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  1. #1

    i miss the "medieval" fantasy of WoW

    it was only a matter of time before the scale of WoW got bigger and we ended up fighting inter-dimensional demons from outer space, traveling to different planets, and now even going into the afterlife.
    but i miss the grounded sense of medieval fantasy in WoW.
    sword and shields, dragons, magic, and the feel you get from (let's say) classic WoW.

    now.....before anybody says "go play Classic" .... that's not what i'm getting at.
    what i'm getting at is that, as WoW's story continues do you think it will ever be grounded again?
    i thought that BFA was an attempt to do that but looking back we see that wasn't the case.
    the stories lined up to be dealt with in the future point to this scale becoming bigger and more out there.

  2. #2
    Did you not play WC3? In the Undead campaign, Kel'thuzad mentioned how the Legion is an inter-galactic army that ravaged countless worlds. The bulk of the Blood elf campaign took place in the shattered remnants of Draenor, Outlands, which are literally floating in space.

    Medieval fantasy and Cosmic fantasy, castles and spaceships, knights and robots, these things have always coexisted in Warcraft, and this is a fact. The Warcraft franchise stopped being exclusively medieval-themed in WC3, because I can assure you, nothing about this stuff screams "middle ages":

    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-10-31 at 12:41 PM.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Did you not play WC3? In the Undead campaign, Kel'thuzad mentioned how the Legion is an inter-galactic army that ravaged countless worlds. The bulk of the Blood elf campaign took place in the shattered remnants of Draenor, Outlands, which are literally floating in space.

    Medieval fantasy and Cosmic fantasy, castles and spaceships, knights and robots, these things have always coexisted in Warcraft, and this is a fact. The Warcraft franchise stopped being exclusively medieval-themed in WC3, because I can assure you, nothing about this stuff screams "middle ages":


    i've played every Warcraft game since WC1. yes i am aware.
    notice how i said WoW though.
    i'm talking about WoW's story going forward as expansions come out.

  4. #4
    In other words, you miss Warcraft being simplistic enough in order for you to apply your own headcanon that it was a medieval setting. This is neither Tolkien nor is it old school DnD. Even in WC2 it was crystal clear that the setting was in a state of multi-dimensional war.

    In your own words, you want the setting to be "grounded" in order to get it back to the level you can headcanon things. Right now there are so many unresolved cosmic plots, be it the First Ones or Elune or the overarching Light vs Void war.

    Do you think it's fair to put that on hold in order to bring back some fast food "down-to-earth" content about dragons and "plain ol' sword and board"? I guess people saying "go play Classic" is the polite answer.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by HadesBlessYou View Post
    it was only a matter of time before the scale of WoW got bigger and we ended up fighting inter-dimensional demons from outer space, traveling to different planets, and now even going into the afterlife.
    but i miss the grounded sense of medieval fantasy in WoW.
    sword and shields, dragons, magic, and the feel you get from (let's say) classic WoW.

    now.....before anybody says "go play Classic" .... that's not what i'm getting at.
    what i'm getting at is that, as WoW's story continues do you think it will ever be grounded again?
    i thought that BFA was an attempt to do that but looking back we see that wasn't the case.
    the stories lined up to be dealt with in the future point to this scale becoming bigger and more out there.
    I get what you mean. I do. But wow never was that. It felt like this at the start of leveling but it was always bound to end up in space. Hell even the gnomes, goblins and dwarfs in vanilla have been way to advanced to make anything feel medieval. We had planes ffs. Electricity.
    Draenor was originally planed as classic content btw.
    And it is the nature of progression based game to do that. Hell the frist raid we had was the firelord. Where do you go from there? Back to beating defias in the face?
    We literally killed a god in vanilla. If at all the scale went down a bit sometimes.

    tldr: Wow NEVER was only "medival fantasy".

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by HadesBlessYou View Post
    i've played every Warcraft game since WC1. yes i am aware.
    notice how i said WoW though.
    i'm talking about WoW's story going forward as expansions come out.
    Um, it reflects what Warcraft has always been though. There's heavy elements of "medieval" for sure, but Warcraft + WoW has never been solely that.

  7. #7
    Old God Kathranis's Avatar
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    Warcraft's story hasn't really been "grounded" since the the lore was rewritten for WC3, and even in WC1-2 the orcs were alien invaders and there were gnomish flying machines and submarines.

