Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[PhaelixWW]

If you're looking for something that captures all the nuance of a policy(s) in one 3 letter phrase then we might as well shut down the government because it will never happen.

Maybe your problem is that you think the difference between "remove all funding" and "reduce funding a bit" is a nuance.

[Breccia]

Once again, it's time to play Guess the Speaker!

The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history

"Surely some lib'ruhl commie traitor!"

It's the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency.

"Ah, some no-name watchdog group no doubt."

As in cisa.gov

"...but they're not part--"

Part of DHS, yes. Trump's DHS.

"Okay but--"

Wait wait, there's more.

Other security measures like pre-election testing, state certification of voting equipment, and the U.S. Election Assistance Commission’s (EAC) certification of voting equipment help to build additional confidence in the voting systems used in 2020.

"Okay but they didn't directly ref--"

Wait wait wait, there's more.

While we know there are many unfounded claims and opportunities for misinformation about the process of our elections, we can assure you we have the utmost confidence in the security and integrity of our elections, and you should too. When you have questions, turn to elections officials as trusted voices as they administer elections.

Are there any more objections?

[PACOX]

You are missing the bigger picture. Regardless of if it was BIDEN's slogan, it was a slogan associated with the Democratic party which he was running under. Similar to how Republican's who back the KKK openly risk having that impact the non-racists voters even if they aren't voting for that person.

That slogan was still associated with anyone that ran on the Democratic ticket and the Republicans made sure to try and pin that on all of them. I am not buying the Republican's argument, you are failing to see the forest from the trees on this one man.

And I never said anything about "If only the Democrats were more right wing" you can stop that Yuffie level shit right there buddy.....


Ok, lets try this again.

Don't pretend people are as informed as you are, or I am, or Endus is, or Cubby is, or any of us. Most aren't.

That Slogan when it came out, was a horrible one and actively ignored the important part of the actual policy while focusing on the part that people would dislike by itself. Instead of actually spinning that message into a more descriptive and positive one that actually reflected what they were trying to do, the Democrats left it and let the Republicans control the messaging on it with that bad slogan.

Now, while Biden didn't campaign on it and actively said he would not, the fact is that that slogan was never corrected and attached to the Democratic party and every one in it, including Biden. And the Republicans made it a point to make sure that label was pinned to them all.

That actually COST them votes and potentially even seats because the average voter didn't hear the full policy, the average voter didn't actively hear Biden say he wouldn't defund the police, the average voter did hear ad after ad talking about it though.

The average voter isn't on MMO-Champion/politics section on the forums or any forum for that matter, whether on facebook or anywhere else. You have to take that into account.

If they don't stop letting others control the messaging on their policies, they will continue to lose votes because of it.

You know you are right that the slogan cost seats but for the wrong reasons. Democrats are underperforming with minorities because the discussion is about a dumb ass slogan instead of the policy itself.

Its obvious people don't realize how unattractive it is to the minority voter when Democrats bend over backwards to Republican misinformation, even going as far to cosign it.

[postman1782]

Given that this is the first I'm hearing of it, I can only hope that means it's as utterly irrelevant as I think it is. Wow, it claims to be non-partisan and has a whole fuckin section for Rasmussen numbers.

Top kek.

Nope, I use the "SmartNews" app on my phone, and they get fucking promoted on it, even after he was fired from the Hill for lying.

[Fugus]

Okay I will say this again another way Donald Trump is a very polarizing figure so much so family members fight and don't talk about him. You should perhaps consider the possibility that the people you know lied and just needed an excuse to vote for him in secret. I mean no offense but I know several people who voted for him in 2016 and 2020 but would never admit to it because that conversation never goes well.

Again you don't need to be an MMO-C person to know Donald Trump is an incompetent racist fuck if that is outweigh by defund the police that is an indication of the kind of person you are dealing with.

I understand Trump is a polarizing figure, but at the same time, that doesn't change a single thing about what we have been trying to tell you. I honestly could see that with some of them but not all of them and the main ones I have seen who would do that already gave clues that they leaned his way with the stuff they say.

