SPOILERS: Shadowlands Lore Thread

[rainhard]

Also let's not forget Odyns Val'kyr are based off the kyrian and have the ability to travel and interact with both realms so it wouldn't be far fetched that the kyrian can too.

[tommyhil622]

Also let's not forget Odyns Val'kyr are based off the kyrian and have the ability to travel and interact with both realms so it wouldn't be far fetched that the kyrian can too.

The Kyrians definitely travel between the two realms all the time. This is pretty clear in the beta. They even address the spirit healer stuff in a quest where you literally have a sipirt healer in Redridge. The facts are these:

1 - Kyrians ferry souls from the mortal realms of the living into the shadowlands. That's their job.

2 - The Spirit healers are also Kyrians and they spend most of their time outside of the shadowlands.

[bagina]

Hey, who is this guy? Have we seen him before?

[Aucald]

Hey, who is this guy? Have we seen him before?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/El6yd2JX...name=4096x4096

Looks like the humanoid aspect of a Constellar.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

I just realize we'll be taking a soul from Shadowlands anywhere we go in Azeroth+ beyond: Blanchy.

[tommyhil622]

Looks like the humanoid aspect of a Constellar.

That's Harbaron no? He's a Helarjar. Constellar's don't have flesh/skin

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Imo that guy is just like Harbaron another Heyla Servant.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

That's Harbaron no? He's a Helarjar. Constellar's don't have flesh/skin

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Imo that guy is just like Harbaron another Heyla Servant.

Everything about him hints at him being a Constellar.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Harbaron

The mysterious ferryman of souls stands at the helm of the Naglfar, gathering the damned and bringing them to Helya's domain. His connection with the fallen queen of the val'kyr is unclear, but when the breeze catches Harbaron's cloak, an expanse of shimmering stars unfolds beneath. Strange.

Xal'atath "It was thought his kind was incorruptible. A lesson from my brothers I suppose."

And he share's Algalon's basic model.

[tommyhil622]

Everything about him hints at him being a Constellar.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Harbaron


And he share's Algalon's basic model.

Harbaron isn't a Constellar lol. He was a mob in the Maw of Souls in Legion.... Servant of Heyla.

Only thing about him (the guy in the cinematic) that shares with a Agalon is his silhouette, but Constellars are transparent and have no flesh. They more akin to constructs than flesh than bone.

Hell i would say he looks more like Aman'Thul than anything else.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Harbaron isn't a Constellar lol. He was a mob in the Maw of Souls in Legion.... Servant of Heyla.

Only thing about him (the guy in the cinematic) that shares with a Agalon is his silhouette, but Constellars are transparent and have no flesh. They more akin to constructs than flesh than bone.

Did you not read the quotes I posted? Why would Harbaron have "an expanse of shimmering stars unfolds beneath" under his cloak? Algalon has shown to be incorruptible by being the only thing in Ulduar not under the Old God's influence. He could easily be a Constellar charged under Odyn who broke off with Heyla. Titan Constructs were meant to made out of stone but they turned to flesh when cursed. Almost everything the Titan's touched have turned to flesh, such as Orcs.

Hell i would say he looks more like Aman'Thul than anything else.

Isn't that more proof considering Constellars are created by the Titans?

[Aucald]

That's Harbaron no? He's a Helarjar. Constellar's don't have flesh/skin

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Imo that guy is just like Harbaron another Heyla Servant.

Harbaron is believed to be a Constellar, not simply a normal Helarjar. One somehow subverted or corrupted by the Old Gods.

