i miss the "medieval" fantasy of WoW

[Aucald]

I would say "medieval" might've been in play way back in WC1, but with the inclusion of tanks, submarines, oil, and industry in WC2 that sort of went out the window. Bizarre magitech and similar stuff is now pretty par for the course for the Warcraft universe - and while I don't think it approaches sci-fi it's definitely a melange of different influences and themes.

[m4xc4v413r4]

So basically, you want World of Warcraft to make up it's own story instead of using the lore that was already established in Warcraft. Might as well change the name of the game then.

[GMZohar1]

Yeah I miss the medieval fantasy of wow too.. Engineering robots, explosives, robot mounts, Gnomeregan.. You know, all the good things about medieval times...

[username993720]

it was only a matter of time before the scale of WoW got bigger and we ended up fighting inter-dimensional demons from outer space, traveling to different planets, and now even going into the afterlife.
but i miss the grounded sense of medieval fantasy in WoW.
sword and shields, dragons, magic, and the feel you get from (let's say) classic WoW.

now.....before anybody says "go play Classic" .... that's not what i'm getting at.
what i'm getting at is that, as WoW's story continues do you think it will ever be grounded again?
i thought that BFA was an attempt to do that but looking back we see that wasn't the case.
the stories lined up to be dealt with in the future point to this scale becoming bigger and more out there.

I agree with you. they went too far with demons using spaceships and robots. i would have preferred they stay a hellish underworld force, like in Diablo. i don't mind them being from outer-space, but i'd rather they use portals, than spaceships.

They went too far with us going to Argus by a dimensional ship, instead of a portal. Even Sargeras stabbing the World, while we watch from a spaceship, deviates way too much from the fantasy style that characterized Warcraft.

Things like using a 'Kamehameha' to kill Deathwing, or N'zoth, while M.O.T.H.E.R, a titanic watcher, speaks in a robotic tone, ruins the game's immersion.

I don't mind us going to the afterlife. it is, after all, grounded in mythology - which, honestly, should be the foundation of Warcraft, and not sci-fi.

I don't even mind Draenei being an alien race, like the Protoss from Starcraft. as long as they are Paladins, like in fantasy, and not lightsaber wielding sci-fi creatures.

It doesn't matter that Orcs are from another planet, or that beings from another realm are summoned to Azeroth - as long as it's grounded in magic and not in futuristic technology.

I don't think people here understand what he meant by "medieval fantasy". it means he would like to keep it a fantasy game, and not make it a sci-fi game like Starcraft, Star Wars or Star Trek.

Therefore, archaic technology, like that of the Gnomes and Goblins, do not interfere with the fantasy aspect of WoW.

[Villager720]

I personally like that it can be all of these things.
I really enjoyed the grounded, semi-believable nation of Kul Tiras - but I also loved the dinosaur empire of the Zandalar.
If everything expansion was just different types of medieval kingdoms, I’d have been bored to tears years ago.

[Cybelda]

I agree with Villager and will add, as a fantasy aficionado, that the market for 'medieval fantasy' is probably over-saturated. I mean there are so many out there- like ASOIF and LOTR are the classics, but there is also Malazan, Traitor Son, Heart of the Wyld series, Joe Abercombie's books, Second Apocalypse. I don't mean to criticize any of those- in fact I love many of them- but I feel it would be taking away from the uniqueness of Warcraft if we were to try to revert to a Warcraft 1 setting where technology was still universally primitive.

Now does that mean I think Warcraft handled technology particularly well? No, I don't think they did. I think they should potray a logically evolving world, with such developments as more footmen switching out swords for rifles and less of those enormous battles as shown in the Siege of Lordaeron (which I think was fucking stupid- clustered troops against massed Blight is a massacare waiting to happen). That doesn't mean that tech advances universally like it does with the West of course- magic makes a huge difference and gives factions such as the Kaldorei or Draenei different paths to advance through.

[salate]

Was WoW all that medieval to begin with? Well, if you mean slaying dragons and live with swords and shield, then partly the Eastern Kingdoms are all about that, yeah. Plague, genocide, political problems, betrayals... Orcs from the other plane, nagas from the waters, goblins with their steampunk theme...

I dunno. I love WoW exactly because it shuffles everything. And Metzen started doing it when brought us orc clans, brought us alotta things (well and his team probably) and big thanks for that!

[Olololo2r5]

I get where the OP is coming from and I have felt this from time to time. and why I prefer leveling Alliance characters in Eastern Kingdoms, because I love "medieval fantasy" most of all and that continent and races have it most.

Kul Tiras was actually a breath of fresh air after Legion and some parts feel very inspired by Tolkein and other "medieval fantasy". Stormsong I felt like I was in the Hobbit at times. and Drustvar felt like The Witcher and Diablo

Like another poster said, I like the mix of all though. Just thinking back to TBC on release and how cool the Outland zones were the first time even though it was "SPACEY". All this is what makes WOW so unique. It's a massive universe that takes inspiration from multiple parts of history/literature/art rather. It makes it cartoony and I like that

[Soon-TM]

I mean, Revendreth has a strong medieval Transylvania vibe.

