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  1. #61
    Old God Kathranis's Avatar
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    Pale white skin, red eye, and san'layn ear options for blood elves would be easy.

    Now that blood elves and void elves have even more crossover in customization options, it would be nice for them to have options to further distance themselves.


    Posture and ear options for Forsaken would also be easy.

    Either way it should happen.

  2. #62
    Dark Ranger is a spell-archer, pure and simple. Just look at Sylvanas in HotS. Why is it so hard for people to see that the archetype is not covered by existing classes and therefore cannot be turned into a class skin?

    We had the exact same discussion when people were arguing that Demon Hunter would either be a Demolock or a "class skin for Combat Rogue". Yet here we are, it made it into a new class.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    Dark Ranger is a spell-archer, pure and simple. Just look at Sylvanas in HotS. Why is it so hard for people to see that the archetype is not covered by existing classes and therefore cannot be turned into a class skin?

    We had the exact same discussion when people were arguing that Demon Hunter would either be a Demolock or a "class skin for Combat Rogue". Yet here we are, it made it into a new class.
    The Demon Hunter is the reason the class skin idea is being presented. Look at the mechanics, it's heavily criticized for its incredibly basic gameplay and lack of complexity. Look at its design, it couldn't even fill out 3 full specs. There's a big problem with the design team being able to fit in more specs, more classes. That is why Class skins can be tailored to fill in the fantasy without the bloat.

    Given that every class goes through some form of change every expansion, some making sweeping changes to certain specs, some of these changes can accomodate room for multiple themes. And spells are literally no different than standard abilities when it comes to gameplay mechanics. Slightly different resource mechanics, some variations of cast times, cooldown and range limits, but otherwise an instant-cast DPS spell is little different from a shot.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    The Demon Hunter is the reason the class skin idea is being presented. Look at the mechanics, it's heavily criticized for its incredibly basic gameplay and lack of complexity. Look at its design, it couldn't even fill out 3 full specs. There's a big problem with the design team being able to fit in more specs, more classes. That is why Class skins can be tailored to fill in the fantasy without the bloat.

    Given that every class goes through some form of change every expansion, some making sweeping changes to certain specs, some of these changes can accomodate room for multiple themes. And spells are literally no different than standard abilities when it comes to gameplay mechanics. Slightly different resource mechanics, some variations of cast times, cooldown and range limits, but otherwise an instant-cast DPS spell is little different from a shot.
    Exactly this. DHs showed us that there is not that much design space for new classes or specs, unfortunately. There are interesting ideas and creative concepts for DR class, but I'm afraid it would leave us with another half-done shallow class like DH. I can't really think of any other role then DPS for DR, which limits their possibilites even further.

    Another issue is Legion content for any new class. Legion is heavily dependent on class halls, so they would need to find a way how to deal with that. As for DR specificaly, they were part of Unseen Path in Legion, so they probably could share Trueshot Lodge with hunters I guess.

  5. #65
    I repeat, if you look at Sylvanas in HotS, you'll se that she offers completely new gameplay and flavor. Not only is it new, it is also something you cannot replicate with class skins.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    I repeat, if you look at Sylvanas in HotS, you'll se that she offers completely new gameplay and flavor. Not only is it new, it is also something you cannot replicate with class skins.
    Purple arrow.. purple dagger... purple arrow... purple dagger.. Feels more like a combination of Sub Rogue and MM Hunter than something unique.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    I repeat, if you look at Sylvanas in HotS, you'll se that she offers completely new gameplay and flavor. Not only is it new, it is also something you cannot replicate with class skins.
    You can say the same for HotS incarnation of Illidan, yet playable DHs are not really similar to that concept. You can't really translate MOBA into MMO. Those are two different kind of games with different needs and totaly different gameplay.

    I admit Sylvanas from HotS can be some inspiration, but that is hardly a kit for one spec, what about the second one, or even third?

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    Pale white skin, red eye, and san'layn ear options for blood elves would be easy.

