Soo.. What about those Maw changes that were supposed to happen?

[Rinaul]

you get access to the maw and sent there as soon as you get max level pretty much, you also do part of maw at the start of level 50 as soon as you go to shadowlands, you also need to do maw to open torghast

Tanaan Jungle

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

If any other big game had a death centric vibe and made a zone you dread going to intentionally to fit thematically... it would receive nothing but praise for the developers “bravery”.

WoW does it and it’s trash. Okay.

Dread going to would be nice. If it was spooky.

The Maw you dread because you just don't care. It's a chore at best.

[Biglog]

Metzen left many years ago, and he was at Blizzcon 2018. The Blizzard folks and he are still on great terms. Blizzard isn't in trouble because finally years later he's starting to work at another company.

Also, nothing in Shadowlands including the Maw was going to be completely redesigned in a 3 week delay. That should go without saying, but for good measure Blizzard also stated that the delay was for polish in the PR. If the delay was long, complain about that. If the delay was short (which it turned out to be), complain not enough was changed. We get the picture.

[Eurhetemec]

I think you got the timeline very wrong there bro

???? How so?

[Vakir]

They evidently thought peppering dailies around the zone rather than just off Ven'ari and rewards being...additional Torghast unlocks/perks bought via Stygia would be enough and uh, it's not.

On the reward side, it's weird; there's like 5 datamined tints for the legendary sets, whose default color can't even be mogged in the first place, plus a bunch of cool Maw-themed weapons that are unobtainable. A bunch of Maw themed combat pets still MIA in terms of places to obtain them. Another recolor of the Mawhound mount with no source. There's all kinds of potential rewards still floating around that could've been put on Ven'ari or various rares.

On the actual content end...yeah, can't help them there. Even if they added more to do, it's just not a great zone inherently. The problem isn't even it being irritating to traverse, like Nazjatar or Argus - it's the fact that all the major combat areas are super cramped so they feel simplistic in engagement and the actual mobs you fight don't do anything particularly interesting. For the most part, even on big named mobs, just varying levels of higher hit points and auto attack/filler spell damage. There's no real variety of environmental threats beyond instant death pits off the side of the world that are binary pass/fail. Unlocking Corridor Creeper didn't make the traversal any less obnoxious, so it's not even a time investment issue, it's just...not engaging.

Eye of the Jailer threats may not be implemented correctly, since "Elite" Assassins are about as easy as normal ones, but generally the Eye threats don't feel like a dynamic adjustment to the zone as they ramp up. They're a minor nuisance at best until the final stage just turns into a bland daily gate.

Hell, even the "lore items" that you can turn into Ven'ari for rep give no actual lore on the damn zone, so we can't even appreciate what Obleron once was or what most things around the Maw are beyond speculation and inference. Whether or not this is to avoid spoilers, it just feels so devoid of fucks to give.

[dcc626]

They evidently thought peppering dailies around the zone rather than just off Ven'ari and rewards being...additional Torghast unlocks/perks bought via Stygia would be enough and uh, it's not.

On the reward side, it's weird; there's like 5 datamined tints for the legendary sets, whose default color can't even be mogged in the first place, plus a bunch of cool Maw-themed weapons that are unobtainable. A bunch of Maw themed combat pets still MIA in terms of places to obtain them. Another recolor of the Mawhound mount with no source. There's all kinds of potential rewards still floating around that could've been put on Ven'ari or various rares.

On the actual content end...yeah, can't help them there. Even if they added more to do, it's just not a great zone inherently. The problem isn't even it being irritating to traverse, like Nazjatar or Argus - it's the fact that all the major combat areas are super cramped so they feel simplistic in engagement and the actual mobs you fight don't do anything particularly interesting. For the most part, even on big named mobs, just varying levels of higher hit points and auto attack/filler spell damage. There's no real variety of environmental threats beyond instant death pits off the side of the world that are binary pass/fail. Unlocking Corridor Creeper didn't make the traversal any less obnoxious, so it's not even a time investment issue, it's just...not engaging.

Eye of the Jailer threats may not be implemented correctly, since "Elite" Assassins are about as easy as normal ones, but generally the Eye threats don't feel like a dynamic adjustment to the zone as they ramp up. They're a minor nuisance at best until the final stage just turns into a bland daily gate.

