America's new power couple: Mitch and Joe

[Felya]

Again don't care but it seems to be the only thing you want to talk about not about the fact that literal Neo Nazis and white supremacists were dictating policy under Trump. There's nothing you can say Biden would do that Trump wouldn't have done worse, this is the guy that spent 4 years defending monsters all over the world.

Not completely fair... they did start a threat that white nationalist only killed 174 people at the time... so... no, they started threads saying murdering nazis are not a problem. It’s Newsome using the fake corona to get big tech onto school... that’s the problem...

[Nightstalker]

Again don't care but it seems to be the only thing you want to talk about not about the fact that literal Neo Nazis and white supremacists were dictating policy under Trump. There's nothing you can say Biden would do that Trump wouldn't have done worse, this is the guy that spent 4 years defending monsters all over the world.

Can you name any of these Neo Nazis and white supremacists by name and give examples of their actions qualifying for these terms?

[Kronik85]

Are we allowed to point out that Biden will be a shitty President for the left wing agenda and that Incrementalism is creating an ever more right wing Democrat party?

Because this shit ain't over btw, Joe Biden isn't going to re-establish normalcy and then all those Trump voters will magically forget about Trumpism. Your next Republican nominee is only going to double down on it and be an even greater existential threat to democracy than Trump was so the Dems will need to move further to the Right to win an election.

Congrats on removing your Moron In Chief but let's not pretend that anything has been won beyond having a a non cringe President, the stupidest leader in the West award now falls to Boris Johnson.

[Felya]

Can you name any of these Neo Nazis and white supremacists by name and give examples of their actions qualifying for these terms?

Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon... at least...

[beanman12345]

Can you name any of these Neo Nazis and white supremacists by name and give examples of their actions qualifying for these terms?

Stephen Miller. Steve Bannon. Is this a real question?

[Draco-Onis]

Can you name any of these Neo Nazis and white supremacists by name and give examples of their actions qualifying for these terms?

Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon, Sebastian Gorka also Trump endorsed and campaigned for racist pedophile Roy Moore that's just a few examples.

[Theodarzna]

....I gave you 3 examples in my post, all of which Biden hasn't shown opposition to.

Is this a JoeBiden.com pledge or something he vowed to his wealthy benefactors? Because what he promises them is what I feel is probably what we can expect.

- - - Updated - - -

Are we allowed to point out that Biden will be a shitty President for the left wing agenda and that Incrementalism is creating an ever more right wing Democrat party?

Because this shit ain't over btw, Joe Biden isn't going to re-establish normalcy and then all those Trump voters will magically forget about Trumpism. Your next Republican nominee is only going to double down on it and be an even greater existential threat to democracy than Trump was so the Dems will need to move further to the Right to win an election.

Congrats on removing your Moron In Chief but let's not pretend that anything has been won beyond having a a non cringe President, the stupidest leader in the West award now falls to Boris Johnson.

No, instead of "helping Trump" it will be some new excuse to tell those criticisms to STFU.

Heck, incrementalism, if that worked why isn't Medicare a Universal Health Care program? All this invocation of "Incrementalism" sounds like the Lib version of when Trump people say "Trust the plan" to one another.

[Doctor Amadeus]

The fact is the OP had nothing to do with the outcome. It's politics of course Joe working on our behalf we have to give something to get something, unlike Trumpsters in their zero sum game that utterly failed.

People got off their asses and or voted by mail and participated because the Silent Majority is bullshit. Of course Biden and the DNC has a lot to get done, the key difference is Joe can get it done.

If he can't or won't we have 4 years, I will be more than willing to entertain alternatives then.

[Draco-Onis]

The fact is the OP had nothing to do with the outcome. It's politics of course Joe working on our behalf we have to give something to get something, unlike Trumpsters in their zero sum game that utterly failed.

People got off their asses and or voted by mail and participated because the Silent Majority is bullshit. Of course Biden and the DNC has a lot to get done, the key difference is Joe can get it done.

If he can't or won't we have 4 years, I will be more than willing to entertain alternatives then.

