1. #65621
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Ayyy they made some Nathria bleed immune to dwarf racials/Kyrian flask.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    I mean, just because the Lich King was "nuanced" and not a generic big bad doesnt mean he was any more interesting than the Jailer or Deathwing or whoever.
    He was more interesting, simply because of us witnessing his rise and fall across games. There was personal attachment there. Meanwhile Deathwing, another well established lore figure was just a "blargh destroy the world" guy. Zero connection, zero understanding of where he is coming from.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2020-11-03 at 08:50 AM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  2. #65622
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    That's not how it works mate. On a basic level. You need to put the other person on ignore. Trying to do it in reverse explains an awful lot about how incredibly bad some of the rationales in your arguments are.
    1) All the arguments I have made are backed by the source material, as I proved many times. No one so far has even managed to disprove a single thing I said. So Yes, I will get angry when someone intentionally cuts my argumentation every time they reply to me just to basically call me a retard.
    2) If the only reason why you reply to someone is to mock them, it is YOU who should put that person on ignore, so that you can try to stop spewing insults left and right. Maybe then you can learn some politeness.
    3) I suppose it's too hard to ask for the people in this thread to NOT mock and use ad-hominems. Good manners are a thing of the real world it seems, not MMO-Champion.

    Tell me, is that hard to say "I understand your point, but I think undead are immune because..." as opposed to "I'm not even going to read your explanation, you clearly don't know anything, you are delusional, bye"? Sometimes I wonder if people on this forum have actual conversations with other people irl...
    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    Ok so nzoth wouldn’t have been able to control the scourge because afaik jailer still controls them after bolvar defeat.

    Interesting that there seems to be a first come first serve control system established.

    Nzoth tried controlling us but the heart possibly a claim on behalf of Azeroth
    I mean if Jailer didn't enter the picture. Once one hivemind is gone, it can be replaced by another. Jailer did it, N'Zoth could too, as well as Yogg-Saron via saronite.

    Jailer didn't even use his link to the Helm to control the Scourge, because it was shattered. He simply did it through sheer willpower.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-11-03 at 09:00 AM.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  3. #65623
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    2) If the only reason why you reply to someone is to mock them, it is YOU who should put that person on ignore, so that you can try to stop spewing insults left and right. Maybe then you can learn some politeness.
    If somebody's issue is a lack of politeness, expecting them to be polite to you is rather silly. The whole point of the ignore function is removing those posts from your view, cutting their ability to insult you.

    You're expecting the horse to not only don its own bridle, but to somehow know where you want the carriage to go as well and to have an interest in bringing you there for no good reason. A horse that has previously proven it doesn't like you and keeps trying to bite you.

  4. #65624
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    If somebody's issue is a lack of politeness, expecting them to be polite to you is rather silly. The whole point of the ignore function is removing those posts from your view, cutting their ability to insult you.

    You're expecting the horse to not only don its own bridle, but to somehow know where you want the carriage to go as well and to have an interest in bringing you there for no good reason. A horse that has previously proven it doesn't like you and keeps trying to bite you.
    Apparently expecting people to act in a polite way with strangers is asking too much.

    This confirms my theory that most people on this forum don't really interact with people irl

    Then again you are guilty of that too. I didn't forget how several times you completely ignored my explanations to belittle my arguments (which you ignored) as nothing more than "nonsense".
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  5. #65625
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    It's my prediction, not your wishlist.

    Tinker is one of most requested classes last few years. Necromancer dream is most likely dead, so they are first choice in expac that would roughly fit them.

    And I would like to hear what's your alternative for so called "borrowed power". No progression at all, just gear? New pernament talents/spell and creating bigger problem 3-4 expacs from now?

    Even then, do you think people would play 1-2 months after launch if you get new stuff after level 60 ding and whole progression was gear from raiding/dungeons/PVP? Maybe people would like it more first month, but after that they would just left just like majority left Classic and a lot of people left WoD.
    Aside from wishlists, I do feel like next expansion is going to be a big surprise. The whole transition into Shadowlands with preservation of development reminds me of how things were with WoD.

    With that being said and the lore hints we have, I expect next expansion to open us up to the greater cosmic war and the borrowed power having to do with earning the boon from more than the Light and Void.