Hell, even the "lore items" that you can turn into Ven'ari for rep give no actual lore on the damn zone, so we can't even appreciate what Obleron once was or what most things around the Maw are beyond speculation and inference. Whether or not this is to avoid spoilers, it just feels so devoid of fucks to give.

if you havent noticced by now, they arent looking to add substantive loot to things. they arent adding loot drops anywhere extra. you will fight for loot. and people are going to hate it. but its the way it used to be, and evertyone seems to think everything was great, so deal with it.

there were 2 options: add lots of things to do (that people will call necessary and start in on the "too many chores" train) or lerave it how it is, with particular rewards that everyone will want at some point (sockets) that you eventually have no use for.

thats it.

[Vakir]

if you havent noticced by now, they arent looking to add substantive loot to things. they arent adding loot drops anywhere extra. you will fight for loot. and people are going to hate it. but its the way it used to be, and evertyone seems to think everything was great, so deal with it.

Your tone speaks to a defensiveness of the criticism on a personal level.

That being said, the reward side of things is only one paragraph of the above. Even the implementation of the actual gameplay end to get to whatever the inevitable rewards are is lacking, as discussed.

[Cwimge]

There'll be plenty of time for changes in 3 weeks when they announce another delay. Can't let cyberpunk roll in late and steal their precious metrics

[Vakir]

There'll be plenty of time for changes in 3 weeks when they announce another delay. Can't let cyberpunk roll in late and steal their precious metrics

I think they're looking for Nathria/Season 1 unlock to contest that. The 8th vs. the 10th. It's on track for it. More than likely that was the real reason for the delay, since they didn't...really do all that much to the Maw in the first place.

[Osmeric]

am I missing something? what were people expecting?

Fun? You know, that thing we spend the finite and rapidly depleting hours of our lives to experience?

[Daymanmb]

People leave for new challenges, that's life. Sometimes people wake up bored of the routine.

Right, some people, sometimes get bored and move on.. Do you really think the exodus from Blizzard fits that narrative?

[MrLachyG]

Fun? You know, that thing we spend the finite and rapidly depleting hours of our lives to experience?

Running around killing stuff, exploring, gathering stuff isn’t fun?

[gcsmith]

Right, some people, sometimes get bored and move on.. Do you really think the exodus from Blizzard fits that narrative?

More likely than some conspiracy theory. I mean your friend leaves? You realize, hey I too am bored here.

[Doffen]

I'm still not even sure what the point of The Maw (as a zone) is.

To be bored in. Makes the other zones extra more fun!

I said it before. People hate Maw so much that Blizzard are probably thinking its a success. Thats the whole intention! You don't want to spend much time in this pantheon forsaken place!

[gd8]

so far they've changed almost nothing post-delay aside from some minor tuning. why exactly was shadowlands delayed again?

[Hellobolis]

More likely than some conspiracy theory. I mean your friend leaves? You realize, hey I too am bored here.

bit too much info out there to call it a conspiracy theory at this point. it's pretty obvious some execs at activision made a power move at a smart time, it worked, and now were seeing the results. a tale that has happened to many a studio and apparently even blizz isn't immune.

[gcsmith]

so far they've changed almost nothing post-delay aside from some minor tuning. why exactly was shadowlands delayed again?

Well, a bunch of permanent upgrades to the maw/torghast were added to Ven'ari. And we still have time for a couple of major pushes.

[Nyel]

Well, a bunch of permanent upgrades to the maw/torghast were added to Ven'ari. And we still have time for a couple of major pushes.

Two, one next week and one the week after. I don't expect anything besides some more tuning for the next two weeks of beta. And then is launch week.

[Cosmic Janitor]

so far they've changed almost nothing post-delay aside from some minor tuning. why exactly was shadowlands delayed again?

Because leveling was broken in multiple places, as was any semblance of balance on the beta, they are still redesigning covenant abilitites as we speak.

[RoKPaNda]

Even employees that were clearly, lifers? You really think employees with immense security leave to start a new company with mountains of risk involved because "people leave companies"? As a career professional, this statement is nonsense. They left because we can all see the writing on the wall. Blizzard of today is a mere shadow of its former self. WC3: Reforged would never have been released by the old Blizzard.

In this industry, yes. You'd be hard pressed to find any company as old as Blizzard that has more than a couple originals left.