Covenants - making the 'wrong' choice

[dcc626]

They will get balanced and or decoupled from cov choice very shortly after release if there are huge disparities between them that they cannot fix. Don't worry about it too much.

no, they wont. ill go one step further - they wontg let yopu swap easily until it doesnt matter anymore (ie 9.3) or ever.

covenants were designed as abilities that tie to soulbinds and the aesthetic. they arent going to decouple the powers. get ready to riot i guess.

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The only wrong choice is picking a covenant you hate for an ability that'll inevitably get nerfed.

i think they have flattened most of the covenants well enough that the only changes made when live are buffs. small ones.

so you likely will regret the choice if you choose strictly on power at launch.

like most other things in the game.

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Such a non issue. Think of soulbinds just like an extra talent tree. Sometimes you will need to respec.

In fact, progression raiders are not choosing 'the best covenant'. They are choosing the best covenant for every given week. For example, early on before you fill in the tree, covenant A can be strongest. But when you get to week 4 it gets surpassed by covenant B, which is when you change covenant. Get used to this.

and most soulbinds actual power is in the very first trait, that yuou get immediately. thats why they flipped them. dont worry, getting satchels with fish in it or 5% mount speed certainly wont break the game.

[sailorman]

You don't have to.

But I want to. I'm asking, if the choice doesn't matter, then what is the point? Isn't that the opposite of what Blizzard wanted to achieve? They wanted our choice to matter.

[Baconeggcheese]

What fallacy is this?

That throughput... or honestly anything and everything these days since this has basically become a meme... only matters to the top % of players.

[sailorman]

According to so many threads here, the choice does matter. Apparently you never get invited into mythic+ keys with "the wrong choice"

So really it is up to every individual to decide if that is all BS or if the choice does / does not matter

I decided for myself that all I care about is the cosmetic and RP choice for my characters...and that I want to experience all covenants on different characters.

If players get to a point where they only care about cosmetics, I think the game has failed as an RPG.

[chiddie]

Don't pay attention to lists that just list the best thing without telling you how far behind the other choices are. Those lists are for world first raiders.

If the other covenants and 1-2% behind, but you like that covenant alot more, pick that one.

Problem in the problem, there are classes (like my pandaren shaman) for which basically every covenant feels a wrong choice, rpg wise.

From “barely fit” to “zero fit” I would say the order is night fae-kyrian-venthyr-necrolord. I don’t raid, so I can at least avoid necrolord and noone suggests night fae , I will probably have to stick with angels or vampires. (Not so) WoW.

[Zenfoldor]

On covenant balance, as mentioned it really doesn't matter, and it makes little difference for many in reality.

This is all about community perception and cognitive dissonance.

Once someone makes their choice, they will look to justify it by arguing that different choices are incorrect. It happens in everything. ESPECIALLY WoW. When has the PUG world ever forgiving of the "wrong" spec choice, according to community perception?

This is a huge feature of the xpak, everybody will have it on the forefront of their minds and be looking to defend their actions(which in this case is their covenant choice) by not inviting(also probably whispering said person to tell them WHY the didn't pick them) those who made other choices. Many group leaders who are insecure about their own choice, will look to justify it in the court of public opinion.

If you are arguing to try and change community perception, that is a good argument. If you are arguing to try and change the theory that WoW is ruled by community perception, you're gonna have a tough time changing that imo.

[Eazy]

Let's hear about them.

Rogue Necrolords are OP in PvP(everlasting bleed) and the additional ability Fleshcraft is much more usefull and stronger compared to other abilities.

Or is it "everybody knows...go look it up"?

That's stupid. Why would it be like that?

[Nurasu]

Eh no. What you say would be true if every type of content in the game is standing in front of a target dummy.

There are so many other factors of playing this game that your ability to produce a number is not even remotely the most important thing.

In group content your ability to do mechanics, be a teamplayer, be reliable, show up, dont be an idiot, function with other people is far more important than a 10% dps or hps increase.

I have been involved in guild recruitment for 15 years and I have seen people with your mindset coming into raiding guilds with their optimized playstyle but they can't function in a raid environment.

Even at mythic raiding level, your numbers is not what helps the guild kill bosses. If only your are absolutely perfect in terms of execution of mechanics, functioning socially, can have 100% attendance etc then your optimal minmax thing will put you ahead of other people. But hardly anyone is that person.

Even your internet connection matters more to me than your covenant choice.

So many have this mindset of the game completely backwards and it makes running semi hardcore and average guilds a nightmare because people are so numbers focused. But every time a raid leader or guild leader has a problem that needs solving, more numbers is almost never the solution.

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You seem to forget the most important thing though. All those mediocre baseball players who buys the 10% better baseball bat and plays against another team, will most likely loose as the the team realized that baseball is a hell of a lot more than just hitting 10% longer or not.

Then your team will sit there and not understanding why they lost while they had better baseball bats. And then the reality is that the other team practiced 40% more or picked a better strategy.

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This is just flat out wrong. If you have 2 bad raid groups and both are doing it wrong. 50% more of anything wont make the difference.

Some times you can cheese content by just outdpsing something to the point where a mechanic becomes irrelevant, but thats not a reliable strategy at all.

You point is only valid among world top 5 guild where actually every other single contributing factor to achieve results have allready been maximized. That scenario is almost never the case for anyone.

You're delusional if you think handing someone a 15% dps increase without requiring any other change on their part is not going to be helpful to them.

Your assumptions are also completely backwards, because a raid group that optimizes their covenants are going to better players on top of getting the dps boost than the players who did not optimize their covenants.

[sailorman]

Once someone makes their choice, they will look to justify it by arguing that different choices are incorrect.