    As for class, I also believe we are due for a Mail/Ranged class. However, I think that the Night Warrior being split into pieces and/or the legacy Sylvanas will leave behind in addition to Alleria's development, a new class that makes most sense would be a modernized/expanded Dark Ranger because of:

    1) Bears a nostalgic, classic name
    2) Has a striking model figure
    3) Cool points for selling
    4) Expresses the theme of "rebelling against the cosmic forces" nicely enough
    5) Blizz wants a new class to be the "portrait" of an expansion. For something as big as the cosmic war, it has to be BIG and flashy
    6) A class like Tinker will indeed only fit something like "rebuilding of Azeroth", which will be a major filler after what fronts we are about to tackle currently

  6. #65626
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    Aside from wishlists, I do feel like next expansion is going to be a big surprise. The whole transition into Shadowlands with preservation of development reminds me of how things were with WoD.

    With that being said and the lore hints we have, I expect next expansion to open us up to the greater cosmic war and the borrowed power having to do with earning the boon from more than the Light and Void.

    As for class, I also believe we are due for a Mail/Ranged class. However, I think that the Night Warrior being split into pieces and/or the legacy Sylvanas will leave behind in addition to Alleria's development, a new class that makes most sense would be a modernized/expanded Dark Ranger because of:

    1) Bears a nostalgic, classic name
    2) Has a striking model figure
    3) Cool points for selling
    4) Expresses the theme of "rebelling against the cosmic forces" nicely enough
    5) Blizz wants a new class to be the "portrait" of an expansion. For something as big as the cosmic war, it has to be BIG and flashy
    6) A class like Tinker will indeed only fit something like "rebuilding of Azeroth", which will be a major filler after what fronts we are about to tackle currently
    i have said it before and i will say it again

    we need a dragon knight/scale warden and after the shadowlands i can see it happening

    we have the scarlet crusade returning
    we have the hint that more than just 2 black dragons exist and the only thing that can make us stronger than covenant blessing is titanic blessings which is essentially the aspects.

    Naga queen aint dead yet
    quest line hints via the islands including but not limited to elemental problems and dragon isles location

    fits the filler expansion role
    "BfA wasn't filler"
    wasn't it??
    was it not??
    it was at best a prequel expansion to simply bridge legion and SL

    Dragon isles will be a filler leading to the big war

    - - - Updated - - -

    so has anyone ran into this yet

    blizzard flagged my account for beta twice so i technically have 2 accounts
    the first one is where ive had all my testing and everything done and up until earlier last week i was able to use the test discussion channel no problem and now it requires a password to join even though it says im in the channel

    other account it works just fine

  7. #65627
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    "BfA wasn't filler"
    wasn't it??
    was it not??
    it was at best a prequel expansion to simply bridge legion and SL
    How was any of it filler? It deals with the fourth war, establishes more racial connections(allied races), fully introduces Azshara into WoW(Cata dungeon is past Azshara), and we finally defeat N'Zoth.
    Goodbye-Forever-MMO-Champ
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Alleria's whispers start climaxing

  8. #65628
    BfA was not filler. Filler is when you can completely cut that particular storyline from the overarching story and nothing would change.

    WoD is filler, as you can completely remove it and still make the overarching story work. Garrosh dies at the end of SoO or at the Pandaria trial, and the Legion's return is ushered in not by Gul'dan, but by another powerful warlock (a traitor of the Warlock council or a completely new character altogether). Even the Lightbound Yrel set-up might feel redundant now that we have Turalyon and Calia in positions of power, as well as Xe'ra still lurking around and recovering in the Light realm.

    BfA is not filler. Legion Sylvanas would have lost to Bolvar, as she lacked the massive power boost she got from the Burning of Teldrassil and Fourth War. All that bloodshed gave Sylvanas the power boost she needed to defeat Bolvar and usher in Shadowlands.

