Upgrading oldy PC - advice on what to replace

[Nutri]

Hi all.

My 2014 rig is starting to show it's age. Some games still play fine on higher resolutions, others are starting to be quite taxing on the rig.

The current setup:

Corsair Obsidian 450D case
Gigabyte G1.Sniper Z97
Intel Core i7 4770K
Crucial DDR3 Ballistix Sport 4x4GB 1600 C9
Netzteil EVGA 850W NOVA 850 G2 (80+Gold) PSU
2x Sapphire R9 290 4GB GDDR5 OC TRI-X in crossfire
Scythe Mugen 4 PCGH Edition cpu cooler
Crucial SSD MX100 512GB
Samsung 860 EVO 1TB SSD

I'm keeping my screens for now (1080p). What I don't want is going into crossfire/sli ever again, so I'll be looking at just a single solid gpu. Doesn't have to be a 3080 if a 3070 is enough for what I'm looking to get out of a pc. I'm guessing I can keep the PSU, the case and the SSD's. I am not sure about the motherboard, that might bottleneck newer tech.

My aim: I'm not really looking into 4k gaming right now but I just want games to not dip bellow 60fps on the highest (realistic) graphical setting. Next to that, I'd prefer having a system that would last me another 5+ years just as this system did. Making it 4k proof wouldn't hurt.

For reference, some of the games I'd be playing; WoW, Doom Eternal, Far Cry 5/6, The Division 2, Satisfactory

The budget? Ideally around 1500-1800 euro's.

Thanks in advance.

edit; (oops, oldy / oldie)

[Paperfox]

My computer was about 9-10 years old, and it was showing its age after I upgraded from Win7. I replaced my video card, and that had a very small positive impact on performance. I ended up replacing the mobo, cpu & memory. After those, now my pc is working as desired.

I would suggest bleeding edge - as opposed to cutting edge. Which is a step or two down from cutting edge. You save a lot of money, and sometimes you won't notice. Numbers on a graph imply huge advantages, but can you really notice them? What would the percentage change be? going from 78% to 93% is noticeable, but from 93.789% to 93.825% is not.

[derius]

Here is what I would advice

• 0€ Case: Stay with yours - seems ok for housing a new build
• 0€ SSD: (might want to check health with Crystal Disk Info, the MX100 seems very old)
  (120€ SSD: Western Digital WD Black SN750 NVMe SSD 1TB, M.2 (WDS100T3X0C-00SJG0))
• 0€ PSU: Stay with yours - don't know how old it really is, but never the less it seems solid
• 160€ Motherboard: Gigabyte B550 Aorus Pro
  or
• 180€ Motherboard: MSI MPG B550 Gaming Carbon WIFI (7C91-002R)
• 550€ CPU:AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12C/24T (100-100000061WOF)
• 50€ Cooler: Scythe Ninja 5 (SCNJ-5000)
• 170€ RAM: 2x G.Skill RipJaws V schwarz DIMM Kit 16GB, DDR4-3600, CL16 (F4-3600C16D-16GVKC)
• 650€ GPU: AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT

--------------------------------
1700€ total with SSD

Reasoning behind some choises:

• SSD: m.2 NVMe SSDs are state of the art and the pricing is very close to SATA SSDs; never the less PCIe 4 SSDs are not worth the extra, since the numbers just show in huge file writes/reads, game & OS loading is just 0.x seconds faster , so not worth the extra
• Motherboard: both boards are sub 200€ and have solid VRMs and nice RAM OC capabilites
• CPU: 12 Cores are the new way to go, if you want only 6 or 8 cores you could go Intel 8th or 9th Gen from years ago ;P
• Cooler: Seems like the highest performer sub 60€ that fits in your current case
• RAM: I pers. close to be limited with 16GB and with new games on the horizon (e.g. Godfall which wants 16GB for its own!) 32GB is the new way to go. Additionally, 3600 will be the best price/performance for Ryzen 5xxxx as well
• GPU: even if the rtx38080 and the 6800xt are head-to-head , an "all AMD" gives the 6800xt a little additional boost

[Thunderball]

I'm keeping my screens for now (1080p). What I don't want is going into crossfire/sli ever again, so I'll be looking at just a single solid gpu. Doesn't have to be a 3080 if a 3070 is enough for what I'm looking to get out of a pc. I'm guessing I can keep the PSU, the case and the SSD's. I am not sure about the motherboard, that might bottleneck newer tech.

