Medivh's 9.0 raiders godbook is out!

[Mercarcher]

https://bit.ly/Medivh_guide_9_0_English

English version is up!

[Revamp Man]

casual hardcore guild....4 toons

so many problems with just taht lol

[Mercarcher]

casual hardcore guild....4 toons

so many problems with just taht lol

I dont see an issue with that, my guild is a "casual hardcore" in that we only raid 9 hours/week, but we still require everyone to have at least 2 alts that are raid ready, and our goal is Hall of Fame.

Its a guide mostly meant for those looking at digging around the hall of fame level of raiding.

[Revamp Man]

I dont see an issue with that, my guild is a "casual hardcore" in that we only raid 9 hours/week, but we still require everyone to have at least 2 alts that are raid ready, and our goal is Hall of Fame.

Its a guide mostly meant for those looking at digging around the hall of fame level of raiding.

casual and hardcore dont go together especialy when you aim for hall of fame

that is just hardcore

[Queendom]

If "top 100 kills", "beta experience" and "3-4 alts" is the definition of semi-hardcore, then what's a hardcore? Seems pretty full-hardcore to me.

[Packmule]

Any guild that requires alts is simply hardcore lol

[vulfrika]

casual and hardcore dont go together especialy when you aim for hall of fame

that is just hardcore

Hardcore does not mean good. For many it means people who do the same thing over and over for extended periods of time. Not many high-end guilds does this. Infact, they aim to minimize time spent raiding and preparing. Yet they still raid more than most people, but still way less than the hardcore lot who progress for months on end 9-12 hours a week.
Thus casual hardcore.

[Bigbazz]

As soon as you start requiring an alt you're pretty cemented in hardcore culture, I know people like to add casual to the name to indicate they are doing less effort than world first, but if you're playing a video game on the schedule of a full time job (say 35-40h a week) you're nowhere near casual.

[Jazzhands]

I dont see an issue with that, my guild is a "casual hardcore" in that we only raid 9 hours/week, but we still require everyone to have at least 2 alts that are raid ready, and our goal is Hall of Fame.

Its a guide mostly meant for those looking at digging around the hall of fame level of raiding.

Shooting for Hall of Fame is hardly casual. I see where you're coming from with casual hours, but setting the goal of being in the top 100 out of thousands really kind of out-weighs that imo.

Unless you're Alliance, then it's almost guaranteed, which is both funny and sad.

[Denso]

Can't wait to spend all that time pumping in the Womb!

Jokes aside, thanks for linking. Albeit funny it's a useful guide.

[exochaft]

If "top 100 kills", "beta experience" and "3-4 alts" is the definition of semi-hardcore, then what's a hardcore? Seems pretty full-hardcore to me.

Hardcore is way more time commitment and much stricter guidelines, as just having 3-4 alts and beta experience is super easy and doesn't take much time, especially with the downtime between the launch of expansions and mythic raiding. If anything, the guild members don't even think of these as requirements, because they were going to level/maintain a bunch of raid-ready alts and prep for raid just because it's fun. As hardcore, you will do anything to win... and while many people think they have the same mentality as hardcore guilds when it comes to doing anything to win, most people usually don't and compromise way more than a hardcore guild would (and that's fine).

I used to heroic 25man (prior to mythic being a thing) and mythic raid top 30-50 US, and I still considered us semi-hardcore because we were giving quite a bit of leniency in how we spent our time and what we needed to have done prior to raid progression. While most people were expected to have 3-4 alts in my old guild, I only had one extra alt because my guild recognized that I could play anything and make it work, even if the world first people didn't consider it meta. Everyone in guild almost always got beta, and while I always focused on strat refinement for encounters, I always enjoyed the min/maxing aspect of prep prior to raid, such as power leveling chars/professions and optimizing things to do prior to progression even starting. What's more, we only raided 9 hrs/week, maybe a little more the first couple weeks if we were still filling out gear in heroic or were a couple pulls from killing a progression boss. While we knew what the meta was shaping up to be, we almost never followed it as we understood that people playing what they're comfortable with and enjoy almost always trumps making a player play a class they're not that great at. There were some exceptions, but they were usually the weaker links in the raid team.

Right now, I consider myself a casual mythic raider, but I still full clear mythic... just at a slower pace and way more relaxed rules in place. I don't put nearly as many hours into the game as I once did, partially because it's getting harder to find people that are willing to raid at the level I used to, partially because I'm getting old and my hands hurt if I play too much.

I suppose the overarching difference that I'm trying to illustrate is that the difference between hardcore, semi-hardcore, and casual isn't about how skilled a group is and what activities they engage in. Rather, the difference is how much time you spend on prep/progression and how much you'll sacrifice/compromise in order to win. The more time you spend and the less you compromise to win, the more hardcore your group is going to be.