    BfA is also not filler because of the whole N'Zoth storyline. This is self-explanatory. No matter how disappointing the Ny'alotha raid might have felt, the ramifications of N'Zoth's defeat are massive, as the last of the Old Gods is vanquished, finally freeing Azeroth of the Old Gods after eons of corruption. This absolutely CANNOT be ignored. As well, the Ny'alotha raid is the climax of the Old Gods story arc that had started in Classic, and intensified in Cataclysm. This is the first and only time so far that we have fought a fully-released Old God in his prime. This is simply not ignorable.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-11-03 at 01:58 PM.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  9. #65629
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    How was any of it filler? It deals with the fourth war, establishes more racial connections(allied races), fully introduces Azshara into WoW(Cata dungeon is past Azshara), and we finally defeat N'Zoth.
    in terms of the overall story it has had 0 impact outside of the addition of the allied races and the continuation of the sylvanas story from legion stormheim

    horde and alliance are in the same spot as they were at the end of legion...allies kinda.
    the only character changes happening is the leadership changes which could be explained in a pre expansion questline
    we had a patch with the naga and the final OG which have had 0 effect on the story...again

    you could argue that if we did not fight the naga or nzoth the end of the expansion would be the same with sylvanas serving the jailer and the horde as a council

    as for n'zoth...we literally knew nothing of his existence in game until 8.3 outside of "he exists somewhere" and his interaction with us is now done because he isn't seen in shadowlands and again if he did not exist then the story wouldn't have changed.

    Think about it like WoD
    The horde going in and coming out are the same
    the characters have had minimal change
    the story could literally be skipped and you can bridge MoP to Legion with the only plothole being where Guldan came from but that can be explained away the same way the demons could be and even mention it in the tomb raid

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    BfA was not filler. Filler is when you can completely cut that particular storyline from the overarching story and nothing would change.

    WoD is filler, as you can completely remove it and still make the overarching story work. Garrosh dies at the end of SoO or at the Pandaria trial, and the Legion's return is ushered in not by Gul'dan, but by another powerful warlock (a traitor of the Warlock council or a completely new character altogether). Even the Lightbound Yrel set-up might feel redundant now that we have Turalyon and Calia in positions of power, as well as Xe'ra still lurking around and recovering in the Light realm.

    BfA is not filler. Legion Sylvanas would have lost to Bolvar, as she lacked the massive power boost she got from the Burning of Teldrassil and Fourth War. All that bloodshed gave Sylvanas the power boost she needed to defeat Bolvar and usher in Shadowlands.

    BfA is also not filler because of the whole N'Zoth storyline. This is self-explanatory. No matter how disappointing the Ny'alotha raid might have felt, the ramifications of N'Zoth's defeat are massive, as the last of the Old Gods is vanquished, finally freeing Azeroth of the Old Gods after eons of corruption. This absolutely CANNOT be ignored. As well, the Ny'alotha raid is the climax of the Old Gods story arc that had started in Classic, and intensified in Cataclysm. This is the first and only time so far that we have fought a fully-released Old God in his prime. This is simply not ignorable.
    as far as we know the jailer gave her that power as a reward for the actions in the 4th war
    You can absolutely ignore 8.3 because like it has been shown in the game previously...death doesn't stop the old gods or even their minions (we will see a return)

    has the overall world changed from the end of legion?? yes
    kul tiras and zandalar are now members of the faction

    the faction war really change anything??
    not really as you can explain the tree burning in a quest where sylvanas gets kicked

    like take the 8.0 prepatch quest and add in the saurfang stuff through a single quest line then go into shadowlands and BOOM

  10. #65630
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    Think about it like WoD
    The horde going in and coming out are the same
    the characters have had minimal change
    the story could literally be skipped and you can bridge MoP to Legion with the only plothole being where Guldan came from but that can be explained away the same way the demons could be and even mention it in the tomb raid
    This is the only part of your reply that makes sense. I really can't understand your view on this at all and I doubt I will.
    Goodbye-Forever-MMO-Champ
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Alleria's whispers start climaxing

  11. #65631
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    BfA was not filler. Filler is when you can completely cut that particular storyline from the overarching story and nothing would change.

    WoD is filler, as you can completely remove it and still make the overarching story work. Garrosh dies at the end of SoO or at the Pandaria trial, and the Legion's return is ushered in not by Gul'dan, but by another powerful warlock (a traitor of the Warlock council or a completely new character altogether). Even the Lightbound Yrel set-up might feel redundant now that we have Turalyon and Calia in positions of power, as well as Xe'ra still lurking around and recovering in the Light realm.

    BfA is not filler. Legion Sylvanas would have lost to Bolvar, as she lacked the massive power boost she got from the Burning of Teldrassil and Fourth War. All that bloodshed gave Sylvanas the power boost she needed to defeat Bolvar and usher in Shadowlands.