You would have to buy a 3070/3080 or AMD equivalents and this point if you want to upgrade.

My aim: I'm not really looking into 4k gaming right now but I just want games to not dip bellow 60fps on the highest (realistic) graphical setting. Next to that, I'd prefer having a system that would last me another 5+ years just as this system did. Making it 4k proof wouldn't hurt.

That might be impossible right now.

I'd say get a good GPU and see how it looks. Overall I would advice waiting for at least 4 months. Shipping delays are brutal right now, the prices for everything are skyrocketting, new stuff is not in stock. I'm not saying it will get any better in 4 months but at least the holiday season would be over.

[LordTakeo]

Jesus, why are you guys recommending 5900xt cpu's?
That's something I'd recommend people who wish to render stuff, not players. Get a ryzen 5 5600 or if you wanna be fancy, ryzen 7 5700.
I use 3700x and I never even get to use half of its power during heavy gaming. And that's with two screens running programs.


Get 2x 16gb ddr4 3200 ram. Anything above 3200 frequency is inefficient and too expensive for the little benefit it gives you.

Gigabyte B550 or X570 Aorus is the choice you wanna take for now, choose whichever is the cheapest for you.

And a GPU, aka graphics card, is dependant on what screen you WISH to take. I'd definitely recommend the most recent series of AMD or Nvidia, maybe the rtx 3070, or the price equivalent from AMD once it's releasing.


The rest of your PC seems fine, an additional SSD wouldn't hurt though. With the new motherboard you can take an m.2 ssd, which is a bit cut above the rest. You'll be fine playing anything on 1440p 120fps easily with these changes. 4k isn't our of reach either.

Motherboard - 140 ish
Cpu - fluctuating
Gpu - 400~500ish
Ram - 100ish

[Shakadam]

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3.8 GHz 8-Core Processor (€470.00)
Motherboard: Asus TUF GAMING B550-PLUS ATX AM4 Motherboard (€128.89 @ Alza)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory (€151.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €750.79
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-11-04 15:48 CET+0100

You could go with a Ryzen 5600X and save ~170€ but that will probably hurt you if you want to keep the PC for 5+ years. Spending ~100€ more for a 5900X is honestly not a bad idea either and would probably still fit in your budget.

You CPU cooler is still perfectly fine, you can get a AM4 mounting bracket for a few € if you contact Scythe EU support.
Case, PSU, SSD's can all be re-used.

GPU is difficult to say right now. Everything is out of stock and pricing is all over the place. I would suggest you try to pick up a RX 6800XT on 18th November, if they actually sell at MSRP initially, they should come out around 650 - 700€.

This all would be drastically overkill for 1080p gaming, but would work very well for an upgrade to 4K gaming.

[Temp name]

I'd probably start by getting a new GPU, and see if that's enough for you. A 4770k should be decent for most gaming needs. Get a 3070 if you can, or a used 2080ti if you can't (they should be about the same price, at least in US markets, probably the same on EU ones?). Or if you want new and can't get a 3070, then a 6800 non-XT on the 18th. But you need to be fast, they're probably running out of stock in minutes or hours

If you aren't satisfied with that performance, then upgrade your CPU to a 5600x (Or again, if you can't get one, then a 5800x, but that's probably out of stock too, so a 3600 non-x/3700x), with a B450/B550 board and some 3600C16 RAM.

Jesus, why are you guys recommending 5900xt cpu's?

What do you mean "you guys"? It's 1 guy with 6 posts. Or Shaka suggesting it as an upgrade because "might as well"

[Shakadam]

A 4770k should be decent for most gaming needs.

Ahh, I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. Maybe if you manage to OC it to the max and coupled with very fast RAM it could still be somewhat decent but OP really has no hope with that 1600Mhz RAM.