[Darknessvamp]

So something twigged in my head a while ago and I've spent some time searching around to see if it's been brought up whether as a question or thread topic anywhere for something so obviously in our face but seemingly contradictory. First let's go over some "set" things:

• So we've been told that sometime during the events of Legion the "Machine of Death" of the Shadowlands broke (presumably sometime after the Emerald Nightmare raid due to Ysera and Ursoc) as a result the Arbiter went kaput and all the souls of people who have been killed or died since were being funneled into the Maw aside from special cases like Bwonsamdi diverting Troll souls.
• We've also been told that souls that end up in the Maw are unable to escape from there, barring a Maw Walker striding in and acting as a taxi service.
• Lastly during the events of BfA there were few characters that were brought back from the dead and of particular interest were Night Elves that were killed during the attack on Darkshore at the start of the expansion who presumably would have had their souls end up in the Maw along with the rest as per what we have been told.
• Although it's also been revealed that the Val'kyr that have been bound to Sylvanas since WotLK and that Nathanos used to bring back the Night Elves have some form of connection to the Jailer so it could be excused as being possible due to some sort of loop hole due to that connection, not to mention that Sira Moonwarden who was also raised at the same time had only just been killed so it could be explained as her soul having not had a chance to be brought to the Shadowlands.

Now what twigged in my head which set me off on my initial confusion and search for clarification was The Gathering, in particular the fact the event takes place quite some time after the events of Legion. So if the "machine of death" broke sometime during Legion and souls were ending up in the Maw not long after, it can be assumed that when the Gathering takes place it is happening sometime after that had started right? Especially with how not long after the attack on Darnassus happens and Sylvanas is supposed to be working in the Jailer's favor by delivering a bunch of souls to the Maw per Shadowlands "revelations" of what was really happening. So of particular note what takes place at The Gathering is the death of Calia Menethil after she has the bright idea to 'royally' screw everything up, then several days later she is raised as a Lightrisen Undead by Anduin, Faol and Saa’ra at Netherlight Temple.

Simple question, How.
If everything we've been told is right her death should have taken place during the time souls were being funneled into the Maw, additionally we've been told souls should be incapable of leaving the Maw. Not to mention with the added information that the Light doesn't have a big presence in the Shadowlands apart from a small part of Revendreth as an invading force. So frankly how was her soul able to escape the Maw and be light risen?
Or are we in for a revelation that this isn't actually Calia at all?

[tommyhil622]

Did you not read the quotes I posted? Why would Harbaron have "an expanse of shimmering stars unfolds beneath" under his cloak? Algalon has shown to be incorruptible by being the only thing in Ulduar not under the Old God's influence. He could easily be a Constellar charged under Odyn who broke off with Heyla. Titan Constructs were meant to made out of stone but they turned to flesh when cursed. Almost everything the Titan's touched have turned to flesh, such as Orcs.



Isn't that more proof considering Constellars are created by the Titans?

Sorry i re-read the quote and sure there's hints for Harbaron to be a Constellar, but he is no the one in the video.

All i'm trying to say the guy that we see might just be a Helarjar, whether he's like Harbaron remains to be seen.

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Harbaron is believed to be a Constellar, not simply a normal Helarjar. One somehow subverted or corrupted by the Old Gods.

Yea the adventure guide points to it seems but still not super concerte imo. But when comparing him to the new guy, we have almost nothing to stand on but i guess anything is possible.

I still think the new guy is just another Helarjar who may or may not be a Constellar.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Sorry i re-read the quote and sure there's hints for Harbaron to be a Constellar, but he is no the one in the video.

All i'm trying to say the guy that we see might just be a Helarjar, whether he's like Harbaron remains to be seen.

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Yea the adventure guide points to it seems but still not super concerte imo. But when comparing him to the new guy, we have almost nothing to stand on but i guess anything is possible.

I still think the new guy is just another Helarjar who may or may not be a Constellar.

Yeah I have zero idea about the guy in the video. I think it just might be a random boss in Torghast.

[tommyhil622]

Yeah I have zero idea about the guy in the video. I think it just might be a random boss in Torghast.

Yea it's possible. It is interesting they chose to show him now. I haven't seen him in Torghast yet during my play through of the Beta. He may be reserved for the live release.

What about you? @Aucald

[luigisp]

Hey, who is this guy? Have we seen him before?