You keep thinking I am talking specifically about the politicians themselves, I am not. I am not talking about Biden, or Trump, or Sanders, or Clinton, or Bush, or Harris, or Pence, or ANY of them. I am talking about the policies and their names versus their support and how that can positively or negatively impact support and voter turn out.

And for you to claim that people wouldn't vote for just because of poorly worded Slogan, that is just wrong, we have actual proof of that, we have whole classes in educating people around it for business. Both on making good ones for you and pinning bad ones onto your competition.

This is something I have tried my best to teach my nieces and nephews growing up but, How you say something can be just about as important as the message you are trying to convey and if you do it poorly you will fail to send it or even send the opposite.

This is the entire thing I am trying to get through to you, but you keep thinking I am talking about Biden or Trump specifically or think that people will understand what "Defund the Police" means without reading up on it when what it actually means isn't even hinted at in the slogan. Nowhere in that does it talk about diverting the funding to programs to help them, it just says "Cut Police Funding" which is bad enough but is phrased in a way that typically implies cutting ALL of the funding.

Edit: And plenty of people think Defund means abolish thanks to the efforts of the ACA and Planned Parenthood where they mean remove all funding.

- - - Updated - - -

You know you are right that the slogan cost seats but for the wrong reasons. Democrats are underperforming with minorities because the discussion is about a dumb ass slogan instead of the policy itself.

Its obvious people don't realize how unattractive it is to the minority voter when Democrats bend over backwards to Republican misinformation, even going as far to cosign it.

You are making excuses on this one to deny the facts.

They literally lost votes because people were afraid the Democrats were trying to cut the police as the slogan implied. They also lost votes because many minorities in Florida equate Socialism with what they escaped from and the Republicans pinned that onto Biden as well because again, the Republicans got to control the messaging.

You ignoring these facts won't change them and trying to claim people are losing because of bickering about a name doesn't change it either, it is just you distracting from the issue that is actually costing them votes.


Many voters don't take the time to look at the policies in depth so that "Dumbass Slogan" is what they are going on, and that Dumbass Slogan leads people to think they are cutting some or likely ALL of the police funding by the wording on the slogan and how those words were used in the past.

[Draco-Onis]

I understand Trump is a polarizing figure, but at the same time, that doesn't change a single thing about what we have been trying to tell you. I honestly could see that with some of them but not all of them and the main ones I have seen who would do that already gave clues that they leaned his way with the stuff they say.

You keep thinking I am talking specifically about the politicians themselves, I am not. I am not talking about Biden, or Trump, or Sanders, or Clinton, or Bush, or Harris, or Pence, or ANY of them. I am talking about the policies and their names versus their support and how that can positively or negatively impact support and voter turn out.

And for you to claim that people wouldn't vote for just because of poorly worded Slogan, that is just wrong, we have actual proof of that, we have whole classes in educating people around it for business. Both on making good ones for you and pinning bad ones onto your competition.

This is something I have tried my best to teach my nieces and nephews growing up but, How you say something can be just about as important as the message you are trying to convey and if you do it poorly you will fail to send it or even send the opposite.

This is the entire thing I am trying to get through to you, but you keep thinking I am talking about Biden or Trump specifically or think that people will understand what "Defund the Police" means without reading up on it when what it actually means isn't even hinted at in the slogan. Nowhere in that does it talk about diverting the funding to programs to help them, it just says "Cut Police Funding" which is bad enough but is phrased in a way that typically implies cutting ALL of the funding.

Edit: And plenty of people think Defund means abolish thanks to the efforts of the ACA and Planned Parenthood where they mean remove all funding.

Let me summarize your argument 4 years of non stop coverage of Trump being Trump didn't turn them against him but a few months of defund the police changed their minds? does that make any sense to you? you are right slogans matter absent another narrative which is Donald Trump so no I don't see how that makes any sense.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I'm gonna lose my fucking shit if Democrats don't go HARD on this point in these elections.