    BfA is also not filler because of the whole N'Zoth storyline. This is self-explanatory. No matter how disappointing the Ny'alotha raid might have felt, the ramifications of N'Zoth's defeat are massive, as the last of the Old Gods is vanquished, finally freeing Azeroth of the Old Gods after eons of corruption. This absolutely CANNOT be ignored. As well, the Ny'alotha raid is the climax of the Old Gods story arc that had started in Classic, and intensified in Cataclysm. This is the first and only time so far that we have fought a fully-released Old God in his prime. This is simply not ignorable.
    BFA is not filler.

    It is just poorly told story that that ruined massive and plot threads decades in the making.

  12. #65632
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    You want a generic big bad with no nuance, that spews same generic villain lines? Was Amon from Starcraft 2 that appealing? Or C'thun/Yogg with their "All will be consumed"?
    Cause the idea that a more simple villain is bad writing or just boring is stupid. "Boring, Generic" are words that are over used in this community way too much. People love to moan. There's a decent appeal to a force that can't be reasoned with or just doesn't care.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

    Warrior-Magi

  13. #65633
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    in terms of the overall story it has had 0 impact outside of the addition of the allied races and the continuation of the sylvanas story from legion stormheim

    horde and alliance are in the same spot as they were at the end of legion...allies kinda.
    the only character changes happening is the leadership changes which could be explained in a pre expansion questline
    we had a patch with the naga and the final OG which have had 0 effect on the story...again

    you could argue that if we did not fight the naga or nzoth the end of the expansion would be the same with sylvanas serving the jailer and the horde as a council

    as for n'zoth...we literally knew nothing of his existence in game until 8.3 outside of "he exists somewhere" and his interaction with us is now done because he isn't seen in shadowlands and again if he did not exist then the story wouldn't have changed.

    Think about it like WoD
    The horde going in and coming out are the same
    the characters have had minimal change
    the story could literally be skipped and you can bridge MoP to Legion with the only plothole being where Guldan came from but that can be explained away the same way the demons could be and even mention it in the tomb raid

    - - - Updated - - -



    as far as we know the jailer gave her that power as a reward for the actions in the 4th war
    You can absolutely ignore 8.3 because like it has been shown in the game previously...death doesn't stop the old gods or even their minions (we will see a return)

    has the overall world changed from the end of legion?? yes
    kul tiras and zandalar are now members of the faction

    the faction war really change anything??
    not really as you can explain the tree burning in a quest where sylvanas gets kicked

    like take the 8.0 prepatch quest and add in the saurfang stuff through a single quest line then go into shadowlands and BOOM
    Teldrassil is destroyed, hard to just ignore that aspect. Same with Undercity.
    The Alliance now most likely controls Lordaeron again, Stromgarde is rebuilt. Various Allied races have joined the Alliance and Horde.
    Kul Tiras has rejoined the Alliance, and the Zanadalari have joined the Horde.
    The fallout from Sargeras plunging his hot blade into Azeroth have mostly been nullified, at least enough that it doesnt warrant being mentioned.
    N'zoth is seemingly defeated, same with the Naga. N'zoth is likely still somehow active and Azshara is still definitely alive, but they no longer seem to have the power they once posessed.

    There is simply too much important stuff that has happened to simply brush it under the carpet. The only real thing of significance that happened in WoD that warranted explaining was Gul'dan being brouht over, which could have been replaced with anything. Garrosh and his fight with Thrall which didnt add to anything except tie up the loose end. And Maraad dying, which is likely the only plotpoint from WoD that has repercussions for the story going forward, and even that is never mentioned.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  14. #65634
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    Think about it like WoD
    The horde going in and coming out are the same
    the characters have had minimal change
    the story could literally be skipped and you can bridge MoP to Legion with the only plothole being where Guldan came from but that can be explained away the same way the demons could be and even mention it in the tomb raid
    MoP had pretty good setup going for Legion.

    For the whole expansion Wrathion was worrying about the return of the Legion and dropped hints about the fate of the titans.

    Gul'Dan could have been replaced by some of the Warlicks in the Green Fire questline. They could have made that a Burning Legion B-plot open for all classes (with possible extra bosses for Warlocks to get the Green Fire) and made those characters succumb to the Legion and act as catalysts opening the portal at Broken Shore.

    And with that, a natural transition from MoP to Legion, with none of that Timey Wimey movie promotion in between.

