Star Wars: Fox Execs Told George Lucas Young Anakin Would 'Destroy the Franchise'

[DeltrusDisc]

Huh? The duel in Phantom Menace showed a lot of emotion. There was a lot of nonverbal storytelling going on.




The Clone Wars ending duel fight against Dooku was short but had a lot of emotion as well, was very dramatic.

I do agree that the RotS ending duel drags on for too long, with an emphasis on flash over storytelling, but the character beats there are good (beginning of the fight when Obi-Wan steps out of the ship to confront Anakin, and, ofcourse, the actual ending).

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His reviews were comedic but I didn't find any of his points valid or insightful.

NONE of his points were valid or insightful?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Some SW fans are extremely cruel to the actors. There's a reason why Hayden doesn't do SW events.

It's a shame his scene in TRoS was cut.

[Kaleredar]

Huh? The duel in Phantom Menace showed a lot of emotion. There was a lot of nonverbal storytelling going on.

Emotion? Between who?

Qui gon Jinn, a character we know nothing about, Darth Maul, a character we know especially nothing about, and a resolution that leaves Qui Gon dead that has zero appreciable effect on Obi Wan throughout the entire remainder of the film franchise.

Don't let flashy choreography and John Williams music seduce you into think that was good storytelling.

The prequels have cool moments that amount to a whole hill of nothing.

[DeltrusDisc]

Some SW fans are extremely cruel to the actors. There's a reason why Hayden doesn't do SW events.

Yeah, it's unfortunate when the fans are shitty to the actors.

It's painfully obvious this was all the fault of bad writing and directing. When even seasoned actors like Christopher Lee, Ian Mcdiarmid, and Samuel L Jackson can barely lift their characters, you know you have a problem.

Mr Plinkett made a great point about Palpatine though, he was the only real character in the whole trilogy. He actually showed emotion and was clearly having a great time being evil. He was hilarious. Other than him... nope, no characters.

[PACOX]

Okay, fair enough.

Lord knows they'll probably ruin Thrawn. :/

Thrawn was one of the best things in Rebels and might be back.

[Kaleredar]

Some SW fans are extremely cruel to the actors. There's a reason why Hayden doesn't do SW events.

Remember, you can only be a star wars fan if you like two of the original films, have a tasteful appreciation for what the prequels were going for, and hate everything else!

[Kyphael]

I mean, that's a bit misleading I think.

The problems with Phantom Menace weren't exactly confined to "young Anakin". Him being 9 years old has no bearing on Let's Talk Trade Routes, Jar Jar Pleasemakeitstop, Now This is Pod Racing (Even Though It Clearly Isn't), or Midichlorians Did Yo' Momma. And all the other egregious bullshit that movie injected into the franchise.

I'm actually with Lucas on this one: having Anakin be a kid torn away from his mother IS a vital part of the story. It shows a deep flaw in the Jedi, highlighting the cult-like decadence they suffered from during the last throes of the Republic. It sets us up for failure that wasn't entirely unavoidable, or merely situated in "Dark Side Did It" stereotypes. It would have been a very, very different thing if he'd been a teenager, where perhaps leaving your parents isn't all that surprising, rather than deeply traumatic.

Bingo. For all of Phantom Menace's flaws, it had many ideas I liked. Lucas, whether intentionally or not, painted the Jedi in their golden age as holier-than-thou, arrogant pricks who think their way is the right way and how dare you try to tell them otherwise. This was something Disney's Star wars touched on with Luke in one of the few good aspects of the film as far as continuity goes.

If Lucas just had someone do a draft and trim out all the bullshit in Phantom Menace like midichlorians, and the character of Jar Jar Binks, that movie would be very good. Even the pod racing didn't bother me and I'm sure they sold a shit ton of toys with that scene which these executives love but certainly, a nine year-old Anakin was by no means a bad idea to start the series on. I preferred it over teenaged Anakin in Episode II.

[Mirishka]

What happened to him?

From his Wikipedia page:

In 2012, Lloyd explained that his decision to retire from acting in 2001 was due to bullying at school and harassment by the press, both in response to his role in The Phantom Menace.

In March 2015, police responded to an alleged assault by Lloyd on his mother Lisa Riley. In a statement to Indianapolis Metro Police Department, Riley alleged Lloyd arrived at her house and began verbally berating her. He then progressed to physically assaulting her, but she declined to press charges, revealing that Lloyd was diagnosed with schizophrenia and was not taking his medication at the time.