Like, fuck. What better way to get someone to vote your way then LITERALLY GIVING THEM MONEY, DIRECTLY. Like fuck.

If Democrats fuck this one up they are really fucking hopeless.

Here's the reality about Georgia: It's been a Republican stronghold for many years. It flipped blue for Biden, but just barely. A huge number of those voters are people who HATE Trump but still swing Republican and will likely vote for Republican Senators still. "Getting money for free from the government" is probably one of the last thing Republicans want hanging in front of themselves. The Republican candidates will likely scream socialism and win. You can't appeal to people who swing right with free money for covid relief, and I wouldn't really blame democrats if they lost.

If anything, these senate races will show how much of a miracle it was that Biden even won the state. I could be wrong and Democrats may win the seats, but I think that now that the general election is over, the people who wanted Trump out are done with elections, and the blue vote is going to be much more insignificant in runoffs. That's just how things swing in red states.

[Fugus]

@PACOX

Lets go back to the car analogy, the driver might know the words Radiator, Carburetor, Transmission, Spark Plug, Fly Wheel and stuff like that, but they largely can't go much into detail on them and don't care to, they just want it to work. That is the level of involved many of these voters are.

So while they might hear slogans or phrases, they don't know the ins and outs of what those phrases are at a detailed level so....

"Defund the Police" without actually referring to the policy itself and going just by that, tell me the part they will support.

[Benggaul]

It baffles me that you folks are still talking about slogans, ffs.

Is there seriously nothing remotely better to be discussing? Fuck me sideways.

Evidently not. We're waiting on final counts and laughing at Trump's court losses.

[beanman12345]

It baffles me that you folks are still talking about slogans, ffs.

Is there seriously nothing remotely better to be discussing? Fuck me sideways.

we're in a lull moment waiting for more trump bullshit to appear.

edit - haha @Benggaul you read my mind every time!!!

[Draco-Onis]

It baffles me that you folks are still talking about slogans, ffs.

Is there seriously nothing remotely better to be discussing? Fuck me sideways.

Well it's either that or talk about how Trump is hallowing the government with more extremists that believe in using the US armed forces against the populace. He has just put some crazies in DHS just today, he may be thinking of a hostile stay in power.

[Benggaul]

If anything, these senate races will show how much of a miracle it was that Biden even won the state. I could be wrong and Democrats may win the seats, but I think that now that the general election is over, the people who wanted Trump out are done with elections, and the blue vote is going to be much more insignificant in runoffs. That's just how things swing in red states.

One of the Democrat candidates was pretty far ahead in their race. Unfortunately they didn't get the 50% required. I think there can be reasonable optimism that he might pull out a win, but it will require a lot of campaigning and help from Abrams' registration army. I don't think they'll be able to win both races, however.

[Fugus]

Let me summarize your argument 4 years of non stop coverage of Trump being Trump didn't turn them against him but a few months of defund the police changed their minds? does that make any sense to you? you are right slogans matter absent another narrative which is Donald Trump so no I don't see how that makes any sense.

No, not quite. 4 years of non-stop coverage about stuff these people largely didn't care about and largely weren't paying attention or only cared a little about and very little they wanted to vote for, then you got this other guy on the other side talking about defunding the police. Think of it in that context.

They only knew that stuff was improving under Trump before the virus, they didn't know it had slowed and it didn't have a huge direct impact on them fast enough to notice either way, same as under Obama. They didn't care about his taxes, they didn't care about his dads taxes, they didn't care about the deficit as they didn't impact them directly and many of them just here the debt and their eye's glaze over. But removing the police, THAT catches their ears.

You have to look at it from the perspective of people who AREN'T politically active.

[Draco-Onis]

No, not quite. 4 years of non-stop coverage about stuff these people largely didn't care about and largely weren't paying attention or only cared a little about and very little they wanted to vote for, then you got this other guy on the other side talking about defunding the police. Think of it in that context.