Yup the OP ignores the fact that many of the left don't like Joe Biden or Harris but Trump was so insanely fucking worse we sucked it up and voted for him.

[Ripster42]

Can you name any of these Neo Nazis and white supremacists by name and give examples of their actions qualifying for these terms?

Hey guys, I've seen this one.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Yup the OP ignores the fact that many of the left don't like Joe Biden or Harris but Trump was so insanely fucking worse we sucked it up and voted for him.

Exactly. I in not way before or now thought this would be a spike the ball moment. I like Biden more in the beginning politically than I do now. I am still more for Bernie Sanders of 2016 before all the BS, and I still am.

But right now we need to fucking heal, this is opportunity focus on the issues, not Twitter and the next embarrassment.

[Omega10]

I am curious where you get that bit.

From your cartoon.

[Draco-Onis]

Exactly. I in not way before or now thought this would be a spike the ball moment. I like Biden more in the beginning politically than I do now. I am still more for Bernie Sanders of 2016 before all the BS, and I still am.

But right now we need to fucking heal, this is opportunity focus on the issues, not Twitter and the next embarrassment.

I look forward to politics being serious again instead of the fucking clown show every day on twitter or scandals coming out the wazoo from the white house.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I look forward to politics being serious again instead of the fucking clown show every day on twitter or scandals coming out the wazoo from the white house.

Honestly I would love for it to go back to being boring again.

[Felya]

I look forward to politics being serious again instead of the fucking clown show every day on twitter or scandals coming out the wazoo from the white house.

Oh come on... do you forget @Vyxn ?

[Theodarzna]

From your cartoon.

I'd imagine Liberals are pleased as punch with said development. After all Liberals aren't Leftists, so the election of Biden wouldn't particularly pester them. Really the only people upset are going to be Leftists and people who sincerely thought Trump was an unstoppable hero to them. Liberals by and large will get what they wanted and can happily go to Back to Brunch and sleep soundly knowing that Joe and Kamala are like their new mom and dad and will handle things.

[unfilteredJW]

If you put on tuba music before you read a Theo post it makes it bearable.

[Machismo]

It's weird that Trump supporters are suddenly outraged at the idea of a President working with Mitch McConnell to further an agenda.

That's like being mad if Biden hired his kid to work in the White House.

[Theodarzna]

A public option (which is a necessary intermediate step to get Republican buy-in to the program, though there is no actual reason we can't just go right to M4A in a practical sense) would have to be funded somehow, and that is by people paying premiums, like any other insurance.

First, Republican buy in? Why would they buy into it? I mean, they didn't last time, so what future conditions would possibly exist that merit this as a necessary intermediate step? We already have Medicare, seems like you are reinventing the wheel to just dither and waste time.

Second, if people are paying premiums than its not a Health Service, Free at point of service means no premiums, no deductibles, no co-pay. Those words vanish from the public lexicon because they don't mean anything anymore. Maybe that is our difference, I want a National Health Service, like Canada and the UK. You seem to want to create an insurance company.

Medicare buy-in provides:

Actually it sucks because employers include health insurance bill in setting employee compensation schemes. So for the employee the idea of opt-inng to a public option or medicare buy-in, that by default entails that that unlucky S.O.B must now pay for Buy In/Public Option but also because they are working for a company who uses healthcare bill costs as part of the formulae that determines total pay they get screwed. Workers who mistakenly try to opt into this Buttigieg Buy-In are basically only opting into double the bill. Due to that fact every employee will opt for cheaper, private plans and just hope they never need to use the shoddy private services while those who actually do need to opt for the buy-in will be privatizing the gains, socializing the losses.

More over the idea that the private health insurance industry will lie down is as silly as believing this program needs Republicans to buy into it. Their voters already do. No, what will happen is these companies will not just opt to die; they will lobby like all hell to make the buy-in a special dispensation I.E. Means Testing. And before it gets brought up the idea of a multipayer/public option Health Care schemes that are successful in Europe, these places have actual labor unions, not just weak lackeys but Unions that actually have gotten things for their workers. Medicare-for-all-who-want-it would merely become Medicare-for-all-who-would-die-without-it.

