Underwhelming FPS increase in WoW after new build.

[Mars_Trueskills]

Hi there, so I've just put together a new machine.

Specs are as following:
MSI MAG X570 TOMAHAWK WIFI ATX AM4 AMD X570
Samsung 980 PRO SSD PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 - 1TB
ASUS ROG Strix 850, 850W PSU
AMD Ryzen 7 5800X Processor
MSI RTX Gaming Trio X 10 GB GDDR6X
G.Skill Trident Z Neo DDR4 3600Mhz 32GB CL16
DeepCool Assassin III CPU Cooler
Fractal Design Meshify C TG
Corsair 140mm AF140

However, with everything at ultra and max'd out, ray tracing enabled, I have 110-120 fps in the open world and dip to like 60-70 fps in big hubs like Orgrimmar.
If I disable Ray tracing I get an additional 40 fps and don't experience the dips in the big cities.

When I play other games like Forza Horizon it sits on 185/200 fps stable with everything max'd out at 1440p.
Same goes for Apex Legends.
In LoL I hit 700 fps and my character starts glitching, so I have to enable FPS cap at 240.

Temps are also good, 32 degrees celsius idle on CPU & GPU, under load CPU jumps to 55-60 and GPU to 70 degrees celsius.



Maybe it's just WoW that's terribly optimized, hope to get some input from people with similar hardware and compare.

[ShaanuJaanu]

yup, WoW is pretty bad when it comes to high end systems in big cities/raid especially with addons.

That said, you can get bit more FPS if u lower things like Shadows/Liquid details/lower AA to 4x or 2x etc.

[deenman]

70 degrees sounds kinda high for wow,but i havent tried ray tracing...also yeah wow pretty much is notorious for not being gr8 with fps in crowded areas,you have modern games that can handle huge crowd on your screen just fine,but log in to wow classic when world buff is coming in and boom 40 fps

[Malkiah]

Maybe it's just WoW that's terribly optimized, hope to get some input from people with similar hardware and compare.

it's not even so much "terribly optimized" as it is "built on the foundations of code that were written in the late 1990s" - there is inherently and necessarily a scalability ceiling to something like WoW which you can never overcome with brute force.

yes, wow is an older game and its graphics don't have as many pixels as newer games, but its engine is cobbled together piece by piece over a 20 year period and their business model requires them to have a floor to their specs much lower than modern games.

[Atrea]

What resolution are you running at?
Remember, the 3080 is designed for 4k gaming, its 1080p or 1440p performance over the 2080Ti is negligible.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that WoW is poorly optimized but single core performance is definitely what drives it. As it is still very CPU bound you're just going to have to get used to the fact that in order to have WoW perform at its best you need an Intel CPU, which offers superior single-thread performance. A Ryzen 7 5800X is only roughly equivalent in this department to an i5-9600K, which is last generation's i5, a 6-core CPU. In other games, this is not necessarily an issue, so I wouldn't go about building a system exclusively to WoW's needs, but if you are looking for what would run this game the best, that CPU isn't it by a long shot.

In any case, the numbers sound right for a CPU-heavy game like WoW, and if you are running at 4k you are getting incredible performance. If not; then why did you buy a 3080?

[Mars_Trueskills]

Right okay, good to know it's just WoW that sucks in terms of optimization.

I was benchmarking and testing and everything seems perfectly fine on all scores, cpu is underperforming but that's due to not having overclocked it compared to other testers.

What resolution are you running at?
Remember, the 3080 is designed for 4k gaming, its 1080p or 1440p performance over the 2080Ti is negligible.

1440p.

- - - Updated - - -

it's not even so much "terribly optimized" as it is "built on the foundations of code that were written in the late 1990s" - there is inherently and necessarily a scalability ceiling to something like WoW which you can never overcome with brute force.

yes, wow is an older game and its graphics don't have as many pixels as newer games, but its engine is cobbled together piece by piece over a 20 year period and their business model requires them to have a floor to their specs much lower than modern games.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

[chazus]

it's not even so much "terribly optimized" as it is "built on the foundations of code that were written in the late 1990s" - there is inherently and necessarily a scalability ceiling to something like WoW which you can never overcome with brute force.

yes, wow is an older game and its graphics don't have as many pixels as newer games, but its engine is cobbled together piece by piece over a 20 year period and their business model requires them to have a floor to their specs much lower than modern games.

While it was 'built on the foundations' that doesn't mean it has any resemblance to what it used to be, and pretty much any limitations from the past are long, long, long gone. The current engine is unrecognizable from the stuff from 2010. Let alone 2000. Please stop making this assertion as if thats part of the reason it has issues.