    Now that blood elves and void elves have even more crossover in customization options, it would be nice for them to have options to further distance themselves.


    Posture and ear options for Forsaken would also be easy.

    Either way it should happen.
    but the Sanlayn are not part of the horde and now serve the jailer.

    the dark ranger are part of the horde and are part of the forsaken society.

  9. #69
    Old God Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    but the Sanlayn are not part of the horde and now serve the jailer.

    the dark ranger are part of the horde and are part of the forsaken society.
    San'layn, undead blood elves, dark rangers, it's all basically the same. Pale skin, red eyes, vampiric tendencies.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    I repeat, if you look at Sylvanas in HotS, you'll se that she offers completely new gameplay and flavor. Not only is it new, it is also something you cannot replicate with class skins.
    So what?

    Cho'gall is also in HOTS and has completely new gameplay and flavour. Not only is it new, it also has something you can not replicate with class skins. Is there a point to mentioning this?

    WoW =/= HOTS. HotS has zero relevance to how WoW is currently being designed. People aren't criticizing the Demon Hunter because the spec isn't unique like HOTS, they criticize it because it lacks all complexity and shipped with only two specs.

  11. #71
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    but the Sanlayn are not part of the horde and now serve the jailer.

    the dark ranger are part of the horde and are part of the forsaken society.
    hey hey hey we could also make it so the risen Sanlayn would lose their control and rejoin their kin
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.

  12. #72
    Don't worry. it will come with a Dark Ranger class/spec.

    my suggestion, since Dark Ranger might not be enough to constitute a whole class, is to introduce a Ranger class.

    The Ranger class will be set apart from a Hunter, by being a magical, bow wielding, class. The Hunter, as of now, is more of a physical class.

    The three specializations that will constitute the Ranger class will be based on: the Dark Ranger, the Priestess of the Moon and the Sea Witch. They all use magical bows and attacks. Blizzard could take inspiration from Sylvanas' and Tyrande's abilities and talents, in Heroes of the Storm, when designing the class.

    The races that would be able to be a Dark Ranger, are:

    Blood elves (since they can be High elves now)
    Void elves (since they can be High elves now)
    Night elves (since War of Thorns introduced them)
    Forsaken undead
    Human undead (like Nathanos, Derek Proudmoore and Calia Menethil - hopefully, an allied race)
    Last edited by username993720; 2020-11-06 at 10:03 AM.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    I repeat, if you look at Sylvanas in HotS, you'll se that she offers completely new gameplay and flavor. Not only is it new, it is also something you cannot replicate with class skins.
    How would a Dark Ranger playstyle be fundamentally different from a Hunter apart from the names, icons and animations of abilities ? MM Hunters can already play without a pet.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post

    The Ranger class will be set apart from a Hunter, by being a magical, bow wielding, class. The Hunter, as of now, is more of a physical class.
    If Hunters aren't magical how do they do Arcane Shot or Chimaera Shot ?

    Also limiting Rangers to just bows gives them a handicap when it comes to loot.
    "I guess only blood elves feel like the odd man out for the Horde. I hope that we've engineered that into it as deftly as we could, but you know, it's the equivalent of a bunch of white chicks hanging out with goblin or tauren. It's weird." -- Chris Metzen

  14. #74
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garfurion View Post
    How would a Dark Ranger playstyle be fundamentally different from a Hunter apart from the names, icons and animations of abilities ? MM Hunters can already play without a pet.
    umm... a typical commonplace archer/hunter can't do any of the Warcraft 3 Dark Ranger skills
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.

  15. #75
    I am an advocate of class skins. I talked about Void Paladin class skin in the past, but I would also love a Void Hunter class skin, based on the Ren'dorei Umbral Rangers (and, obviously, Alleria Windrunner):



    I also think that Blizzard will add Light and Void specs/skins for EVERY SINGLE CLASS IN THE GAME in 10.0, which will obviously be about the Light and Void.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Garfurion View Post
    How would a Dark Ranger playstyle be fundamentally different from a Hunter apart from the names, icons and animations of abilities ? MM Hunters can already play without a pet.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If Hunters aren't magical how do they do Arcane Shot or Chimaera Shot ?