The public option is the next step.

There is zero indication it is a "next step", I mean if we accept that logic, why not just expand Medicare, we already have a National Health Service, but just for old people. Why is the ACA the step we all must rally around and pretend will lead to a NHS, when if this incremental argument held sway and was true, wouldn't Medicare have been that? How the Heritage Foundations plan is a gateway to an NHS sounds like someone's fanfiction. I cannot even find any actual politician suggesting it will be that. Nor a exact explanation for how or why that will come about except via magical thinking and the power of wishes.

[Antiganon]

First, Republican buy in? Why would they buy into it? I mean, they didn't last time, so what future conditions would possibly exist that merit this as a necessary intermediate step? We already have Medicare, seems like you are reinventing the wheel to just dither and waste time.

Second, if people are paying premiums than its not a Health Service, Free at point of service means no premiums, no deductibles, no co-pay. Those words vanish from the public lexicon because they don't mean anything anymore. Maybe that is our difference, I want a National Health Service, like Canada and the UK. You seem to want to create an insurance company.



Actually it sucks because employers include health insurance bill in setting employee compensation schemes. So for the employee the idea of opt-inng to a public option or medicare buy-in, that by default entails that that unlucky S.O.B must now pay for Buy In/Public Option but also because they are working for a company who uses healthcare bill costs as part of the formulae that determines total pay they get screwed. Workers who mistakenly try to opt into this Buttigieg Buy-In are basically only opting into double the bill. Due to that fact every employee will opt for cheaper, private plans and just hope they never need to use the shoddy private services while those who actually do need to opt for the buy-in will be privatizing the gains, socializing the losses.

More over the idea that the private health insurance industry will lie down is as silly as believing this program needs Republicans to buy into it. Their voters already do. No, what will happen is these companies will not just opt to die; they will lobby like all hell to make the buy-in a special dispensation I.E. Means Testing. And before it gets brought up the idea of a multipayer/public option Health Care schemes that are successful in Europe, these places have actual labor unions, not just weak lackeys but Unions that actually have gotten things for their workers. Medicare-for-all-who-want-it would merely become Medicare-for-all-who-would-die-without-it.



There is zero indication it is a "next step", I mean if we accept that logic, why not just expand Medicare, we already have a National Health Service, but just for old people. Why is the ACA the step we all must rally around and pretend will lead to a NHS, when if this incremental argument held sway and was true, wouldn't Medicare have been that? How the Heritage Foundations plan is a gateway to an NHS sounds like someone's fanfiction. I cannot even find any actual politician suggesting it will be that. Nor a exact explanation for how or why that will come about except via magical thinking and the power of wishes.

Free at point of service means no co-pays. It has nothing to do whatsoever with premiums, which are by definition not paid at point if service.

I'm not talking about getting GOP congress to buy in, I'm talking about getting GOP voters to buy in. People like the idea of universal healthcare, but for a huge segment of the population the scariest words they will ever hear are "I'm from the government and I'm here to help".

You talk about employer provided coverage, ignoring that there is an employee cost to employer plans, and that many (not most, but many) offer a stipend in lieu of health insurance if you are already insured from another source.

The key here is not not let the insurance lobbies win. Their entire purpose is rent seeking in the health of the American people. They have a captive market who will literally die or be brought to financial ruin if they don't have health insurance, and many wind up in financial ruin even after paying insurance premiums for many years.

Listen, if we had 60 votes in the Senate I'd be all for pushing M4A on January 20th, and let the Republicans in Congress sit in the corner and cry, but we are looking at a slim chance of a 50/50 split Senate.

Given the political realities right now, would you prefer the following:

No changes to ACA other than undoing Trump's executive orders

Or

Compromising somewhat with a public option in the marketplaces, which (if run well) will appeal to consumers for it's low cost and good coverage, while instilling confidence in government run healthcare in the general population, making it easier to adopt M4A when we have a more favorable Congress?

Why do you feel the need to shit on better for not being perfect?