The Next Decade Could Be Even Worse

[Felya]

Valiant... they added a tense when one isn’t needed.

[szechuan]

I do love that the topic of Turchin has vanished here. I guess we are ready to move on from the counter-elite vs. elite confusion that some of you had since Pandemic response is a big hot topic.

In the interest of being on topic, Here is a Corona Virus mega thread, feel free to mention me to continue this fascination conversation there.

This is on topic, you're the one who made BS claims that Democrats are not Pro-Science and/or only listened to Science because of Politics.

Again, who was telling you lockdowns don't work?

[NineSpine]

I do love that the topic of Turchin has vanished here. I guess we are ready to move on from the counter-elite vs. elite confusion that some of you had since Pandemic response is a big hot topic.

In the interest of being on topic, Here is a Corona Virus mega thread, feel free to mention me to continue this fascination conversation there.

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Aight, then I spoke terribly. I should have said "Patrickism" or something, Apologies and my bad.

Can you cite when the left opposed lockdowns, masks, and travel restrictions?

[Felya]

I do love that the topic of Turchin has vanished here. I guess we are ready to move on from the counter-elite vs. elite confusion that some of you had since Pandemic response is a big hot topic.

The only way things are going to get worse, is if people who post shit like this:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-in-California

Continue to get the same air time, as legitimate medical professionals or scientist of every kind. Something that simply isn’t possible in the social media age, where professionals will always be outnumbered by the loud.

[Egomaniac]

Also, I am curious why we've dropped the Mitt Romney discussion?

What more is there for me to say? He was on record as being anti-Trump long before that Dinner you posted. I showed you the transcript and everything. You claimed that it was the rejection that made him "Anti-Trump". I corrected you. End of Discussion.

Now my Turn:

Why do you keep ignoring that Joe Biden was talking about listening to experts before that Lt. Gov was talking about Sacrificing Grandma. If that was the turning point where Liberals started backing science...why was Joe Biden already talking about it two weeks earlier?

[Felya]

This is on topic, you're the one who made BS claims that Democrats are not Pro-Science and/or only listened to Science because of Politics.

Again, who was telling you lockdowns don't work?

This isn’t even the virus... Virus is just a progression of ignorance being a legitimate side to discourse. How many lives could have been saved, if US didn’t politicize stem cell research? How about climate change? Reusable energy? Progress.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

You people realize there's a Covid-19 Megathread?

It would be nice of you to keep your fixation there.

BTW, here on the other side of the Atlantic, having competent and consensual leadership didn't change the fact that the 1st wave was a relative mess, with masks and tests shortages (sent to China) prompting "reasonable" but absolutely antipedagogical policies, and now with the second wave, the Canton right next to where I live announced they lost 1/1000th of their population from Covid (and we have global health insurance coverage and a dense network of hospitals that so far only glanced saturation, unlike some of our less fortunate neighbors).

Given that polls, studies and estimates reveal that even in old Europe the anti-mask/vaccine/tracing crowd represents at least 1/3 of the population, it will be interesting to see who will try to ride on it.

So far I am indeed quite pessimistic for the times ahead...

[Felya]

What more is there for me to say? He was on record as being anti-Trump long before that Dinner you posted. I showed you the transcript and everything. You claimed that it was the rejection that made him "Anti-Trump". I corrected you. End of Discussion.

They had a fight in 2012 over fucking tax returns... this shit is silly...

[Mihalik]

The shifting tides, It was however the really hyper online right calling for lockdowns at the outset.

Lets check the tape:

Here, in January you have NPR discussing Trump creating a travel ban with China., heck here is the pretty right wing Brietbart praising the travel restrictions, supporting it mainly because Democrats opposed it at the time, in January.

Thus the articles I cited after. Peoples position on the COVID 19 Pandemic have been since the outset entirely dependent on what their Partisan enemies are doing and standing in opposition to it. Nothing about this response has been "SCIENCE" but instead people largely going with what they think is advantageous for them.

The GOP being Anti-Lock down is mainly because their social base in the business community was getting wiped out by there being no business. The Liberals positions on lockdowns basically varied depending on what someone wanted to do. If you wanted to go to Church or protest the Lockdown you were a super spreader, if you wanted to protest the police? That rendered you immune to the virus ofcourse. Its all nonsense.

You really went off on the deep end here and hard core Qanon red pilled yourself. Ya just went from Tucker Carlson to Alex Jones. Yes, the liberals are making the frogs gay.

1. The issue with the Trump travel bans was that the travel bans were selective, politically motivated, completely disconnected from scientific advice and accompanied by blaring racist rhetoric, rhetoric that the administration continues perpetrating.

2. The Republican rejection of scientific advice has precious fucking little to do with the interest of the business community when the repeated failure to take action to address the problem has simply made it last longer and cut deeper, ultimately making the financial impact worse.

Science denial is a storied Republican/Conservative tradition, that takes many diverse incarnations that touch upon everything from climate change, science education, rejection of social sciences, fear mongering about medical science, homosexuality etc. The list is nearly fucking endless.

