The Next Decade Could Be Even Worse

[wunksta]

I'll cite it again:

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/12/211770...-covid-19-plan




Once Again, Joe Biden, from an article published March 12, talking about how he plans to lead with science and listen to experts....almost two weeks before your Lt. Gov. started talking about sacrificing Grandma.

Hell, Elizabeth Warren brought this stuff up back in January.

[Edge-]

Also, make a point, cite a source and please stop just splitting a million points from each sentence when you don't seem to have much evidence. You just stating "WE LISTEN TO SCIENCE" doesn't make that a meaningful phrase to keep reciting, nor is it itself proof.

I don't need to "prove" that I'm listening to medical advice on this because I am. Because I've been following news reports. Because I've spoken with my doctor. Because family members are following news reports, WHO, CDC etc. and have spoken with their doctors.

I actually brought and cited a piece of evidence. And this gets tiresome to just be met withe the recitation of talking points and unfortunately I'm not allowed to put you on ignore for just flooding me with talking points and anger on your part.

You cited older articles, by screenshot, as some sort of attempt to say that we aren't listening to medical guidance and information. We debunked that nonsense. Your response was to declare Greg Abbott the most influential man in the world.

Something so absolutely nonsense and ludicrous it's not worth debunking, or literally spending more time writing words about.

[szechuan]

you are going to have to actually cite some evidence of this "We listened to SCIENCE!" and not just reciting a popular piece of political talking points.

I actually brought and cited a piece of evidence. And this gets tiresome to just be met withe the recitation of talking points and unfortunately I'm not allowed to put you on ignore for just flooding me with talking points and anger on your part.

Where was your evidence that Democrats didn't listen to Science on Coronavirus?

[NineSpine]

Where was your evidence that Democrats didn't listen to Science on Coronavirus?

He had a screenshot of a Bill DeBlasio tweet from March 2nd.

[Theodarzna]

Which Republicans were saying this? Most didn't think it was a serious problem. The reason largely ties into the main OP:


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...avirus/608395/

The shifting tides, It was however the really hyper online right calling for lockdowns at the outset.

Lets check the tape:

Here, in January you have NPR discussing Trump creating a travel ban with China., heck here is the pretty right wing Brietbart praising the travel restrictions, supporting it mainly because Democrats opposed it at the time, in January.

Thus the articles I cited after. Peoples position on the COVID 19 Pandemic have been since the outset entirely dependent on what their Partisan enemies are doing and standing in opposition to it. Nothing about this response has been "SCIENCE" but instead people largely going with what they think is advantageous for them.

The GOP being Anti-Lock down is mainly because their social base in the business community was getting wiped out by there being no business. The Liberals positions on lockdowns basically varied depending on what someone wanted to do. If you wanted to go to Church or protest the Lockdown you were a super spreader, if you wanted to protest the police? That rendered you immune to the virus ofcourse. Its all nonsense.

[Machismo]

The shifting tides, It was however the really hyper online right calling for lockdowns at the outset.

Lets check the tape:

Here, in January you have NPR discussing Trump creating a travel ban with China., heck here is the pretty right wing Brietbart praising the travel restrictions, supporting it mainly because Democrats opposed it at the time, in January.

Thus the articles I cited after. Peoples position on the COVID 19 Pandemic have been since the outset entirely dependent on what their Partisan enemies are doing and standing in opposition to it. Nothing about this response has been "SCIENCE" but instead people largely going with what they think is advantageous for them.

The GOP being Anti-Lock down is mainly because their social base in the business community was getting wiped out by there being no business. The Liberals positions on lockdowns basically varied depending on what someone wanted to do. If you wanted to go to Church or protest the Lockdown you were a super spreader, if you wanted to protest the police? That rendered you immune to the virus ofcourse. Its all nonsense.

That's because they are national socialists, and hate minorities. They'd do anything to keep out foreigners... including ethnic cleansing.

You support that.

[NineSpine]

The shifting tides, It was however the really hyper online right calling for lockdowns at the outset.

Lets check the tape:

Here, in January you have NPR discussing Trump creating a travel ban with China., heck here is the pretty right wing Brietbart praising the travel restrictions, supporting it mainly because Democrats opposed it at the time, in January.

Thus the articles I cited after. Peoples position on the COVID 19 Pandemic have been since the outset entirely dependent on what their Partisan enemies are doing and standing in opposition to it. Nothing about this response has been "SCIENCE" but instead people largely going with what they think is advantageous for them.

The GOP being Anti-Lock down is mainly because their social base in the business community was getting wiped out by there being no business. The Liberals positions on lockdowns basically varied depending on what someone wanted to do. If you wanted to go to Church or protest the Lockdown you were a super spreader, if you wanted to protest the police? That rendered you immune to the virus ofcourse. Its all nonsense.