- - - Updated - - -

Right okay, good to know it's just WoW that sucks in terms of optimization.

It's not that it isnt optimized, its just an aspect of the game (specifically draw calls are the biggest roadblock)

Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

It doesn't really make a lot of sense, if it isn't true.

[Atrea]

1440p.

The 3000 series - but specifically the 3080 and 3090 - were designed for 4K gaming. Technology like DLSS give these cards an advantage when it comes to performance on these higher resolutions.

The RTX 2080 Ti has similar performance at 1440p to the 3080; it is only at 4k where the 3080 truly shines versus its older brother.
That's not to say it was the wrong card to buy; at the price, the 3080 is the clear choice over the 2080 Ti, especially if you are upgrading from an older or less powerful card (a 1080, an RX 5700 XT, or something) - but you really should get yourself a 4k display and take advantage of that card's niche.

It's not so much that it's underperforming, it's that your expectations were off.

[Noobslayer]

Hi there, so I've just put together a new machine.

Specs are as following:
MSI MAG X570 TOMAHAWK WIFI ATX AM4 AMD X570
Samsung 980 PRO SSD PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 - 1TB
ASUS ROG Strix 850, 850W PSU
AMD Ryzen 7 5800X Processor
MSI RTX Gaming Trio X 10 GB GDDR6X
G.Skill Trident Z Neo DDR4 3600Mhz 32GB CL16
DeepCool Assassin III CPU Cooler
Fractal Design Meshify C TG
Corsair 140mm AF140

However, with everything at ultra and max'd out, ray tracing enabled, I have 110-120 fps in the open world and dip to like 60-70 fps in big hubs like Orgrimmar.
If I disable Ray tracing I get an additional 40 fps and don't experience the dips in the big cities.

When I play other games like Forza Horizon it sits on 185/200 fps stable with everything max'd out at 1440p.
Same goes for Apex Legends.
In LoL I hit 700 fps and my character starts glitching, so I have to enable FPS cap at 240.

Temps are also good, 32 degrees celsius idle on CPU & GPU, under load CPU jumps to 55-60 and GPU to 70 degrees celsius.



Maybe it's just WoW that's terribly optimized, hope to get some input from people with similar hardware and compare.

So I just checked this on my system. The only difference in our machines is I have a 3950x with an RTX 2070 super, boot drive is a Gigabyte Aorus PCIe 4.0 nvme.2, Aorus Master mobo, no overclocking, and I am using a 360mm AIO cooling solution with the system housed in a Lian Li PCO-11 dynamic case with 9 cooling fans

I am averaging 120 FPS in the open world and 70-90 FPS in major hubs. Raytracing only knocks my FPS down about 20 FPS when I enter a major hub. My FPS does not change from setting 7 to max settings. It only goes up in FPS when I drop below setting 7. This is in Retail. In the Shadowlands Beta my FPS drops about 50 FPS across the board. I suspect beta is not yet ready for prime time as far a performance goes. My temps are 45 C on CPU at high settings and 42~44 C on my video card. Both temps are with WoW running and with Netflix running at the same time.

[kushlol]

As it is still very CPU bound you're just going to have to get used to the fact that in order to have WoW perform at its best you need an Intel CPU, which offers superior single-thread performance. A Ryzen 7 5800X is only roughly equivalent in this department to an i5-9600K, which is last generation's i5, a 6-core CPU.

The misinformation here is like china communist goverment scary.......EQUIVALENT TO AN I5? OKAY BRO. If your a fanboy, just say that.

[Shakadam]

What resolution are you running at?
Remember, the 3080 is designed for 4k gaming, its 1080p or 1440p performance over the 2080Ti is negligible.

This is wrong.
The relative performance difference between a 3080 and 2080TI decreases as the resolution decreases, but a 3080 is still significantly faster than a 2080TI even at 1080p

As it is still very CPU bound you're just going to have to get used to the fact that in order to have WoW perform at its best you need an Intel CPU, which offers superior single-thread performance. A Ryzen 7 5800X is only roughly equivalent in this department to an i5-9600K, which is last generation's i5, a 6-core CPU.

Also wrong.
At worst a 5800X is equal to a 10700K/10900K, sometimes it's quite a bit better.
There's not much in the way of WoW benchmarks out there but this guy, who did the benchmarks with zen2 and Intel in WoW as well, seems to indicate Zen3 is faster than Intel's best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUad...youtu.be&t=976

The RTX 2080 Ti has similar performance at 1440p to the 3080

If by similar performance you mean it's ~25-30% slower. Which really isn't similar at all.