They only knew that stuff was improving under Trump before the virus, they didn't know it had slowed and it didn't have a huge direct impact on them fast enough to notice either way, same as under Obama. They didn't care about his taxes, they didn't care about his dads taxes, they didn't care about the deficit as they didn't impact them directly and many of them just here the debt and their eye's glaze over. But removing the police, THAT catches their ears.

You have to look at it from the perspective of people who AREN'T politically active.

Which is it? are they inactive or active? if they are as inactive as you say why would they know about defund the police? it's gotten more or less the same coverage as Trump's many many scandals. They are either clueless or are plugged in somewhat they cannot be both, I think you are making excuses for them.

[Fugus]

Which is it? are they inactive or active? if they are as inactive as you say why would they know about defund the police? it's gotten more or less the same coverage as Trump's many many scandals. They are either clueless or are plugged in somewhat they cannot be both, I think you are making excuses for them.

I didn't say active vs inactive, I said informed vs uninformed.

Where did they hear "Defund the Police"? The countless ads I have seen on Hulu would be a good place. But how many of those scandals do you think impact them as much as getting rid of or cutting the police would?

I don't even watch TV hardly any and even I have caught a few of them. Remember like 14 BILLION was spent this election.

[PACOX]

You are making excuses on this one to deny the facts.

They literally lost votes because people were afraid the Democrats were trying to cut the police as the slogan implied. They also lost votes because many minorities in Florida equate Socialism with what they escaped from and the Republicans pinned that onto Biden as well because again, the Republicans got to control the messaging.

You ignoring these facts won't change them and trying to claim people are losing because of bickering about a name doesn't change it either, it is just you distracting from the issue that is actually costing them votes.


Many voters don't take the time to look at the policies in depth so that "Dumbass Slogan" is what they are going on, and that Dumbass Slogan leads people to think they are cutting some or likely ALL of the police funding by the wording on the slogan and how those words were used in the past.

The party has been underperforming well before 'Defund the police' entered the political sphere. The reaction to to the movement only adds to negative emotions towards the party. So you're right, it's not JUST about the slogan. It's about a pattern of disappointing behavior.

[kaelleria]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...9#post52805419

Lets Make the 2020 GE Thread Great Again!

M2020GETGA

[Draco-Onis]

I didn't say active vs inactive, I said informed vs uninformed.

Where did they hear "Defund the Police"? The countless ads I have seen on Hulu would be a good place. But how many of those scandals do you think impact them as much as getting rid of or cutting the police would?

The impeachment, COVID-19, Charlottesville, Do you want a list? there were also countless ads talking about other things so you are contradicting yourself. The only way that would make sense is if they were in a coma for 4 years and this is the first ad they saw.

[Fugus]

The party has been underperforming well before 'Defund the police' entered the political sphere. The reaction to to the movement only adds to negative emotions towards the party. So you're right, it's not JUST about the slogan. It's about a pattern of disappointing behavior.

Now that we can both agree on. It is generally them being weak, refusing to go on the offensive as well as them letting the Republicans control the messaging.

I was never talking about any of the individual politicians themselves beyond how this bad slogan impacted the perception and voting among them. If they had just corrected that, the might have actually won more seats but that allowed for a lot of fear mongering that they did little to push back on.

[PACOX]

@PACOX

Lets go back to the car analogy, the driver might know the words Radiator, Carburetor, Transmission, Spark Plug, Fly Wheel and stuff like that, but they largely can't go much into detail on them and don't care to, they just want it to work. That is the level of involved many of these voters are.

So while they might hear slogans or phrases, they don't know the ins and outs of what those phrases are at a detailed level so....

"Defund the Police" without actually referring to the policy itself and going just by that, tell me the part they will support.

2020 has been a long year, I know, but when when activists started to say 'Defund the police' it was immediately backed up policy and examples. Immediately. Spokespeople were sure to explain what 'defund the police' means, damn near ad nauseum.

Democrats chose the the lazy route where they chose to appease Republicans instead of work with the cause...and it cost the party seats.