On June 17, 2015, Lloyd was arrested in South Carolina under the name Jake Broadbent for reckless driving, driving without a license, and resisting arrest; he failed to stop for a red light, which initiated a high-speed police chase. At a hearing on June 22, his bail was set at $10,700. On June 23, Lloyd's mother stated to TMZ that he has schizophrenia and that "the family plans to try and get him help again [...] once he's released from jail". Lloyd was not released on bail.

In April 2016, after being held for 10 months without trial in Colleton County Detention Center, Lloyd was transferred from jail to a psychiatric facility due to his Schizophrenia diagnosis.

In January 2020, his family issued a statement saying that he has moved closer to his family, and has officially been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia.

Most of this was in the mainstream news (including mug shots) so it isn't like, a case of 'random shit someone made up on wikipedia'. Just about all of this is confirmed to have happened.

[Frogguh]

The lightsaber battles in the prequels were just choreographed nonsense, showing little to no emotion.
If they had given the Revenge of the Sith duel between Anakin and Obi Wan remotely the same treatment and feel as Luke vs Vader at the end of Jedi... holy cow it would have been so much better.
Instead it's an age-long mess showing off as much lava-scenery as possible.

Something far more meaningful would have been Anakin angrily lunging at Obi Wan, screaming at him, with Obi Wan just deflecting and backing away. Less oooo how fast can they duel and more impactful moments. This is why the prequel fights are ultimately forgettable as shit, but the original trilogy's fights hold so much more meaning and are remembered so well, because they didn't focus so much on how the fights looked and more what they were about.

Your homework: The Mr Plinkett RedLetterMedia Star Wars prequel reviews.
Start with episode 1. Get back to me when you've finished.

The story of the Luke/Vader fight might be better, but the choreography of the prequels is generally far superior to the original or sequel trilogies. Anakin/Obi-Wan in particular.

In both the other trilogies, I have seen more skill from kids swinging sticks at each other. What you see is not what you would expect from magic warriors whose skill in lightsaber battle largely involves their ability to sense what is immediately about to happen. Two warriors fighting with such power would indeed look choreographed, because they could sense what was coming.

Watch Vader fight Luke and then tell me it's believable he would have the speed and skill and precision to deflect blasterfire from a dozen soldiers in a hallway. Wouldn't happen.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Okay, fair enough.

Lord knows they'll probably ruin Thrawn. :/

I haven't looked into thrawn in rebels but people say good things about it and in his comic mini series he was pretty dope.

[DeltrusDisc]

The story of the Luke/Vader fight might be better, but the choreography of the prequels is generally far superior to the original or sequel trilogies. Anakin/Obi-Wan in particular.

In both the other trilogies, I have seen more skill from kids swinging sticks at each other. What you see is not what you would expect from magic warriors whose skill in lightsaber battle largely involves their ability to sense what is immediately about to happen. Two warriors fighting with such power would indeed look choreographed, because they could sense what was coming.

Watch Vader fight Luke and then tell me it's believable he would have the speed and skill and precision to deflect blasterfire from a dozen soldiers in a hallway. Wouldn't happen.

The choreography was great, I am not denying that.

A choreographed sword fight is just that though. Emotion goes a hell of a lot further.

[LordVargK]

I think Natalie Portman was the only up and coming actor whose acting career survived the Prequel hate. Everyone else was already pre-established (Samuel Jackson, Liam Neeson, Ian McDiarmid, Christopher Lee, etc)

Funny enough, the same can be said about the original trilogy and Harrison Ford. It's like some form of Star Wars curse.

OT: Honestly, I think the Prequels were a huge success. It took Star Wars to the next (my) generation. Would I have been disappointed If I grew up with the original trilogy? Probably. But the prequels ignited the Star Wars flame in me and many of my friends. I doubt that watching the original trilogy could have done that.
The prequels created a universe. Actual intelligent alien races, countless populated worlds, the clone wars (although personally I did not like the TV show), and really good lightsaber fights as well as fantastic space battles.
So I think Lucas made the right call in making the prequels more appealing to children (again). It benefited the franchise as a whole.
The sequels... Well I'm not a child anymore, but they turned me away from Star Wars. And I doubt that it attracted the same kind of attention from present children that the prequels did, because the sequels are nothing new. They rely heavily on old characters and without knowing those characters you won't get much out of the movies besides the special effects, I think.

But in the end we can only wait on how the sequels age.

The lightsaber battles in the prequels were just choreographed nonsense, showing little to no emotion.
If they had given the Revenge of the Sith duel between Anakin and Obi Wan remotely the same treatment and feel as Luke vs Vader at the end of Jedi... holy cow it would have been so much better.
Instead it's an age-long mess showing off as much lava-scenery as possible.