    That being said, the core story and zones of BFA were plenty grounded. As grounded as anything in Classic. Both continents dealt with unifying kingdoms and quelling local threats. Aesthetically it was also pretty low fantasy for the most part. Kul Tiras in particular is full of small hamlets and fortresses.

  8. #8
    "Medieval fantasy" with dreadnoughts, zeppelins, explosive squads, guns, battle mechs? And this is not even WoW, its Warcraft strategy games.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    In other words, you miss Warcraft being simplistic enough in order for you to apply your own headcanon that it was a medieval setting. This is neither Tolkien nor is it old school DnD. Even in WC2 it was crystal clear that the setting was in a state of multi-dimensional war.

    In your own words, you want the setting to be "grounded" in order to get it back to the level you can headcanon things. Right now there are so many unresolved cosmic plots, be it the First Ones or Elune or the overarching Light vs Void war.

    Do you think it's fair to put that on hold in order to bring back some fast food "down-to-earth" content about dragons and "plain ol' sword and board"? I guess people saying "go play Classic" is the polite answer.
    i think you're trying too hard to be sardonic.
    and it is apparent that this thread has triggered you, that somebody could have an opinion as to missing a certain - yet simplistic - aspect of the game and wonder if it will ever return to that, to reply in such a way as to try and argue and prove a point that did not previously exist.
    don't be an internet try hard.
    Last edited by CheckThyself; 2020-10-31 at 01:01 PM.

  10. #10
    I don't think WoW's story will ever be grounded again. Too much has changed and while Blizzard is actively ignoring some parts of the lore they know are hurting immersion because they put a strain on the internal logic of the setting (Vindicaar), we've simply moved too far away from the good old days of early WoW.

    The seeds for this were planted in TBC with all of the "space" stuff surrounding outland and the Draenei retcons but TBC itself was still very tame. Sure, outland was very "alien" and basically floating in space but what we were seeing for the most part was still pretty standard fantasy stuff without anything too fancy.

    It really went off the deep end in Legion when we had demon space ships entering orbit, light powered battle mechs etc. while we're still playing footsoldiers who walk around swinging swords at demon/titan ankles.

    Even BfA with its more grounded setting (in theory) couldn't resist dipping into this stuff. Just look at the battle for Lordaeron. They effectively turned the 'medieval' siege that was teased in the BfA cinematic into a meaningless fight between two women with super weapons. This pretty much perfectly epitomises newer Warcraft lore.

  11. #11
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    I mean, Revendreth has a strong medieval Transylvania vibe.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  12. #12
    I agree OP. But unfortunately I don't think WoW can ever really go back.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by iinverse View Post
    "Medieval fantasy" with dreadnoughts, zeppelins, explosive squads, guns, battle mechs? And this is not even WoW, its Warcraft strategy games.
    Sure, rattly zeppelins and goblin shredders have existed for a long time but the big difference is that those things have never really mattered in the grand scheme of things. These more "weird" parts of Warcraft lore were never there to push any major plot points or have a big impact on the world.

    Just rewatch Warcraft 3's cinematics. They are all about very traditional fantasy characters doing very traditional fantasy things.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by HadesBlessYou View Post
    i think you're trying too hard to be sardonic.
    and it is apparent that this thread has triggered you, that somebody could have an opinion as to missing a certain - yet simplistic - aspect of the game and wonder if it will ever return to that, to reply in such a way as to try and argue and prove a point that did not previously exist.
    don't be an internet try hard.
    I'm triggered because when people saw Outland and hoped for more otherwordly content, people like you tried be vocal and say that WoW is about simplistic fantasy instead. Now that development of the lore shows a more nuanced direction, the same people suddenly miss their echo chamber of traditional fantasy.

    First time I've seen this happen wasn't even in WoW. It was in DnD when it evolved from the basic editions to 4e and 5e. Everytime something evolved out of the Tolkien context, there was "that" vocal group that whined about how it "got too far" or ruined the "traditional feeling".

    All of us have our own prefered fictional setting. If you prefered a simpler time in the lore, you at least need to realize that it was what you liked more and not the "good old days" or that a universe like Warcraft was a true medieval setting.