  15. #65635
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Cause the idea that a more simple villain is bad writing or just boring is stupid. "Boring, Generic" are words that are over used in this community way too much. People love to moan. There's a decent appeal to a force that can't be reasoned with or just doesn't care.
    Even as someone who doesn't particularly care about the story one way or another, I'm kinda tired of every expansions final boss being some dude with a super deep voice talking about the end of the world Only differences between Kelthuzad/Illidan+Kiljaeden/Lich King/Deathwing/Garrosh/Archimonde/Argus/Nzoth from a design POV were visual. Obviously the stories of why we fought them were different, but yeah, the idea of another one of these final villains ain't filling me with much excitement in all honesty.

    (That said, if the combat is good & the encounter is enjoyable, I don't care if we fight a glowy cube with arms sticking out).

  16. #65636
    If Turalyon and/or Alleria ever become main villains, I hope what defines them the most is not their cosmic powers, but their good intentions. They are good people who only want the best for the world and mankind, so hopefully they don't suffer the fate that Kael'thas or Vashj suffered in TBC or Ner'zhul suffered in WoD. We've had enough wasted villains.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  17. #65637
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Cause the idea that a more simple villain is bad writing or just boring is stupid. "Boring, Generic" are words that are over used in this community way too much. People love to moan. There's a decent appeal to a force that can't be reasoned with or just doesn't care.
    More simple shouldn't mean shallow. Look how many superior beings spewing "all will die" one liners we had in WoW. And some of them were well established characters. This time we got a newcomer. And Jailer is not a force you can't reason with, seeing that Sylvi made a deal with him
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  18. #65638
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    More simple shouldn't mean shallow. Look how many superior beings spewing "all will die" one liners we had in WoW. And some of them were well established characters. This time we got a newcomer. And Jailer is not a force you can't reason with, seeing that Sylvi made a deal with him
    Between the Jailer dragging Wrath Sylvanas to the Maw, where she likely wasn't supposed to go, and tethering her to the Valkyr, it's looking more like he "owns" Sylvanas and she's convinced herself that's fine as long as she can break the universe for him so that everyone can be on her level.

    The parallel of him being a "Lich King" will be complete if the Jailer wears his own version of the HoD, which is looking very likely based on his armor.

    Considering how he operates the Jailer seems much more akin to some kind of Pimp or criminal mastermind (note how he has a "gang" instead of just an army) than he does a military general like Sargeras or a spooky sorcerer like most of the other WoW villains. I think it differentiates him.
    Last edited by Nagawithlegs; 2020-11-03 at 03:49 PM.

  19. #65639
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Apparently expecting people to act in a polite way with strangers is asking too much.
    Expecting politeness from people with which your main beef is a lack of politeness is just plain irrational.

    This confirms my theory that most people on this forum don't really interact with people irl
    That's a hypothesis, not a theory. It's also not really confirmed by this, since there's plenty of real people in real world situations that can't manage to be polite to anybody, strangers included. Reportedly, one of them is a head of state.

    Then again you are guilty of that too. I didn't forget how several times you completely ignored my explanations to belittle my arguments (which you ignored) as nothing more than "nonsense".
    I fail to see how that has anything to do with politeness. Unless you define polite as "immediately conceding to me in a discussion".

  20. #65640
    The Jailer being a boring villain is not a problem so long as Sylvanas sticks around till the end. She has enough hate behind her and enough buildup to carry pretty muc hthe entire expansion alone as far as being villainous goes, the Jailer can just be the powerhouse behind her giving her power and being the ultimate antagonist.

    If Sylvanas dies or is removed early on though then the Jailer being boring becomes a problem. Obviously the investment players have in a story doesnt end when the most interesting character dies or is removed necessarily, usually it can coast a bit on the momentum given by the preceding events, but for a game like WoW that takes over a year to see from start to finish having some driving force is necessary, otherwise the players will lose interest, not necessarily leaving, but having less investment in what happens.

    Consider for instnace how BfA ended with N'zoth. N'zoth is interesting and has some story behind him, but not enough so to overshadow the fact that when Sylvanas disappeared the expansion lost steam quickly.
    Quality of Ny'alotha as a raid aside, how many felt that specific satisfaction you get from finishing a good story when N'zoth was defeated?



    So in short: The Jailer can be boring, but only if someone else can carry the investment from the players, which right now is Sylvanas.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

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