Last year I upgraded from a Xeon E3-1231v3, which is essentially a i7-4770K minus 100Mhz, and 1600Mhz Ram to a Ryzen 3600 and 3733Mhz RAM. The difference was very very noticeable even at 1440p gaming and should be even more noticeable at 1080p gaming. Also bear in mind I still use a Vega 56 so anything like a 3070, 3080 etc would just be enormously bottlenecked by a 4770K with rather slow RAM.

[Temp name]

Ahh, I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. Maybe if you manage to OC it to the max and coupled with very fast RAM it could still be somewhat decent but OP really has no hope with that 1600Mhz RAM.

Last year I upgraded from a Xeon E3-1231v3, which is essentially a i7-4770K minus 100Mhz, and 1600Mhz Ram to a Ryzen 3600 and 3733Mhz RAM. The difference was very very noticeable even at 1440p gaming and should be even more noticeable at 1080p gaming. Also bear in mind I still use a Vega 56 so anything like a 3070, 3080 etc would just be enormously bottlenecked by a 4770K with rather slow RAM.

He said he doesn't want to drop below 60fps, so it's probably a 60hz monitor. A 4770k should be fine for that. Except Wow at least

[Nutri]

The display is a 1080p 144hz :-)

Im not sure if the CPU would fit on a newer MB, would have to check the socket. But even then, looking at its age I wouldn’t mind replacing it.

Thanks for all the insights in all the replies so far.

[Shakadam]

He said he doesn't want to drop below 60fps, so it's probably a 60hz monitor. A 4770k should be fine for that. Except Wow at least

It's mainly in the minimum FPS you notice the difference though.

As an example: In Guild Wars 2 (very heavily CPU limited game, probably even more than WoW) I would regularly drop down to ~20FPS or even slightly below in large pvp fights with my old system, with my new system I very rarely drop below 30FPS (lowest I've seen is 28FPS) even with increased graphical settings.
So the upgrade was easily a 50%, or more, increase in minimum FPS in that game. I found similar gains in several other heavily CPU limited games (ARPG's, strategy games, simulators etc).

[Temp name]

The display is a 1080p 144hz :-)

Im not sure if the CPU would fit on a newer MB, would have to check the socket. But even then, looking at its age I wouldn’t mind replacing it.

Thanks for all the insights in all the replies so far.

Ah okay, then I'd probably just upgrade both CPU and GPU at the same time, like Shaka said.

[Nutri]

At that price point you could easily do a major refresh/upgrqde, but the GPU is gonna be your biggest priority. Crossfire support sucks and the cards you have aren’t anything special to begin with. What country are you in specifically?

Yeah I was pretty let down by crossfire support :-( some of the games I tried it with even had a negative performance impact when played in crossfire for the most part. Some games patched up, some just didnt and I had to toggle crossfire off to get an fps increase.

I live in the Netherlands.

- - - Updated - - -

So based on the suggestions, for which I thank you all, I’ve so far come up with:

- Ryzen 7 5800X €469
- Gigabyte B550 AORUS ELITE €128
- Corsair DDR4 Vengeance LPX 2x8GB 3200 C16 €62
- Scythe Ninja 5 €51

The GPU I’m looking at is the 6800XT but that one isn’t for sale yet.

So the above is about €720 with shipping. I chose 2x8gb 3200 ram and will just buy another set if at some point 16gb will run short (easy way of saving €62). Also the store I usually buy stuff didnt have the Balistix ones, only the Vengeance. Is there any real difference in those?

Ive looked at some benchmarks and the 5900 doesnt seem to make that much of a difference to chip in another €100, so I think the 5800 is the fancy option over the 5600!

Since 6800XT isnt out yet and to bridge it I’ll just use my double R9 290’s till then. I’ll even stay under budget a bit. Probably doesnt give me a immediate ‘omg’ boost, but I guess at least in WoW i’ll notice.

Any remarks on this way of thinking?

[Nutri]

You’re going to want a 3600 RAM for Ryzen. The rest looks solid.

Ah!

If thats the case then I’ll have to look into a different MB, since this one says it supports up to 3200mhz.

[LordTakeo]

What do you mean "you guys"? It's 1 guy with 6 posts. Or Shaka suggesting it as an upgrade because "might as well"

Sorry, I was pretty early in the post, and just skimmed through it.

Edit:
And wasn't 3200 the sweetspot for DDR4 Ram on Ryzen? Or did it change with the 5000 series?