    Also limiting Rangers to just bows gives them a handicap when it comes to loot.
    Arcane Shot is an exception. just like Warlocks having Metamorphosis until Demon Hunters came along. When the Ranger class is added to the game, some abilities will be transfered from the Hunter.

    Chimaera Shot is less of a magical shot, and more of an animal-based shot. you see, one of its heads deals nature damage, while the other one does frost damage. it's like Sepent Sting, a venom-based shot.

    As for the weapons of the Ranger class, the Dark Ranger can wield: Axes, Bows, Crossbows, Daggers, Scythes and Swords. So, it will, pretty much, be applied to the whole class.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I am an advocate of class skins. I talked about Void Paladin class skin in the past, but I would also love a Void Hunter class skin, based on the Ren'dorei Umbral Rangers (and, obviously, Alleria Windrunner):



    I also think that Blizzard will add Light and Void specs/skins for EVERY SINGLE CLASS IN THE GAME in 10.0, which will obviously be about the Light and Void.
    We need a new class with new mechanics for a Void theme. Shadowpriest is just not enough when the Light has 5 specs to represent.

    Here is me hoping the whole Night Warrior arc will produce a new class. There is no playable representation of that either.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    We need a new class with new mechanics for a Void theme. Shadowpriest is just not enough when the Light has 5 specs to represent.

    Here is me hoping the whole Night Warrior arc will produce a new class. There is no playable representation of that either.
    Fully agreed. The Void is the most destructive and insidious power in the cosmos, yet it has very little representation as far as classes are concerned. Look at this:

    LIGHT: Paladin, Priest
    FEL: Warlock, Demon Hunter
    ARCANE: Mage (all specs derive from the Arcane)
    DEATH: Death Knight
    LIFE: Druid, and you could make the case for Shamans too, as they communicate with the very elements of the land.

    But VOID? Only Shadow Priest. Who are not even a class. They are a spec.

    It is therefore clear that the Void DESERVES more representation amongst playable classes.

    So if they ever make a Dark Ranger class, it must have a spec specifically dedicated to the Void, like the Umbral Rangers I posted above.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Fully agreed. The Void is the most destructive and insidious power in the cosmos, yet it has very little representation as far as classes are concerned. Look at this:

    LIGHT: Paladin, Priest
    FEL: Warlock, Demon Hunter
    ARCANE: Mage (all specs derive from the Arcane)
    DEATH: Death Knight
    LIFE: Druid, and you could make the case for Shamans too, as they communicate with the very elements of the land.

    But VOID? Only Shadow Priest. Who are not even a class. They are a spec.

    It is therefore clear that the Void DESERVES more representation amongst playable classes.

    So if they ever make a Dark Ranger class, it must have a spec specifically dedicated to the Void, like the Umbral Rangers I posted above.
    My theory is that the Night Warrior might develop into a new playable class which will feature many themes long missing like Dark Ranger, Warden and the new Tyrande dark/umbral magic.

    Perhaps Void with some Arcane will be the elemental flavor of the class. One can only hope.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    My theory is that the Night Warrior might develop into a new playable class which will feature many themes long missing like Dark Ranger, Warden and the new Tyrande dark/umbral magic.

    Perhaps Void with some Arcane will be the elemental flavor of the class. One can only hope.
    The theme and general aesthetics of the Night Warrior lean heavily towards the Void, which is often associated with the stars, space, the unknown. Just look at the well in which Tyrande ascended to Night Warrior:



    As well the powers Tyrande and Alleria wield are not so different. They are divine powers, that are very hard to control and can become very dangerous if left unchecked. Many night elves are worried that Tyrande might be overwhelmed by the raw energy she has absorbed. She is, after all, a host for Elune's power, and Elune is a deity.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

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