Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Ripster42]

He got his ass whooped for because of the slogan or because he is in a red state? Which one?

I never denied GOP attacks. I said the attacks are inevitable so candidates better learn how to deal with them. Blaming people who have nothing to do their campaign isn't dealing with it, it's crying and making excuses.

The Moderates who lost their seats fumbled on their own terms with larger problems with a recent slogan.

You do realize that coming up with slogans that aren't self defeating is one of the lessons that should be learned form this right? The plain meaning of the slogan does not paint a good picture. It doesn't matter what the actual message is, the slogan is awful and the movement desperately needs new messaging. I say this as a person who agrees with the actual message: a lot of money would be much better spent on things other than police and prisons even if you're solely worried about crime and don't care about police brutality at all.

Claiming that leftwing/progressive groups don't have anything to do with democrat politicians, even if they're not formally associated, is a fairly ignorant position to take. It ignores political reality. You might not like it, you might deplore the situation, but politics in the US is very much a team sport for a large section of the population. Messages like "Defund the Police" are a rallying cry much more than 1/2 the voting public. The problem is, it motivates all of one side (the right) and only part of the other, almost solely because it's such a terrible slogan and many hate having to defend and explain such clearly poor messaging. All this while scaring off ignorant independents who just see a bunch of racists and anarchists and are having a hard time choosing between the two. Stop making the decision difficult for the semi-literate.

Edit:

You can't show me that 'defund the police' was the breaking point. Anyone with a just an ear to US can lists off more concrete factors that contributed to those lost elections. The party has been underperforming for some time.

So stop throwing bricks on top of them while they're drowning.

[Draco-Onis]

Harrison was beginning to push ahead. He was making inroads with white voters that he needed. He lost because the GOP reminded them that rioting and looting is what he allegedly represents.
When did you become politically ignorant?
You have to know your electorate...what they want. It's as if AOC was doing her best to ensure losses.

He lost because he was running in South Carolina, I am not sure what drugs these pollsters were smoking but it must have been the same one that told them Texas and Florida were going to go blue. Honestly look at the state they would literally elect a dead corpse before a democrat.

[Antiganon]

Harrison was beginning to push ahead. He was making inroads with white voters that he needed. He lost because the GOP reminded them that rioting and looting is what he allegedly represents.
When did you become politically ignorant?
You have to know your electorate...what they want. It's as if AOC was doing her best to ensure losses.

I'd dispute that. AOC spoke to her district in a way that her district was receptive to.

Party leadership/DCCC/DSCC should make clear that one candidate on the far left wing of the party doesn't represent the entire party, and they should have offered more than lukewarm support to embattled moderates.

The slogan is bad. They were bad at reframing the conversation about the slogan.

These are not mutually exclusive ideas.

[Shadowferal]

He lost because he was running in South Carolina, I am not sure what drugs these pollsters were smoking but it must have been the same one that told them Texas and Florida were going to go blue. Honestly look at the state they would literally elect a dead corpse before a democrat.

Well, two of the reps are Democrat...in a lot of red. So there was some hope that maybe they'd vote in a dem senator.

[beanman12345]

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2020/11...14th-district/

Oh boy, Republicans that lost their elections are already showing up to orientations and acting like they totes didn't lose.

The fucking complete detachment from reality is real.

Oberweis is... special.

[PACOX]

This image is from Feb. Tell me Democrats weren't having problems before May.

Who remembers what the party did to piss people off late 2019 early 2020? What did they totally screw up, causing Democrats and Republicans to against the party for different reasons?

Sure was a slogan, that would be a thing for a few more months.

[Egomaniac]

Are we still arguing over whether "defund the police" is a good slogan?

It isn't. It's a good concept with a bad slogan.

"The point of public relations slogans like “Support our troops” is that they don’t mean anything… That’s the whole point of good propaganda. You want to create a slogan that nobody’s going to be against, and everybody’s going to be for. Nobody knows what it means, because it doesn’t mean anything. Its crucial value is that it diverts your attention from a question that does mean something: Do you support our policy? That’s the one you’re not allowed to talk about."

- Noam Chomsky.

"Support Our Troops" is vague but it sounds positive so nobody questions it. It conjures imagery of brave men and women fighting for their country and way of life and lets you feel like a good person for supporting them. And it covers up the actual meaning... which is "Support the Military-Industrial Complex".

Defund the Police is also vague but doesn't come across as positive. It just sounds like you are trying to take money away from Law Enforcement without saying where that money would go. It doesn't say you want to use money that would go to perpetuate the status quo and instead invest it into other means of improving public safety. It doesn't communicate that it would also take some of that money and put it towards giving better training for the police in de-escalation and dealing with the mentally ill. And these are concepts that, once explained, a lot of people can get behind. But the Slogan doesn't communicate the ideas very well.

[Breccia]

Once again it's time for Guess the Speaker!

You lose a lot if the transition is delayed because the new people are not allowed to get their head in the game..

The president, with all due respect, does not have to concede. But it’s about the nation. It hurts our national security because the people who should be getting [up to speed], it’s not a process where you go from zero to 1,000 miles per hour.

I know Mr. Trump better than most people do. I know that he’ll never accept defeat and, in fact, he doesn’t have to accept defeat here. He just has to do what’s best for the country and in the country’s interest.”

That's John Kelly,

Kelly gave an interview to Politico and another to CNN. In both, he said basically the same thing -- Trump needs to what's right for the country and the Constitution. I don't know what rock he was living under that he thinks Trump would do that.

[Benggaul]

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2020/11...14th-district/

Oh boy, Republicans that lost their elections are already showing up to orientations and acting like they totes didn't lose.

The fucking complete detachment from reality is real.

