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  1. #161
    Blizzard has made it clear that they have carried story themes and narratives across multiple xpacs. It’s possible that it will come up in Shadowlands, or even later depending on how SL unfolds. As a side note, I’d enjoy it if there is another xmog somewhere for remaining loyal as I did this on an alt.
    Blizzard has also made it clear that sometimes a story just gets dropped whether finished or not. It’s possible that this part is over and remaining loyal gets you nothing other than a cutscene that everyone gets to watch.
    She leaves stating that in time we would understand her meaning. Maybe there will be something extra, maybe not. Just going to have to see if something happens in SL.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Queendom View Post
    If the conclusion is the same disregarding choices, what was the point of introducing them in the first place? To create an illusion of choice?
    People wined to be given a choice even when they knew the conclusion of that questline from datamining (which is what started with them wanting an option to begin with). So yes, what they actively asked for is the illusion of choice.

  3. #163
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    This thread is not about real-world politics or the current election, keep the topic grounded on the story of Shadowlands/BfA.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Considering that Joey's policies are likely to be very similar to The Donald's, you actually have a point.
    Besides this statement being objectively incorrect, this thread is about game design (choice in videogames), not real-life politics.

  5. #165
    Immortal FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queendom View Post
    What was the point of introducing branching in BFA war campaign questline if the choices don't have any impact and all we got in the end is Garrosh 2.0?
    Did I miss something here? Was something scrapped out of the game or just not completed at all?
    I don't see any suitable conslusion for those who chose to side with Sylvanas, and now with Nathanos' death there surely be none coming.
    My theory is that Blizzard tried (and failed horribly) to justify Saurfang's betrayal, with player numbers.

    It must have blown up in their faces (hence the fail), because they have never revealed any numbers of how many who were loyal and how few went traitor.
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > ShaLa > MoP > DF > BfA > WoD = WotLK

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  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    My theory is that Blizzard tried (and failed horribly) to justify Saurfang's betrayal, with player numbers.

    It must have blown up in their faces (hence the fail), because they have never revealed any numbers of how many who were loyal and how few went traitor.
    I think you are over thinking it... we are talking about blizzards writing staff. The same group of people that forgot wrathion hated the legion and didn't add him to that expansion then tried to justify it with " well he hated old gods too!". Never mind the whole sword in a plant thing.

    Its been a long time since we had good story telling in wow. I can't really even mark when it died. I want to say wrath maybe cata? Though tbc has a pretty bad storyline.

  7. #167
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    Besides this statement being objectively incorrect, this thread is about game design (choice in videogames), not real-life politics.
    Besides this statement having objectively no historical grounds (not since Reagan, at least) to stand on, the comparison wasn't made by me but by @Karlz0rz in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  8. #168
    Funzies. The point was funzies. Nothing else.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by enderzone View Post
    I think you are over thinking it... we are talking about blizzards writing staff. The same group of people that forgot wrathion hated the legion and didn't add him to that expansion then tried to justify it with " well he hated old gods too!". Never mind the whole sword in a plant thing.

    Its been a long time since we had good story telling in wow. I can't really even mark when it died. I want to say wrath maybe cata? Though tbc has a pretty bad storyline.
    The writing staff lives in a completely isolated bubble, and it seems to be intentional. Also, while BC was more or less a mess, and WotLK had plenty of "WTF Blizz" moments, the narrative was at least largely exempt of Mary Sue's, something I find extremely irritating. Thrall in Cata was cringey enough, but things became even worse in MoP, with all that preachy tone that has impregnated the narrative ever since.
    Last edited by Soon-TM; 2020-11-12 at 01:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    To show who's a simp and who isn't.
    Why was this infraction worthy?
    PROUD TRUMP SUPPORTER, #2024Trump #MAGA
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    BLUE LIVES MATTER
    NO TO ALL GUNCONTROL OR BACKGROUND CHECKS IN EUROPE
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  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Way to miss the point. The thing is, why open the possibility of allying with her if the ending was going to be the same as the rebel choice? Oh, and spare me your morality lessons, I don't need the one Alleria fan in these boards to tell me that her sister is EvVVuUUulL.
    Her sister is EvVVuUUlL! Is that any better?

  12. #172
    Immortal FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enderzone View Post
    I think you are over thinking it... we are talking about blizzards writing staff.
    I don't think I do..

    Why else would the main prize (a toy) be for the betrayal, where you didn't get anything, if you did the right thing and reported traitor(s)?