Something far more meaningful would have been Anakin angrily lunging at Obi Wan, screaming at him, with Obi Wan just deflecting and backing away. Less oooo how fast can they duel and more impactful moments. This is why the prequel fights are ultimately forgettable as shit, but the original trilogy's fights hold so much more meaning and are remembered so well, because they didn't focus so much on how the fights looked and more what they were about.

Your homework: The Mr Plinkett RedLetterMedia Star Wars prequel reviews.
Start with episode 1. Get back to me when you've finished.

Prime example on why the prequels were made for children:
Children don't care about "emotional fights" they care about flashy fights. Yes, the originals were more emotional. The prequels were more monumental. While the originals were a story about the skywalker family, the prequels told a story of a much, much grander scale. They are in essence not the same kind of film, even though the setting is similar.

And again, accessing a new age group was the right move. Empire strikes back and Return of the Jedi were both declining in success, Star Wars kind of needed something fresh.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Funny enough, the same can be said about the original trilogy and Harrison Ford. It's like some form of Star Wars curse.

Eh, I don't think it's a curse. Mark Hamil became one of the most prominent voice actors ever. He found voice acting more relaxing than onscreen acting. I'd call that a success.

Carrie Fisher did fall from grace, though.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I enjoyed the prequels a bit when I was younger, but something always felt off about them. Then I noticed when I was getting older over the next 5-10 years after episode 3 that I never really cared to watch the prequels, I only wanted to watch 4, 5, and 6. I could never quite place why, I just knew my interest in the older movies was far greater.

Then the Mr Plinkett reviews came out and I finally understood why: because the prequels were just bad and my brain didn't want to waste time watching something that was bad.

Incredible.

Yeah no, don't care what that dude says, I can tell when a movie is bad and if it loses my interest well there ya go. I think they are underrated films. Don't get me started on Empire's strike back somehow being the best.

[Rendark]

Yeah no, don't care what that dude says, I can tell when a movie is bad and if it loses my interest well there ya go. I think they are underrated films. Don't get me started on Empire's strike back somehow being the best.

But it is the best.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The choreography was great, I am not denying that.

A choreographed sword fight is just that though. Emotion goes a hell of a lot further.

a sword fight being slow doesn't mean its somehow more emotion. I mean I could dig into that fight if I really wanted to but I don't think overanalyzing a film thats really space opera(Not an insult) is really helpful. The only criticism I understand is Lucas having yes men all around him, thats legit but I still understand wanting to keep his vision of what he's making, especially if dumb idiots at the top think they know better.

But it is the best.

No, I've watched it several times and it never stood out as the best.

[Shadowferal]

Remember, you can only be a star wars fan if you like two of the original films, have a tasteful appreciation for what the prequels were going for, and hate everything else!

Yeah well, Luke's training sequence is damn difficult to watch today and not make comparisons to every other scene in every movie. Much of what Yoda says is almost poetic...(and Luke seeing himself under the Vader mask hits home in a way that we never see in any of the movies afterwards. And yet aren't we still waiting for more of that?)

[Rendark]

No, I've watched it several times and it never stood out as the best.

Then in my opinion, you have poor taste in movies.

[Chapel]

Yes, the ruination of Star Wars actually came from a generic, unemotional nothing of a character that they based the last 3 movies around.

Rey 'Mary Sue' Palpatine, was an uninspiring, lazy character that had no character arch, no heroes journey, and had no personality that anyone could feel a connection to.

Nobody:

Kennedy: 'Here is your new role model little girls, a character that has all the powers of a big bad and is unlike-able.'

This comes from an interview from 1999.





The juicy:





Only somewhat relevant now as the reception to the sequel trilogy has been very divided with the majority of people thinking that it was Disney that ruined the franchise.


But some people see a silver lining. One of the comments under the article pointed this out:





'The Phantom Menace' wasn't that bad... right?

[munkeyinorbit]

It comes down to when you were born. For the original fans I feel that they hated the prequels but grew up and viewed the sequels as what they are. Pop corn movies not to be taken too seriously.

People who grew up with the prequels like them, don't like the originals as much as the original fans did and hate the sequels. Effectively they replaced the original fans as the loud man babies.

Kids who saw the sequels first are still kids but they love them. They love it all.

In the end you have to remember that these are effectively kids movies. Some movies are definetly bad, some are better, but it's just entertainment. You shouldn't get too hung up on what you think ruined a franchise because the franchise is fine.

Except for the prequels. They were terrible.