Democrats did not oppose the travel restrictions

[szechuan]

Thus the articles I cited after. Peoples position on the COVID 19 Pandemic have been since the outset entirely dependent on what their Partisan enemies are doing and standing in opposition to it. Nothing about this response has been "SCIENCE" but instead people largely going with what they think is advantageous for them.

Stop Lying, It wasn't Partisan until Trump made it Partisan.

Here, in January you have NPR discussing Trump creating a travel ban with China., heck here is the pretty right wing Brietbart praising the travel restrictions, supporting it mainly because Democrats opposed it at the time, in January.

You find it surprising that breitbart is praising racist travel restrictions?

[Theodarzna]

1. The science on masks has evolved: https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2...earch-evidence

2. Initial resistance to mask mandates was largely based on the idea that creating a public run on masks, and therefore creating a shortage for medical professionals, was not a great idea in the early stages of the pandemic. That was right. It would have been a mistake to encourage people to buy up masks in February.

3. You haven't backed up your actual statements. You said people on the left opposed lockdowns, masks, and travel restrictions. You haven't backed any of that up.

4. You seem confused about the timeline here. Nobody is complaining that Trump should have shut the country down in February. The issue is that he has questioned and opposed preventative measures for not just days or weeks, but MONTHS after there was broad scientific consensus that they needed to be done while also publicly lying about the severity of the issue. This isn't about who was right on February 3rd. This is about who was right in April, and May, and June, and July, and August, and September, and October, and November. The extent to which coronavirus has been a disaster for the United States is not about whether we did shutdowns a week too late. THis is about what we did once it was clear there was a problem and steps needed to be taken. In other words, this is like saying "Liberals say I should get chemotherapy now that I have cancer, but they didn't think I needed chemotherapy BEFORE I had cancer!" It's fucking bizarre.

As the article notes and you admit, Public Health Experts flat out lied to the public, for perhaps noble reasons, and then now demand universal trust after having admitted via the whole mask fiasco that they straight up mislead the public to prevent a shortage. A noble aim, but why would you trust someone who straight up admits to lying to you?

Trump opposed any preventative measures which would have hurt the stock market, as the GOP made it their singular focus to "Protect the Line" of the Stock market ticker. Who was right or wrong though was entirely contingent on partisan valiance, not on science. Because "Believing Science" doesn't translate into a policy answer which is a political debate, not a scientific formulae.

- - - Updated - - -

Democrats did not oppose the travel restrictions

I said Liberals, I did cite "Brietbart was Pro-something because they said Democrats opposed it", hopefully this clears up the confusion but I doubt it.

[NineSpine]

As the article notes and you admit, Public Health Experts flat out lied to the public, for perhaps noble reasons, and then now demand universal trust after having admitted via the whole mask fiasco that they straight up mislead the public to prevent a shortage. A noble aim, but why would you trust someone who straight up admits to lying to you?

Trump opposed any preventative measures which would have hurt the stock market, as the GOP made it their singular focus to "Protect the Line" of the Stock market ticker. Who was right or wrong though was entirely contingent on partisan valiance, not on science. Because "Believing Science" doesn't translate into a policy answer which is a political debate, not a scientific formulae.

Because they didn't lie. There wasn't good evidence that masks were so effective as to warrant creating a run on them early on. The evidence for and availability of masks changed.

[Felya]

What changed after March? Oh! Right, Republicans went from "OMFG THIS VIRUS WILL MELT YOUR FACE, SEAL THE COUNTRY!" into "Ummmm Grandma has to die for Moloch.... I mean the ECONOMY! THE LINE MUST GO UP!"

What? Republicans never flipped from this:

Did President Trump Refer to the Coronavirus as a ‘Hoax’?
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tr...-rally-remark/

That’s from February!

Texas' lieutenant governor suggests grandparents are willing to die for US economy in March 24th. No "science" was discovered that changed peoples minds, the political valiance changed because a Texas GOPer suggested we let the Olds die for the Market.

Yeah, for Trump and GOP it was always about markets...

Your claim that "Well we learned more science!" is just your personal headcanon, kind of like the idea that Obamacare is a stepping stone to Universal Health Care being actually anything other than a fanfiction you chose to believe. You guys claim "We learned more science" but I've seen no evidence that that happened, all I've seen and had cited is a political psycho-drama. Abbot is the sole reason anything changed. If some science came out that changed peoples minds feel free to cite it, but I can cite, and just did the exact moment it switched. The Liberals about faced from "The Pandemic is not cause for concern" to "OMFG WE GOTTA LOCKDOWN AND REPUBLICANS WANT TO KILL GRANDMA FOR THE MARKET!" and since then the entire political valiance has stayed locked.