Ehhh it says in the article he was invited to attend because it's a race subject to a recount. It doesn't look like it'll change the outcome, but it looks like it might not be entirely on him.

[Kaleredar]

Are we still arguing over whether "defund the police" is a good slogan?

It isn't. It's a good concept with a bad slogan.



- Noam Chomsky.

"Support Our Troops" is vague but it sounds positive so nobody questions it. It conjures imagery of brave men and women fighting for their country and way of life and lets you feel like a good person for supporting them. And it covers up the actual meaning... which is "Support the Military-Industrial Complex".

Defund the Police is also vague but doesn't come across as positive. It just sounds like you are trying to take money away from Law Enforcement without saying where that money would go. It doesn't say you want to use money that would go to perpetuate the status quo and instead invest it into other means of improving public safety. It doesn't communicate that it would also take some of that money and put it towards giving better training for the police in de-escalation and dealing with the mentally ill. And these are concepts that, once explained, a lot of people can get behind. But the Slogan doesn't communicate the ideas very well.

To that point let's frame this in a different way: There's a reason that it's called "Pro-choice movement" and not the "pro-abortion movement."

Doesn't matter if every other thing surrounding the movement is the same. Doesn't matter if people think that "people should educate themselves to the true meaning of the movement before they go judging it's name, and it's really about a woman's right to bodily autonomy when you get past the title." Simple fact of the matter is that banners with "I'm pro-abortion" and "vote yes for abortion" are not going to get nearly the same amount of support as "I'm pro-choice" are.

Will republicans attack "pro-choice," or any other slogan whose aim they disagree with for whatever reason? Yes. But they have to add their own layer of nuance to do so in explaining what something as positively named as "pro-choice" is and why they think it's bad, and in that explanation they've already invited people to seek out alternative explanations and they've lost the attack on the first read. But a slogan they can dismiss offhand, like something as ill-named as "pro-abortion" or like what they try and do with "defund the police?" That's just an easy win for them.

[Ripster42]

This image is from Feb. Tell me Democrats weren't having problems before May.

Let me know when you figure out that piling on isn't a form of helping. Or that most of the people here (I think) aren't saying it's the only problem.

[Bodakane]

There's a reason that "Pro-choice" isn't called the "pro-abortion movement."

Because its not about being in favor of abortion but more about a woman being able to choose what happens with her body?

[Egomaniac]

There's a reason that "Pro-choice" isn't called the "pro-abortion movement."

And the same goes for "Pro-Life" instead of "Anti-Choice"

[Kaleredar]

Because its not about being in favor of abortion but more about a woman being able to choose what happens with her body?

"Oh but you see, pro-abortion is just the slogan name, it's actually about a woman's right to bodily autonomy! The slogan name doesn't matter!"

"Oh but you see, defund the police is just the slogan name, it's actually about reallocating and funding numerous social programs to supplement the police department! The slogan name doesn't matter!"

And the same goes for "Pro-Life" instead of "Anti-Choice"

Exactly. The republicans are literally running on "anti-choice" as what "pro-life" actually means, but they've retitled it "pro-life" because that sounds so much cozier.

[Egomaniac]

Because its not about being in favor of abortion but more about a woman being able to choose what happens with her body?

Sure, and isn't it nice when a slogan can communicate what it means so effectively?

"Defund the Police" just sounds like you want to take money away from the police. It doesn't say anything about how you would re-invest that money to improve public safety...which is the entire point.

[Xeones]

He lost because he was running in South Carolina, I am not sure what drugs these pollsters were smoking but it must have been the same one that told them Texas and Florida were going to go blue. Honestly look at the state they would literally elect a dead corpse before a democrat.

I thought people were smoking when people were saying GA was going to go blue and that happened.

[nonameelf]

Laura Ingraham's show tonight on Fox is dedicated to bitching about Biden not being left enough after Fox spent months fearmongering about how far left Biden supposedly is.

Bonus points for her bitching about the media not being left enough and in line with Biden's positions at the same time. Finally someone at Fox realizes the media bias isn't to the left.

Oh wait, she probably lacks the self awareness to realize what she was really saying.

[Kaleredar]

Laura Ingraham's show tonight on Fox is dedicated to bitching about Biden not being left enough after Fox spent months fearmongering about how far left Biden supposedly is.

Bonus points for her bitching about the media not being left enough and in line with Biden's positions at the same time. Finally someone at Fox realizes the media bias isn't to the left.

Oh wait, she probably lacks the self awareness to realize what she was really saying.

It's their new marching orders. They smell the division in the left and know they can't get anywhere propping up right-wing politics following Trump's defeat, so in order to push their general narrative they have to stoke that division.

[Bodakane]

Sure, and isn't it nice when a slogan can communicate what it means so effectively?

"Defund the Police" just sounds like you want to take money away from the police. It doesn't say anything about how you would re-invest that money to improve public safety...which is the entire point.

The democrats didn't invent "Defund the police" as a policy slogan. It wasn't invented in the streets in fits of sadness and rage.

But I guess the dems should have rebranded it to "The police have become to militarized and since if your only tool is a hammer, then all your problems look like nails we need to take the funding from military style weapons and gear and in turn give that to other programs better equipped to deal with mental illness or into education".

Remember that time, a football player quietly and respectfully knelt during the anthem just like a Navy Seal suggested he do....no way to misconstrue that...oh wait....

When will you people realize it doesn't;t matter what we call anything....the repubs will ratfuck it? We are talking about the very same people that painted Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton as straight up socialists.

[nonameelf]

It's their new marching orders. They smell the division in the left and know they can't get anywhere propping up right-wing politics following Trump's defeat, so in order to push their general narrative they have to stoke that division.

I don't know, after that she went into a rant about how the Republicans need to win the senate to stop Biden from being a pro-corporation capitalist and it was just fucking surreal.