The intent of Sylvanas revealed today?

[Cherry123]

she wants to create a limbo in which everyone will be happy

[Die]

That's what they want you to think. Remember, Danuser is a huge fan of Ryan Johnson's whole "subverting expectations (by entirely throwing the current plot under a bus to do something stupid)" style of writing,

Ryan Johnson subverted your expectation of the spelling of his first name. It is Rian not Ryan.

[Stardrift]

Ryan Johnson subverted your expectation of the spelling of his first name. It is Rian not Ryan.

I knew it. I knew I misspelled his name.

Touche

[Powerogue]

she wants to create a limbo in which everyone will be happy

She literally killed her own forsaken for wanting to be happy and have hope independent of herself.

Of her potential motives, that is not one of them.

[Arrashi]

She literally killed her own forsaken for wanting to be happy and have hope independent of herself.

Of her potential motives, that is not one of them.

To be fair she just spared them from anduinisation.

[Super Dickmann]

To be fair she just spared them from anduinisation.

It'd be a pretty catchy tagline - 'Better dead than nu-undead."

[Grazrug]

She will set us all free. I have nothing but trust in her proving all the alliance fanatics wrong.

[loras]

She will set us all free. I have nothing but trust in her proving all the alliance fanatics wrong.

Did you miss the part where she revealed the Horde is nothing to her?
There is nothing Alliancey or Hordey about disliking Sylvanas anymore.

And personally i liked her as an Alliance player, but before she's turned generic evil

[Ersula]

It'd be a pretty catchy tagline - 'Better dead than nu-undead."

Honestly I do see them pulling "Well, I killed all those people because I'm trying to save their immortal soul, I need to seem like I'm helping the jailer until I can make my move, and they cannot be allowed to give their souls to a Naaru because that's also a form of imprisonment" in fact this seems the most likely, because above all they want a situation where the people who hate sylvanas can still hate her & the people who like her can still like her. Which this accomplishes.

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That's what they want you to think. Remember, Danuser is a huge fan of Ryan Johnson's whole "subverting expectations (by entirely throwing the current plot under a bus to do something stupid)" style of writing

Implying JJ Abrams is a better writer than Rian Johnson is a crime that cannot be forgiven. You not liking Sylvanas & not getting to kill her is not itself bad writing

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How is it so hard for them to just not make the Jailer this generic mwahahah guy? They nailed Denathrius, but they can't do it with the MAIN villain?
Atleast have him not speak, or speak in simple sentences.

The idea he is the *real* Lich King. So just carry that characterization over to him. They seem jizzed up for an Arthas redemption, which I hate, but at least that also means Sylvanas & Nerzhul are also not responsible for the Jailer's atrocities

[Stardrift]

Honestly I do see them pulling "Well, I killed all those people because I'm trying to save their immortal soul, I need to seem like I'm helping the jailer until I can make my move, and they cannot be allowed to give their souls to a Naaru because that's also a form of imprisonment" in fact this seems the most likely, because above all they want a situation where the people who hate sylvanas can still hate her & the people who like her can still like her. Which this accomplishes.

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Implying JJ Abrams is a better writer than Rian Johnson is a crime that cannot be forgiven. You not liking Sylvanas & not getting to kill her is not itself bad writing

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The idea he is the *real* Lich King. So just carry that characterization over to him. They seem jizzed up for an Arthas redemption, which I hate, but at least that also means Sylvanas & Nerzhul are also not responsible for the Jailer's atrocities

I never mentioned anything about killing Sylvanas. What an odd assumption.

Bad writing is building up people's expectations for something (and in this case, multiple different expectations) and then limp dicking the reveal or climax of the story. As we've seen with 8.2 and 8.3.

I was alluding to the absolute disrespect Danuser committed to a decade+ old storyline in an attempt to replicate Rian Johnson's writing style. Seeing as how recent Marvel and Starwars movies are a huge inspiration, and sometimes downright copied by his work.

Rian's a great director and writer. But the dude butchered an already cliched story and made it even worse by trying to apply his style in such a careless, ignorant way. Dude simply had no passion for the project. Only for himself. A wonderful parallel to Danuser, as you can tell by his Twitter bio "I make the wow stories you like -- someone else writes those other ones".

[Engal]

That's retconning the means she would use to attain her goal, not her goal herself.

She was already trying to find a way for her and her "people" to escape their damnation since Vanilla

Her motives never changed. The way to accomplish it did. (- retconned or not - ) So my point is the was never shady about it.