Except you can objectively tell which choice is better.

[sailorman]

Which is funny..because RPG means ROLE playing game. But ofc I am interested to know what makes an RPG succeed in your opinion. (Spoilers: IMHO WoW has "succeeded" as an RPGMMO, but feel free to prove me wrong and tell me what game actually did)

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Meh..you know...ppl tend to be like that. As for the rogue thing....I shall watch this space and see if rogues really pwn pvp and dominate it by their covenant choice.

RPGs are about developing your character. Only caring about cosmetics means not caring about character development (gaining levels, getting better gear, getting better abilties, increasing your stats etc.). If you only care about cosmetics you're essentially playing a dress-up simulator.

[enderzone]

Isn't this argument the same as why should you bother gemming and enchanting your gear?

Guilds that raid mythic and some heroic guilds will care but mythic+ at least those that play to cap a chest wont do anything beyond look at your raider io. Yes covenants matter greatly if you want to do harder content. Yes they will most likely define if a spec is viable or not but I don't get why people who where never going to optimize their are so keen to chime in on the topic.

[sailorman]

Well...I guess it is "thanks for educating me"...especially in the light of not being able to get cosmetics unless you actually level up and get better gear. So...good luck getting all the latest good lucking shit...mounts...etc at level 1...or 10...or 30...

...oh wait..you actually have the best chance at all this when you are max level.

Maybe it's your lousy grammar, but it's really hard to understand what you mean. Do you mean WoW is a good RPG because if you want the best possible chances at cosmetic stuff, you have a good reason to be max level?

I mean if the only reason you wanna be max level is because you want to have an easier time farming mounts, and I have to repeat myself, I think your game has stopped being a good RPG. And it's essentially just a dress-up simulator now.

[sailorman]

Yeah..it probably is my "lousy grammar" - after 30 years working in jobs that required me to be fluent in two languages...it totally is that. What a relief to be finally found out what an imposter I am on a gaming forum.

Well you should put more effort into writing your posts then.

[Nurasu]

Yeah..it probably is my "lousy grammar" - after 30 years working in jobs that required me to be fluent in two languages...it totally is that. What a relief to be finally found out what an imposter I am on a gaming forum.

Try not abusing the shit out of ellipses.

[Swnem]

No, it doesnt matter for the 98%.

I know you people dont like random numbers but it is how it is.

A 10% dps boost might matter up to like World 200 guild and a few thousand min/maxers that are burnt out of serious content for different reasons and want their character to be the best even in their casual state but still play decently/proper level.

The other few million players that come and go throughout the life on an expansion , no it does not matter cause they are already playing the game , i dont know call it however you want, bad, wrong, low skilled.

The little Billies that are the 98% wont magically play their class properly, they wont magically lets say, 3 months into the patch, with all the freebie gear, they are supposed to be doing, imaginary number XXXXX as DPS, but they do XXXXX-85%, the 10% does not matter, cause the 10% of that XXXXX-85%, is really low.

I gave up giving the benefit of the doubt to the players of WoW and the pug world, i simply accept it as it is,insanely low skilled for the way i play thats why i avoid it and have my own little "community" of some very high, some less skilled players, but definitely not in the 98%.

I sound like some elitist asshole, but i aint, i have helped many people, some improve, some dont, but after 16 years in this game i simply dont care what the little Billies are doing.

That is utter nonsense. Every group likes killing bosses. This will affect every group.

People adopt the path of least resistance. That path includes doing more damage and making encounters easier.

So, an individual might not care, but that is just telling the others in the group to carry them. Some might, others might not.

[sailorman]

Eternally grateful of being educated by you guys. I shall do my best in the future convincing you on my point of view not with arguments, but with whatever counts as proper grammar to you.

It's never too late to learn.

[kaminaris]

Eh no. What you say would be true if every type of content in the game is standing in front of a target dummy.

There are so many other factors of playing this game that your ability to produce a number is not even remotely the most important thing.

In group content your ability to do mechanics, be a teamplayer, be reliable, show up, dont be an idiot, function with other people is far more important than a 10% dps or hps increase.

I have been involved in guild recruitment for 15 years and I have seen people with your mindset coming into raiding guilds with their optimized playstyle but they can't function in a raid environment.

Even at mythic raiding level, your numbers is not what helps the guild kill bosses. If only your are absolutely perfect in terms of execution of mechanics, functioning socially, can have 100% attendance etc then your optimal minmax thing will put you ahead of other people. But hardly anyone is that person.

Even your internet connection matters more to me than your covenant choice.

So many have this mindset of the game completely backwards and it makes running semi hardcore and average guilds a nightmare because people are so numbers focused. But every time a raid leader or guild leader has a problem that needs solving, more numbers is almost never the solution.

Ok we have new best and most accurate comment here. Good to see someone with actual experience and knowledge on the forums.

[Musta]

What i told myself was "fuck the covenant abilities, they will never get it right, ill just pick the covenant i want to know the story"

[MrLachyG]

there is no wrong choice, there is only Zuul

[Echo of Soul]

I think I'll have to relay this wise statement to literally every lolret eboladin out there who deals ~40-50% of his damage in M+ runs via their obnoxious Divine storm. And Blizzard seem to be comfy buffing that ability even further.

Divine Storm is on a short "cooldown" and is a AOE ability. Imagine taking all that damage baked in to a 2 minute cooldown, it would annihilate an entire BG.

So no. Covenant abilities won't contribute to 15% of your overall DPS and one ability most definitely won't increase your DPS by 15% more than another.

Imagine PvP with people running around with nukes like that, nothing would survive.