    There will be simple moments like in BfA with Freehold, but there is no good reason to make an expansion all about that and forcing everyone to the ground just because some feel overwhelmed by cosmic threats being in the scope of the story.

  15. #15
    lol, all the people saying it never was "medieval"
    yes, it always had some technology, but fckn SPACESHIPS and lasers started appearing only since BC. and from then, it only got worse. you didnt see the legion using robots and spaceships in WC3 lmaooo
    it wasnt hardcore grounded like LotR for example, but it most certainly wasnt spaceships, and old god killing laser beams
    the current legion and draenei could almost fit into a sci-fi story
    The crooked shitposter with no eyes is watching from the endless thread.

    From the space that is everywhere and nowhere, the crooked shitposter feasts on memes.

    He has no eyes to see, but he dreams of infinite memeing and trolling.

  16. #16
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    I would say that the medieval fantasy aspect is still there, as exemplified through things like Warfronts.

    What you really miss, I believe, is seeing it applied to stuff that matters. Yes, sword & board action is still there, but while it was still possible to go with it in our past adventures in Azeroth, it stopped being one of the main focuses.

    You can fight the Defias with a mace and a wand, maybe you can fend of Illidan with an axe or a fireball, but you need the help of super-advanced technology, titan relics and various absurd empowerments to take down Argus, and since the game follows a trend of going from big bad to bigger bad, these macguffins will keep popping out and take away from the original underlying tone of mortal solutions for superior threats.

    The only way this could be done would be to revert to simpler enemies, but it would take an effort in storytelling that I am pretty sure Blizzard is incapable of achieving. We already had the Iron Horde as a "normal" enemy after fending off gods and demons, and they were defeated in the pre-patch and they are still regarded as the most laughable opponent that happened in lore.

  17. #17
    I more or less agree with you, OP. I feel like far more nuanced, personal, and detailed stories could be told if they kept the scale contained to what I think you're describing. But Warcraft has always been...nonsense, to be honest. I loved the early rts games for their cheesiness and straightforward plots, but it always bothered me that an army capable of having gunpowder, mages, and flying machines couldn't roflstomp a primitive race of roided up grunts. I say that even as a Horde fan.

    I play WoW because it's fun for the most part, but the story and presentation are definitely the low points imo. I find that universal threats like the Legion were much more terrifying when they weren't quantifiable and more of a broad unknown force/entity. Then we get expansions like Legion where it turns out they're just a joke. This extends to other things like Old Gods, Void Lords, the Jailer, and whatever other bullshit they pull out of their asses to serve as our loot pinatas down the line.

    Warcraft has embraced the Marvel formula of over the top storytelling, so it most definitely will not revert back to simpler times. It will keep aiming for the next big thing, and it will almost certainly get dumber as it goes along.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by HadesBlessYou View Post
    it was only a matter of time before the scale of WoW got bigger and we ended up fighting inter-dimensional demons from outer space, traveling to different planets, and now even going into the afterlife.
    but i miss the grounded sense of medieval fantasy in WoW.
    sword and shields, dragons, magic, and the feel you get from (let's say) classic WoW.

    now.....before anybody says "go play Classic" .... that's not what i'm getting at.
    what i'm getting at is that, as WoW's story continues do you think it will ever be grounded again?
    i thought that BFA was an attempt to do that but looking back we see that wasn't the case.
    the stories lined up to be dealt with in the future point to this scale becoming bigger and more out there.
    I agree with you, even TBC was more sword and sorcery than sci-fi that we have now. I think people are applying retcons to old lore, there was still a major sense of demonic, dark fantasy to the Legion. WoW has skirted the line but has always been more of a fantasy setting. There were hints of sci-fi here and there, crashed spaceship (still a bit powered by magic space chandelier), but up until Legion it was fairly well contained.

    But the cat is out of the bag, and I doubt it will ever go back. Its amazing how grounded Garrosh getting corrupted by a manipulative God and a moving turtle island feels to the spaceships, 18 different kinds of death magic, etc...

  19. #19
    This whole cosmic nu-lore is utter garbage in my opinion. The big bads were always the worst part of WoW's storytelling.

  20. #20
    Warcraft is more Starcraft than it is LoTR. To me personally, I always loved the greater galactic thing about Warcraft. That Azeroth is only one little planet within the great cosmos.

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