3. Not all social interactions are created equal. Being in an in closed space with hundreds of not thousands of other people, who out of principle reject even basic social distancing, hygienic and mask rules, or even being at an open air rally with those people isn't the same as being at open air protests with people who do observe mask rules.

There is EVIDENCE for Church gatherings and Trump rallies being super spreader events, there's still no evidence for the protests being that. Are you going to accuse math of a liberal bias now?

WTF.

[Egomaniac]

I do love that the topic of Turchin has vanished here. I guess we are ready to move on from the counter-elite vs. elite confusion that some of you had since Pandemic response is a big hot topic.

In the interest of being on topic, Here is a Corona Virus mega thread, feel free to mention me to continue this fascination conversation there.

And i do love how you try to use staying on topic to deflect from the argument you are badly losing just after you specifically called me out for not continuing another off-topic discussion that I guess you must have thought you were winning.

Here it is...just for reference

Also, I am curious why we've dropped the Mitt Romney discussion?

[Draco-Onis]

You've done nothing but put words in my mouth in every thread I've ever made. You've had the idea of "Counter-Elite" explained to you twice now. As I said before, you will never admit to being wrong so why are you still posting other than "I gotta have the last word".

You changed the definition of the word to suit your needs but when it's used in another context you throw a hissy fit instead of addressing the flaw in your logic. In your mind it seems elite just means people that know what they are doing not the actual meaning of the word.

[Howel]

First, there are no moderates. "Moderates/Centrism" is a mystification of their actual existing and fairly rigid ideological position and ascribing it the position of "moderate" assumes this ideological position which is ideological, is somehow a non-ideological consensus that sits between "extreme" positions. When the positions of "Moderates" is itself an ideological extreme it just merely occupies the centers of power and the hearts and minds of powerful people.

Second, false promises are given by all. "Hope and Change" was a false promise given what was actually done.

If you tax people either 0 % or 100 %, the center or moderate between those two will be to tax 50 %. Heck the moderate/center between bad and good, would be exactly that, a lesser between either a moderate; one that doesn't do everything poorly or perfectly.

Nonetheless, the notion still stands. Why is it the fault of those who don't elect to be perfect, that worse exists? Because that's a logic that puts, in my mind, an unreasonable pressure on someone to enforce changes that aren't even that particular popular with the population; to avoid someone that'll do it, but in wrong directions.

Equally so, currently who is the one that those people are railing on, as if their lives depended on it? AOC. One that supposedly is the closest to what one would regard the right choices in this hypothetical situation. How exactly is that an indication that not going for moderation, will turn out any other outcome from embracing a more "extreme"; how is there any indication when that is reaction from the people who supposedly just need a different "extreme" to embrace?

True, but I did note bad people. That's sort of a crucial aspect.

[jonnysensible]

no one in the thread has read any of turchins books and nobody in this thread ever will.

[Milchshake]

no one in the thread has read any of turchins books and nobody in this thread ever will.

His books are right next to my copy of Francis' Fukuyama's The End of History. In the section I call; Guys that will be Wrong in 10 years.

Basically every historian since Herodotus, when they try to play Nostradamus.

[Zython]

He isn't actually saying such things :

Ah, so @Theodarzna was just lying about what he said. Typical.

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And i do love how you try to use staying on topic to deflect from the argument you are badly losing just after you specifically called me out for not continuing another off-topic discussion that I guess you must have thought you were winning.

Here it is...just for reference

She has a REALLY bad tendency to make conversations about herself, and get upset when she isn't the center of conversation.

[Egomaniac]

She has a REALLY bad tendency to make conversations about herself, and get upset when she isn't the center of conversation.

Yeah, it's straight out of the playbook. Just laying the ground works for her to bail from a lost argument. Much like Trump, she believes that as long as she doesn't concede...she wins.

[PC2]

His books are right next to my copy of Francis' Fukuyama's The End of History. In the section I call; Guys that will be Wrong in 10 years.

Okay so what is the next societal evolution after liberal democracy?

Basically every historian since Herodotus, when they try to play Nostradamus.

You just played Nostradamus as well by saying Fukuyama will be wrong in 10 years.

[Masark]

Okay so what is the next evolution after liberal democracy?

I would say either expanding democratic governance to the workplace (which mostly remains a bastion of hierarchical autocracy, which should have no place in a society claiming to be democratic) or attempting to abolish the workplace though radical automation.

[PC2]

I would say either expanding democratic governance to the workplace (which mostly remains a bastion of hierarchical autocracy, which should have no place in a society claiming to be democratic) or attempting to abolish the workplace though radical automation.

That's what you personally want but as far as Milch's prediction I would say there's no significant evidence that suggests any change like that is happening nor is it on the horizon.

[Milchshake]

Okay so what is the next evolution after liberal democracy?

Luxury Space Communism, with mandatory dresses for men.




Future PM that will restore the UK.