    It can only be, because Blizzard thought that we would follow them blindly like sheep and side with the traitors. No thank you... I did the right thing on my main and 5 alts, and only went traitor on a single alt to get the toy.
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > ShaLa > MoP > DF > BfA > WoD = WotLK

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  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frolk View Post
    Why was this infraction worthy?
    One of the mods probably picked the loyalist route.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Moose Fandango View Post
    Her sister is EvVVuUUlL! Is that any better?
    I'm afraid I'm not getting your point
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Yes it is. It's exactly the same. You're arguing that because you didn't play through the rest of the story, it didn't happen. But it does. Even if you never play those characters again, which you already have to to keep your convictions, they will still follow the same canon story as everybody else.
    No it is not. Again, I did not partake in any of the Shadoiwlands events. I did not do anything for the Horde Council. Therefore, I did not renounce her. By your absurd logic, I am responsible for the Halocaust, WWII, Vietnam War and all other events despite the fact I wasn't even alive for them simply because they happened. That is now how this works at all. It does not matter if the events happens. I did not partake in it therefore I did not renounce her. Period.

  16. #176
    People got exactly what they asked for.

    It was inevitable that no matter what Blizzard did for the loyalists vs. rebel storyline, no matter how much "effort" they put into stupidly drawing it out with this suggested shit like "traitor titles", being sent to jail, "redemption questlines", making Horde cities unfriendly to people who didn't get with the program once Sylvanas left, or whatever, the two paths would crash back into each other and become the same story again. Inevitable.

    WoW isn't a choose-your-own-adventure game with a dynamic and player-driven story. And that's fine. Blizzard clearly has no intention of writing it that way at all. That's to be expected. People demand that Blizzard try to do it this way, despite the obvious, inevitable end result, and surprise surprise, they're mad when that end result comes to pass.

    And now Blizzard is "lazy", because they're unwilling to jump through flaming hoops to turn this stupid branching plot into something that's impossible to sustain in the long term and that they clearly don't have the heart or desire to try. They're "bad storywriters", not necessarily because the story is bad (it's not great, but that's a different topic), but because they're not writing in the unreasonable way that I want them to write. I want the freedom to decide the story, WoW is my visual novel/single-player RPG.

    It's not about idolizing Sylvanas or wanting a well-written story. Blizzard struggles enough with the story of WoW without the tangled mess that in meaningful player agency shoved in. That doesn't make the story better. All it does is create three sorts of people. People who saw it coming and are okay with how it turned it, people who somehow didn't see it coming, and are eye-rollingly upset, and people who go the extra petty RP mile and decide that they're going to fuck their own game experience over this, like it's actually that type of game. "Well, I'm not gonna play my loyalist characters anymore, if Blizzard is not going to write for me anymore." Do you, I guess.

    There was no point in the loyalist storyline. There was never going to be a point. Blizzard would've been better off just doing the on-the-rails storytelling that they've always been doing, but they sighed and gave this a try anyway. They didn't put their heart into it, because they didn't want to. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if they never tried it again.
    Last edited by CalamityHeart; 2020-11-12 at 03:52 PM.

  17. #177
    Will be satisfying to finally see her go.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Yes.

    Literally this.

    Everyone has begged to be able to choose the bad guy side, knowing the bad guy WILL lose, always.

    That's the choice they allowed this time. It was never a secret that Sylvanas would betray us.

    /thread
    I'm still amazed people were surprised by it all, WoW isn't a game with a deep storyline, the bad guys *always* lose in the end (Usually because the bad guys' evil plan tends to amount to "Kill everybody else", which is bad for the storyline in the long run), and reluctantly or not, the Horde are shoehorned into being the good guys (No matter what they do during their "lapses"), so where this idea that Sylvanas would be the one to win (Or even just stick around as Horde leader) came from is a mystery to me.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    I'm still amazed people were surprised by it all, WoW isn't a game with a deep storyline, the bad guys *always* lose in the end (Usually because the bad guys' evil plan tends to amount to "Kill everybody else", which is bad for the storyline in the long run), and reluctantly or not, the Horde are shoehorned into being the good guys (No matter what they do during their "lapses"), so where this idea that Sylvanas would be the one to win (Or even just stick around as Horde leader) came from is a mystery to me.
    I might have had some faith in the idea if it hadn't been a mid ptr addition added to quell backlash from horde players not wanting to betray Sylvanas and save Saurfang. But given when and why the loyalist route was added it smelled of lazy pandering from the start and it was pretty obvious the Saurfang route was the intended one the whole way through. The game didn't even try, you were doing the exact same quests either way with just a wink and a nod from Nathanos to play along if you were a loyalist.

    Honestly the little chat with Sylvanas at the end of it was far more payoff than I expected loyalists to get.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Sylvanas was just a simple banshee, but he found her worthy of his power because he knew that her idealism would make her an easy pawn.
    Not taking any sides here, but this is all your speculation, no?

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