[Mars_Trueskills]

So I just checked this on my system. The only difference in our machines is I have a 3950x with an RTX 2070 super, boot drive is a Gigabyte Aorus PCIe 4.0 nvme.2, Aorus Master mobo, no overclocking, and I am using a 360mm AIO cooling solution with the system housed in a Lian Li PCO-11 dynamic case with 9 cooling fans

I am averaging 120 FPS in the open world and 70-90 FPS in major hubs. Raytracing only knocks my FPS down about 20 FPS when I enter a major hub. My FPS does not change from setting 7 to max settings. It only goes up in FPS when I drop below setting 7. This is in Retail. In the Shadowlands Beta my FPS drops about 50 FPS across the board. I suspect beta is not yet ready for prime time as far a performance goes. My temps are 45 C on CPU at high settings and 42~44 C on my video card. Both temps are with WoW running and with Netflix running at the same time.

Damn those are some nice temps..

I had trouble fitting all of my components in my case..
So I had to cut a fan from the front (GPU is too thicc), I'm running 2x 140mm and 1x 120mm at the back, don't have space for more.

I'm really suprised by the numbers your system pump out.

[Thunderball]

Sounds pretty normal to me. RT is a very FPS taxing feature.

[meheez]

So what the fuck is this, guys? Im actually planning to buy a zen3 computer. And play alot of wow, do video editing. Are you telling me its shit? Is 5950x overkill?

[Kagthul]

The misinformation here is like china communist goverment scary.......EQUIVALENT TO AN I5? OKAY BRO. If your a fanboy, just say that.

Precisely what do you think is misinformation about this?

WoW is very single-core performance limited.

Thats just a fact, whether its convenient to your beliefs or not.

There's a definite ceiling on how much performance you can get. "Moar coarz!" will literally never help you with WoW performance beyond about 4 cores.

The 5800X is, clock for clock, only marginally faster than a 9600/10600K in single threaded performance, if the Intel CPU is overclocked. ANd maybe isn't depending on silicon quality on that particular 5800X (how far it will boost).

the 5800X is a great CPU, and for a lot of games that are heavily multi-core aware or aren't as CPU bound, its a monster and a great value.

But for WoW.... there is no amount of money that can be spent to fix this "problem", because the problem is created by the nature of the game and its engine sharply limiting Draw Calls in a way that other games, particularly games that dont have 400+ objects on screen controlled by other players, and dont need a secure encrypted connection with the server, are not limited.

The OP apparently didn't realize this and expected to get more performance from his parts, even though there's basically nothing he could have improved from his previous rig, it sounds like.

And FFS people, its not because "the engine is old", its because the engine is a secure client-server setup, meaning ALL Draw Calls MUST wait on server updates. Which are handled by a single networking thread that cant reliably be split into multiple threads.

Ergo, single-core performance will limit WoW (and games like it - ESO, GW2, etc; even PUBG) pretty much forever.

[Temp name]

So what the fuck is this, guys? Im actually planning to buy a zen3 computer. And play alot of wow, do video editing. Are you telling me its shit? Is 5950x overkill?

Wow performs like garbage with every CPU, that isn't new.
Is a 5950x overkill? Probably. Depends how much editing you do

[Your Mommy]

-Snip-

WoW is extremely bad when it comes to optimization. People with stronger machines than you have the same trouble, it isn't anything new.



My heart goes out to people who upgrade their PCs solely for WoW, as they won't notice much difference.

[kukkamies]

The 5800X is, clock for clock, only marginally faster than a 9600/10600K in single threaded performance, if the Intel CPU is overclocked. ANd maybe isn't depending on silicon quality on that particular 5800X (how far it will boost).

What I've found is 10-20% faster. It's not marginal but a lot faster. Pretty much demolishes intel. That's why they raised prices so much too ;_;

[Lahis]

Maybe it's just WoW that's terribly optimized, hope to get some input from people with similar hardware and compare.

WoW ancient is terribly optimized and will never compare to modern games like Doom Eternal.

[Mars_Trueskills]

WoW is extremely bad when it comes to optimization. People with stronger machines than you have the same trouble, it isn't anything new.



My heart goes out to people who upgrade their PCs solely for WoW, as they won't notice much difference.

Hehe, luckily that wasn't the sole purpose..

My previous PC wasn't able to run Cyberpunk or the upcoming titles with high graphics and FPS