My take is that we need more Revendreth, more Drustvar, more Jade Forest, and less Argus or AU Draenor.

[Just1c3]

it was only a matter of time before the scale of WoW got bigger and we ended up fighting inter-dimensional demons from outer space, traveling to different planets, and now even going into the afterlife.
but i miss the grounded sense of medieval fantasy in WoW.
sword and shields, dragons, magic, and the feel you get from (let's say) classic WoW.

now.....before anybody says "go play Classic" .... that's not what i'm getting at.
what i'm getting at is that, as WoW's story continues do you think it will ever be grounded again?
i thought that BFA was an attempt to do that but looking back we see that wasn't the case.
the stories lined up to be dealt with in the future point to this scale becoming bigger and more out there.

Uh. Even Classic WoW had like, gnomish death rays, guns, lot of weird shit. Idk what to tell you, like. If you think that Vanilla WoW was full-on purist medieval idk what to tell you, either you're remembering wrong or you're deliberately leaving a lot of the explicitly anachronistic weird fun steampunk shit out. And like, that's fine if you want to do that, but it's a false narrative either way. I wouldn't tell you to "go play Classic" because that's shit advice, even Classic doesn't actually have what you seem to be looking for. Maybe "go play Kingdom Come: Deliverance" or something. Something like that has WAY more of the vibe you seem like you're asking for.

also fwiw I think that the broad scope of genres has a LOT to do with WoW's staying power. if you want to do some weird sci-fi shit, you can be a literal space alien and fly around in a spaceship made out of living crystal. if you're into some more grounded shit, you can play a human warrior and do the whole "knight of stormwind" thing. like, there's something for everyone. and if you get bored with one thing, you can go do something else. other MMO's don't have such broad appeal because they narrow their focus. WoW incorporates a lot from a lot of different genres so it appeals to a broader variety of genre fans. stripping that back, I think, would be a bad move for WoW's staying power and longevity, because say, the sci-fi nerds might be like "well there isn't as much space alien shit in the game anymore, fuck this, it's boring now, I'm going back to STO" and idk I just think that's a mistake. like, wanting your narrow genre focus at the expense of fucking over all the OTHER people that LIKE all the other weird shit, is a really dumb and bad worldview imho. but whatever like, you do what you want.

[LemonDemonGirl]

My take is that we need more Revendreth, more Drustvar, more Jade Forest, and less Argus or AU Draenor.

And more Nazmir

[huth]

I agree with you. they went too far with demons using spaceships and robots. i would have preferred they stay a hellish underworld force, like in Diablo. i don't mind them being from outer-space, but i'd rather they use portals, than spaceships.

They went too far with us going to Argus by a dimensional ship, instead of a portal. Even Sargeras stabbing the World, while we watch from a spaceship, deviates way too much from the fantasy style that characterized Warcraft.

That seems rather random. Would you say they had gone to far if they had teleported Dalaran over instead of the Vindicar?

It doesn't matter that Orcs are from another planet, or that beings from another realm are summoned to Azeroth - as long as it's grounded in magic and not in futuristic technology.

I don't think people here understand what he meant by "medieval fantasy". it means he would like to keep it a fantasy game, and not make it a sci-fi game like Starcraft, Star Wars or Star Trek.

Therefore, archaic technology, like that of the Gnomes and Goblins, do not interfere with the fantasy aspect of WoW.

That's bullshit. Gnome/Goblin tech is the only actual tech, everybody else uses magic to fill in the holes. Legion "spaceships" are basically large pieces of stone kept aloft by burning souls, and the Vindicaar also runs on magic.

For that matter, you might want to take a closer look at what Star Wars is about. It's a story about swordfighters and wizards(and swordfighting wizards) who just happen to live in a high-tech society. That's still Fantasy.
Fantasy vs. SciFi isn't about techlevel. Futuristic doesn't mean SciFi, medieval doesn't make it Fantasy. It's what the story is about that makes the difference.

What ruins your immersion is placing arbitrary limitations on what you deem acceptable or not on the setting, rather than evaluating whether it makes sense for them to have it given their backstory.

[Revamp Man]

i think 10.0 will be a bit of a return to it

[username993720]

That seems rather random. Would you say they had gone to far if they had teleported Dalaran over instead of the Vindicar?



That's bullshit. Gnome/Goblin tech is the only actual tech, everybody else uses magic to fill in the holes. Legion "spaceships" are basically large pieces of stone kept aloft by burning souls, and the Vindicaar also runs on magic.

For that matter, you might want to take a closer look at what Star Wars is about. It's a story about swordfighters and wizards(and swordfighting wizards) who just happen to live in a high-tech society. That's still Fantasy.
Fantasy vs. SciFi isn't about techlevel. Futuristic doesn't mean SciFi, medieval doesn't make it Fantasy. It's what the story is about that makes the difference.