[ONCHEhap]

By the standards people have in this thread my own guild was a full casual Cutting Edge guild for only 2 raids per week on weekend and only having one character. We killed Mythic N'zoth somewhere in May.

if you're not top 5 you're just a casual friends & family guild smh my head

[TJ]

As soon as you start requiring an alt you're pretty cemented in hardcore culture, I know people like to add casual to the name to indicate they are doing less effort than world first, but if you're playing a video game on the schedule of a full time job (say 35-40h a week) you're nowhere near casual.

I agree, I always seen a required alt as the next level of hardcore. I considered my guild which was a top 150, 4 day a week guild hardcore. Alts were seen in the 5-7 day top 100 ones.

[Revamp Man]

Hardcore does not mean good. For many it means people who do the same thing over and over for extended periods of time. Not many high-end guilds does this. Infact, they aim to minimize time spent raiding and preparing. Yet they still raid more than most people, but still way less than the hardcore lot who progress for months on end 9-12 hours a week.
Thus casual hardcore.

so waht you are saying is after the world race method goes full casual lfr social guild levels??

[huth]

Hardcore does not mean good. For many it means people who do the same thing over and over for extended periods of time. Not many high-end guilds does this. Infact, they aim to minimize time spent raiding and preparing. Yet they still raid more than most people, but still way less than the hardcore lot who progress for months on end 9-12 hours a week.
Thus casual hardcore.

And casual doesn't mean bad. Hardcore and casual are mutually exclusive, unless it's a joke like miniature giant space hamster.

[Gaidax]

Well some stuff there is generally useful even for casuals just for the sake of QoL

For example, gunshoes are definitely something that makes Maw much nicer for what it's worth and I'm surprised these actually are not nerfed/capped. Same goes for gliders, especially in Bastion/Revendreth. These things are not just some silly tiny optimizations, it's outright a big QoL in SL anyone would want if they know about it.

And you better stock on these now before they cost 30x what they are worth normally.


Then there are things that just make sense, like Draught of Ten Lands, which is basically a free 10% XP boost until level 51 - why not, costs nothing.

Then +8% movement speed from 100 gold gems, Bear Tartafe... these all are very nice especially given they are almost free anyway. If you think how much you will be legging around during leveling, that can certainly save half an hour to an hour of your life give or take 50-60.

But really from my beta experience - Gliders (and Gunshoes, which I did not use but can surely see their worth) are nigh mandatory, unless you like to suffer.

[Eurhetemec]

I suppose the overarching difference that I'm trying to illustrate is that the difference between hardcore, semi-hardcore, and casual isn't about how skilled a group is and what activities they engage in. Rather, the difference is how much time you spend on prep/progression and how much you'll sacrifice/compromise in order to win. The more time you spend and the less you compromise to win, the more hardcore your group is going to be.

But what you're actually illustrating is that the terms hardcore and casual and "semi-hardcore" are absolutely 100% subjective, and used by different people to indicate completely different things, whether it's level of commitment mentally, time-wise, in terms of approach to the game. For example, you're talking about both time commitment, and also a type of behaviour which means stuff like fun, surprise, choice of characters and so on, which is conflating two things which a lot of other people do not, when they talk about hardcore. I'm not saying your definition is wrong, but it's certainly subjective. I'd conflate the same things, but the idea that someone who is practicing everything they can on beta, and maintaining 3-4 (LOL!!!!) alts at levels of gear where they could at least enter a raid, isn't "hardcore" is laughable to me.

[kranur]

Casual Hardcore? How does that even work?

By their definitions they can't be mixed .. you either go out of your way for raids or don't.

[Toybox]

casual and hardcore dont go together especialy when you aim for hall of fame

that is just hardcore

Depends on who you play with. Good players going casually can achieve things casuals playing hardcore can't. The people in 2/3 days guilds that cleared Nyalotha in the top 500 probably spent less time raiding over the tier than the guys who queue 30 minutes for an LFR wing & 3 hours trying to down LFR Carapace & Nzoth every reset

[razorpax]

Depends on who you play with. Good players going casually can achieve things casuals playing hardcore can't. The people in 2/3 days guilds that cleared Nyalotha in the top 500 probably spent less time raiding over the tier than the guys who queue 30 minutes for an LFR wing & 3 hours trying to down LFR Carapace & Nzoth every reset

Pretty sure putting in effort for 4 toons is a bit less casual

Also doing split runs

Also doing m+

You put in more effort than little Timmy spending 3 hours in lfr

Casual hardcore doesn’t exist