Where did you get this image / screenshot?

[bagina]

Where did you get this image / screenshot?

It's from the Maw showcase video. 0:49

[MikeBogina]

Simple question, How.
If everything we've been told is right her death should have taken place during the time souls were being funneled into the Maw, additionally we've been told souls should be incapable of leaving the Maw. Not to mention with the added information that the Light doesn't have a big presence in the Shadowlands apart from a small part of Revendreth as an invading force. So frankly how was her soul able to escape the Maw and be light risen?
Or are we in for a revelation that this isn't actually Calia at all?

So something I've been saying on here for years and I think it's starting to be proven right is that those who are resurrected are not their trueselves. Almost everyone who's been resurrected through necromancy that has then gained freedom, is still a dick. Even people who haven't even died, but are heavily influenced like Bolvar are DICKs. Sally Whitemane for instance, is clearly not the same one that was alive.

So these "Shades" take over, they think they're the real ones while the real ones might be in there somewhere watching or they might not be there at all. So separating the jerkversions, the same thing might and should apply to being resurrected through the light. Anduin canonizes light resurrection in the book by saying people are brought back, but it's gotta be soon, however everyone who's read the book believes she's undead, not just resurrected. So if she's "Undead" then the shade theory should apply to her and it may also explain her weird personality, just like necromancy(maw power) explains the more evil attitude, the Light-Necromancy explains her... body snatcher personality and drone like devotion to light.

Now we already have a good example of Akama, if you played a DemonHunter who picks the Shade, you basically create a shade of Akama and it's weird, but canon. But a newer example is that Arthas with his maw sword, claimed Uther's Soul, but the Light was able to basically make a double of it and send it to the afterlife. Kinda the opposite, but still... the light was able to take a soul that was destined to a mini-maw(Frostmourne) and splinter it and send it to somewhere else.

And because Blizzard explained that all versions of a soul merge, the real Calia from our timeline has probably merged with her countless other souls, while a fake who thinks she's the real one walks among us

or you know, im 100% wrong and Blizzard just goofed on this one

[bagina]

So something I've been saying on here for years and I think it's starting to be proven right is that those who are resurrected are not their trueselves. Almost everyone who's been resurrected through necromancy that has then gained freedom, is still a dick. Even people who haven't even died, but are heavily influenced like Bolvar are DICKs. Sally Whitemane for instance, is clearly not the same one that was alive.

I mean, it's an absolute fact that undeath permanently changes you. Countless quests with forsaken have talked about this, being turned undead kills parts of your humanity, it changes your perception and sensibilities. Forsaken got their free will back but the undead curse and broken psyche remain forever.

[Aucald]

Yea it's possible. It is interesting they chose to show him now. I haven't seen him in Torghast yet during my play through of the Beta. He may be reserved for the live release.

What about you? Aucald

No, I hadn't seen him - I'm assuming he's part of some later activity in Torghast as well, probably something not in the Beta yet. Perhaps he's a new model replacing some of the current placeholders in the Maw and/or Torghast, as well.

[Alanar]

Also let's not forget Odyns Val'kyr are based off the kyrian and have the ability to travel and interact with both realms so it wouldn't be far fetched that the kyrian can too.

Its a shame they didnt went on with the whole Val kyr thing.

I mean.... Valkyr-----> kyrian aka blue humans.

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No, I hadn't seen him - I'm assuming he's part of some later activity in Torghast as well, probably something not in the Beta yet. Perhaps he's a new model replacing some of the current placeholders in the Maw and/or Torghast, as well.

I have seen the guy.. hes somewhat of a boss. I think I got to him in one of the later floors.

He didnt do anything special and just served as a mini boss between floors.
I completed all of the floor on the most left door when you enter thorghast.

Hes appearance is cool.. maybe he will do more in the future.

Edit: He did like 1 attack that somewhat hurt, but can be interrupted. Forgot the name of the spell.