She was shady about how she would do it.

[Wazooty]

So uh...am I wrong in thinking that the force behind the lich king is the jailer? So when Arthas went on his warpath and killed/raised sylvanas, it was the jailers doing, essentially?

[Varodoc]

So uh...am I wrong in thinking that the force behind the lich king is the jailer? So when Arthas went on his warpath and killed/raised sylvanas, it was the jailers doing, essentially?

Yes, as it's mentioned in the Collector's Edition for Shadowlands that the Jailer was a strong presence in the Helm of Domination.

You believe that you are in control. That your will is your own.
Yet you do as He commands.
You exist by His whim alone.
You imagine yourself to be free, but you will always be His instrument.

These are whispers from the echo of Arthas kept within the Blades of the Fallen Prince. The meaning is obvious.

In Chronicles III, Arthas believed himself to be in control, to be the sole master of the Lich King. Yet he was oblivious to the real master of the Helm of Domination. That's why at the end he says "Father, is it over?" -> He finally understands that he was enthralled by the Jailer all along.

The first whisper is particularly relevant, because Arthas literally thought he was in control of the Helm after erasing Ner'zhul. But he was oblivious to the fact that he was always a mere pawn of the Jailer, as the following whispers state.

These whispers can be applied to Ner'zhul as well. Don't you think it's suspicious that Ner'zhul had no problem sending Arthas and Kel'thuzad to butcher the remaining Blackrock orcs in Alterac Mountains? They were still his people, after all.

[Mungho]

Yes, as it's mentioned in the Collector's Edition for Shadowlands that the Jailer was a strong presence in the Helm of Domination.



These are whispers from the echo of Arthas kept within the Blades of the Fallen Prince. The meaning is obvious.

In Chronicles III, Arthas believed himself to be in control, to be the sole master of the Lich King. Yet he was oblivious to the real master of the Helm of Domination. That's why at the end he says "Father, is it over?" -> He finally understands that he was enthralled by the Jailer all along.

The first whisper is particularly relevant, because Arthas literally thought he was in control of the Helm after erasing Ner'zhul. But he was oblivious to the fact that he was always a mere pawn of the Jailer, as the following whispers state.

These whispers can be applied to Ner'zhul as well. Don't you think it's suspicious that Ner'zhul had no problem sending Arthas and Kel'thuzad to butcher the remaining Blackrock orcs in Alterac Mountains? They were still his people, after all.

But, doesn't that mean that neither Ner'zhul or Arthas were responsible for their actions? If so, then why did Arthas go to the Maw(no clue about Ner'zhul)? He shouldn't be held responsible for something someone else made him do.

[Varodoc]

But, doesn't that mean that neither Ner'zhul or Arthas were responsible for their actions? If so, then why did Arthas go to the Maw(no clue about Ner'zhul)? He shouldn't be held responsible for something someone else made him do.

I believe in the beta it is specifically mentioned that the Arbiter NEVER sends souls to the Maw. She always sends the most evil souls to Revendreth, where they can try to atone for their sins. If they refuse redemption, they are then thrown into the Maw. That's why you have literal planet eaters atoning in Revendreth. The Arbiter always offers a second chance.

Even if this were not the case (I don't have beta, but I remember reading this somewhere around here), we don't know if Arthas was destined to the Maw, because Devos and Uther hijacked his soul before it could go to the Arbiter for judgement. It wouldn't surprise me if their act weakened the machine of Death, as it's unfathomable that a soul would bypass the Arbiter's judgement. That's what happened with Arthas.

[Mungho]

Ah, okay, I was a little confused there, thanks. I wonder were Ner'zhul is though. I feel the guy got a really raw deal.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

But, doesn't that mean that neither Ner'zhul or Arthas were responsible for their actions? If so, then why did Arthas go to the Maw(no clue about Ner'zhul)? He shouldn't be held responsible for something someone else made him do.

[Mungho]

Okay, that explained a lot. I'd sworn off cinematics after having to watch Sadfang, and I despise the type of animation in these ones.

[Kyphael]

Okay, that explained a lot. I'd sworn off cinematics after having to watch Sadfang, and I despise the type of animation in these ones.

Saurfang was the only good thing about BfA! Of course I don't expect Sylvanas to understand what honor means, because honor to her just means "get on her, and stay on her!"

[Feanoro]

Saurfang was the only good thing about BfA! Of course I don't expect Sylvanas to understand what honor means, because honor to her just means "get on her, and stay on her!"

Certainly what Danuser and the fans think.