[Temp name]

Sorry, I was pretty early in the post, and just skimmed through it.

Edit:
And wasn't 3200 the sweetspot for DDR4 Ram on Ryzen? Or did it change with the 5000 series?

It changed with the 3000 series.
Ryzen has always liked fast RAM, but on the 1000 and 2000 series, the memory controller was suuuuuper bad (1000 couldn't reliably run 3200MHz, 2000 couldn't run above 3200Mhz). On the 3000 series they got a decent memory controller and are limited by infinity fabric clocks, which can only reliably run 1800-1900MHz, which means you want 3600 or 3800 MHz RAM. 5000 series didn't change anything over the 3000 series, it's the same infinity fabric and memory controller

[Nutri]

It changed with the 3000 series.
Ryzen has always liked fast RAM, but on the 1000 and 2000 series, the memory controller was suuuuuper bad (1000 couldn't reliably run 3200MHz, 2000 couldn't run above 3200Mhz). On the 3000 series they got a decent memory controller and are limited by infinity fabric clocks, which can only reliably run 1800-1900MHz, which means you want 3600 or 3800 MHz RAM. 5000 series didn't change anything over the 3000 series, it's the same infinity fabric and memory controller

I'm clearly not well read into this, but are my Google skills correct that even though a motherboard says it supports up to 3200mhz, there's certain math involved with ram that divides the 'box ram number' by two? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that would mean 3600 ram modules in a 3200 motherboard could function at 1800mhz as opposed to 3200 ram operating at 1600mhz?

Again, apologies if I'm totally wrong here, but I can't really seem to find any motherboards that list the max ram above 3200mhz.

[Shakadam]

I'm clearly not well read into this, but are my Google skills correct that even though a motherboard says it supports up to 3200mhz, there's certain math involved with ram that divides the 'box ram number' by two? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that would mean 3600 ram modules in a 3200 motherboard could function at 1800mhz as opposed to 3200 ram operating at 1600mhz?

Again, apologies if I'm totally wrong here, but I can't really seem to find any motherboards that list the max ram above 3200mhz.

3200Mhz is the official supported RAM frequency of Ryzen 3000 and 5000 CPU's, but basically any motherboard can run above this spec although technically it counts as overclocking.

And yes, since DDR4 RAM is double data rate, it means that 1800Mhz RAM is listed as 3600Mhz.

Ryzen 3000 series can reliably do somewhere between 3600 - 3800Mhz RAM in a 1:1 ratio with the Infinity Fabric (the "internal" communication bus in the CPU), you generally want to keep a 1:1 ratio.
Ryzen 5000 series can supposedly do somewhere between 3600 - 4000 Mhz RAM in 1:1 ratio.

[Nutri]

3200Mhz is the official supported RAM frequency of Ryzen 3000 and 5000 CPU's, but basically any motherboard can run above this spec although technically it counts as overclocking.

And yes, since DDR4 RAM is double data rate, it means that 1800Mhz RAM is listed as 3600Mhz.

Ryzen 3000 series can reliably do somewhere between 3600 - 3800Mhz RAM in a 1:1 ratio with the Infinity Fabric (the "internal" communication bus in the CPU), you generally want to keep a 1:1 ratio.
Ryzen 5000 series can supposedly do somewhere between 3600 - 4000 Mhz RAM in 1:1 ratio.

Gotcha! Thanks for clarifying

- - - Updated - - -

Made a little switcheroo then, coming to this:

- AMD Ryzen 7 5800X processor
- Scythe Ninja 5
- Gigabyte X570 AORUS ELITE
- Corsair DDR4 Vengeance RGB Pro 2x8GB CL18 3600

Changed the motherboard to the X570 since it says it supports Crossfire and that's what I'll use with my double R9's till the 6800XT is out. Also has two additional USB ports :P
Changed the ram to the 3600 version. Does CL16 / 18 matter?

These changes added around €80, making the total €797.

[Thunderball]

Changed the ram to the 3600 version. Does CL16 / 18 matter?

It does. CL18 indicated that the kit uses Hynix chips that might not work on XMP settings on AMD. There's a very simple recipe to avoid that: buy Crucial RAM.