This is bullshit... Trump defunded the CDC by 19% and removed the pandemic response team. Here is a shocker... Trump was never about the people...

You've done nothing but put words in my mouth in every thread I've ever made. You've had the idea of "Counter-Elite" explained to you twice now. As I said before, you will never admit to being wrong so why are you still posting other than "I gotta have the last word".

Your counter elite is bullshit... it’s a new spin on defending oil and real estate tycoons, by attacking “the new rich”. Stop it...

[Edge-]

Here, in January you have NPR discussing Trump creating a travel ban with China., heck here is the pretty right wing Brietbart praising the travel restrictions, supporting it mainly because Democrats opposed it at the time, in January.

So because Breitbart are reactionary idiots, everyone is a reactionary idiot and you don't need to actually prove anything.

I'm still wondering when Greg Abbott became the most influential man in the world. I mean, you made the claim that when he spoke the views of tens/hundreds of millions of people and scientists shifted. I'd love to see that shift visualized somehow, maybe with charts and graphs or some kind of analysis or like, any proof other than "These two things happened in somewhat close proximity, there for A caused B!"

[NineSpine]

I said Liberals, I did cite "Brietbart was Pro-something because they said Democrats opposed it", hopefully this clears up the confusion but I doubt it.

When are you planning to show that liberals opposed travel restrictions, lockdowns, or masks?

[szechuan]

As the article notes and you admit, Public Health Experts flat out lied to the public, for perhaps noble reasons, and then now demand universal trust after having admitted via the whole mask fiasco that they straight up mislead the public to prevent a shortage. A noble aim, but why would you trust someone who straight up admits to lying to you?

Yet completely ignoring that Trump didn't Restock Medical Supplies which were necessary during a Pandemic.

Who was right or wrong though was entirely contingent on partisan valiance, not on science. Because "Believing Science" doesn't translate into a policy answer which is a political debate, not a scientific formulae.

It wasn't, it was about Science.

[Theodarzna]

I don't need to "prove" that I'm listening to medical advice on this because I am. Because I've been following news reports. Because I've spoken with my doctor. Because family members are following news reports, WHO, CDC etc. and have spoken with their doctors.

You cited older articles, by screenshot, as some sort of attempt to say that we aren't listening to medical guidance and information. We debunked that nonsense. Your response was to declare Greg Abbott the most influential man in the world.

Something so absolutely nonsense and ludicrous it's not worth debunking, or literally spending more time writing words about.

As I've said elsewhere with you when we disagree, you are making this clearly personal, and thus not a political discussion. I cited the historical timeline and referenced back to what was said at a specific time. Because that is relevant. You debunked nothing except to recite your preferred talking point. Like saying "BUT WE LOVE AMERICA" in response to a question. That isn't really a debunking, unless reciting party talking points over and over again counts for discussion. Which on this forum I wouldn't be shocked by that.

I cited what changed, Greg Abbott said "We gotta kill the elderly for the economy", and then after March the partisan valiance became "GOP = Virus is fake news" and "Liberal = We gotta lock down".

- - - Updated - - -

So because Breitbart are reactionary idiots, everyone is a reactionary idiot and you don't need to actually prove anything.

I'm still wondering when Greg Abbott became the most influential man in the world. I mean, you made the claim that when he spoke the views of tens/hundreds of millions of people and scientists shifted. I'd love to see that shift visualized somehow, maybe with charts and graphs or some kind of analysis or like, any proof other than "These two things happened in somewhat close proximity, there for A caused B!"

Well yes, kind of like I can post any topic and you people will oppose whatever you think its about simple to assert partisan allegiance.

You still haven't managed to cite much of anything but I do admire your dedication to recitation of talking points.

[Egomaniac]

@Theodarzna At best the arguments you are making can be boiled down to:

"Democrats are only Pro-Science because Republicans are Anti-Science"

It still puts the Republicans firmly in the Anti-Science camp...and they are the ones keeping themselves there.

[Theodarzna]

When are you planning to show that liberals opposed travel restrictions, lockdowns, or masks?

Already did.

[Machismo]

Trumpsters arguing that Trumpsters have totally been taking this more seriously than Democrats.

I'm trying to decide it it's pathetic, or vile that they choose to lie so damn much.

[NineSpine]

Already did.

No, you didn't. You didn't even come close. You got one tweet from DeBlasio on MArch 2nd, and he isn't opposing any of those things in the tweet.

[szechuan]

Already did.

Stop lying, you didn't.