What ruins your immersion is placing arbitrary limitations on what you deem acceptable or not on the setting, rather than evaluating whether it makes sense for them to have it given their backstory.

Moving an entire city with magic is ridiculous as well. so is Jaina's floating ship during Battle for Lordaeron.

"Magic is just undiscovered science". if everything is magic, then there's no limitation to how much futuristic Warcraft can be. I'll tell you what i don't want to see - "Pew Pew in space". Warcraft was originally Orcs in space, which was, basically, Orcs in space-marine suits, wielding guns, like in Starcraft. That's what i don't want to see in WoW.

As for Goblins' and Gnomes' technology, their ways are somewhat "romanticized". their Tinker lifestyle is based on real-life, historical tinsmiths, metal-workers and engineers (just with added fantasy). Just like how Gilneans are based on Victorian-era England, and not the middle ages, the Goblins' Cartels are more like the 19th century Cartels. It doesn't have to be, specifically, from the Middle-ages, but anything from the past that can be romanticized as fantasy. Same with mythology - Halls of Valor (Valhalla) might be high in the sky, but it fits the fantasy setting of Warcraft. The problem arises when you take futuristic fantasy, like spaceships, laser beams and high-tech as core background to a fantasy game like Warcraft.

As for Draenei, thankfully, they didn't get the full Protoss treatment and are, somewhat, primitive. as for Mechagnomes, although quite advanced, they have a 'mad scientist' fantasy to them.

[Baneto]

I am curious to what "medieval fantasy" OP is referring to, there has always been steampunk / space-related lore in the game has it not?

[FelPlague]

Warcraft was only medevil is Warcraft 1. Since then it has gone into what you would call scientific high fantasy. As in high fantasy, but it does have science. And with that a lot of.machinery is not what we have, but mixed with magic. As the saying goes.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Because in a fantasy world with science, it usually is magic.
A lot of machines in wow arnt just actual tehconlgy, they are technology that use magic to preform.
A shrink ray is not a device that shrinks you, it's a device that creates a spell that shrinks you.
A BlackRock iron star is not a giant engine that runs around crushing enemies. It's an elemental shoved into a giant ball.

In a world of magic, there would always be science, be it alchemy or technology, but the question is, is this technology actual technology or just magic? In wow it's magic. And that is fine.
But look to things like star wars, where the technology is just well technology, but then you also randomly have magic, and issues arrise. But in wow, the universe is magic, and from this people have used this magic to make advanced technologies.

Idk a teleporter is insanely advanced.
But in a universe with magic, where mages can teleport all the time, a teleporter is just a gnomes way of breaking into the geomancy with machine to make his own portals.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

We were already invading other planets as soon as the Beyond the Dark Portal expansion for WC2 dropped.

[ZazuuPriest]

Moving the goalposts at light speed, I see. First you went from "There's really no religion, kings and queens and knights and so on are of relatively little importance" which is so obviously wrong that it hurts to read it, then you moved over to claiming that it can't be medieval because there are no noble land owners (even though there are) and barely any peasants (even though they're described as "the backbone of the Alliance") and now you're at a point where you just name random things that didn't exist in the real middle ages and mostly came after Classic (which misses the original point of discussion).

The starting point of Warcraft lies in very traditional medieval human kingdoms. The setting started to explore different fantasy tropes through different races at a pretty early stage but the focal point was always the story of the human kingdoms with their knightly/templar orders, fantasy catholicism, "crusades" etc.
At its core Warcraft was just a run-of-the-mill medieval fantasy setting with some "quirky" technology added by funny looking fantasy races. Tell me: what major roles do Gnomes and Goblins play in the story of Warcraft up until Classic? What big influence did their technologies have on the story? Did Arthas purge Stratholme with napalm bombs? Did the Alliance of Men, Elves and Orcs destroy Archimonde with tank companies and gyrocopter squadrons?

It's completely baffling to me how you can hyperfocus on these small elements when they simply play no role in the grand scheme of things (and for good reasons because Blizzard knows that they can't go too far with undermining the medieval fantasy roots of their game which is why they keep appealing to it) and at the same time accuse me of gaslighting.

But I totally get it. It's the 1700s. That's why we're seeing line battles instead of crusades and medieval sieges.

its crazy to me that the only reason you make the argument for WoW every being mideval fantasy is that some characters use swords and shields and you ignore literally everything else in the game.

Shout it from the rooftops all you want buddy the presence of swords and castles does not medieval fantasy make. Especially when you ignore everything thats been in this series since WC2

[Nerovar]

its crazy to me that the only reason you make the argument for WoW every being mideval fantasy is that some characters use swords and shields and you ignore literally everything else in the game.

Shout it from the rooftops all you want buddy the presence of swords and castles does not medieval fantasy make. Especially when you ignore everything thats been in this series since WC2

Can you give me an actual argument for why/at what point the existence of modern technology should be an exclusion criterion for whether or not we're dealing with a medieval fantasy setting?

[Toho]

Is anyone going to argue Warhammer (not 40k) is not medieval either?