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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Lol..... I see, well It's hard to sympathize with a group who commits Genocide with startling regularity, has never even owned up to it, and seems apt to keep going. Not really able to sympathize with that. I'll wait for something more substantive than random Australian site.
    You don't even have to go back to 1915, they committed ethnic cleansing in 1974 when they illegally invaded Cyprus. Turkish conscripts raped and murdered Greeks with impunity while Henry Kissinger block any and all response from the Greek military. To this day I can't help but laugh when Turks champion the right of return for Palestinians while denying it to tens of thousands of surviving Greeks from Cyprus.

  2. #402
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos View Post
    You don't even have to go back to 1915, they committed ethnic cleansing in 1974 when they illegally invaded Cyprus. Turkish conscripts raped and murdered Greeks with impunity while Henry Kissinger block any and all response from the Greek military. To this day I can't help but laugh when Turks champion the right of return for Palestinians while denying it to tens of thousands of surviving Greeks from Cyprus.
    Cyprus right, see its hard for me to even keep track of all of this stuff. None of it acknowledged, owned up to, and in secret its all celebrated in Turkey as an achievement.

    Hard to have sympathy here for them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos View Post
    You don't even have to go back to 1915, they committed ethnic cleansing in 1974 when they illegally invaded Cyprus. Turkish conscripts raped and murdered Greeks with impunity while Henry Kissinger block any and all response from the Greek military. To this day I can't help but laugh when Turks champion the right of return for Palestinians while denying it to tens of thousands of surviving Greeks from Cyprus.
    You have conveniently ignored all the massacres and ethnic cleansing before the intervention.

  4. #404
    The dust has settled, let's sum this bullshit up. Allow me to play armchair general and spam the text wall.

    Real winner, the true winner - definitely the president of Azerbaijan, Ilham Aliyev, not necessarily the country itself. Nepotism, failing oil-based economy, corruption, stealing, human right abuses, none of that shit matters now . He is now the national hero, the returner of Karabakh and the 7 regions. Re-election is guaranteed and you can bet that the son will be groomed for the next president (just like he took over from the papa) unless he does something incredibly stupid.
    The timing was perfect - world was dealing with Covid pandemic, Russia dealing with Belarus protests and the Navalny poisoning fallouts, USA's election looming, etc.
    So, as the Russian saying goes, he went to "small victorious war" with "little blood" and instead of the usual meme about it he succeeded.

    The peace treaty de facto means ethnic cleansing. Yes, I said it. Only difference is that the cleansing will happen via the way of almost forced population relocation instead of killings (Russian peacekeepers usually are quite quick to stop such things). Armenians are not coming back to live under Azeris, they will stay in Armenia. It simply will not happen, not now, not ever.. They have no choice but to leave. The connection to the Armenia is basically in Azeri hands. The new road? It will come after years, but is needed right now. Especially since after 5 years Azerbaijan can say that peacekeepers are not needed anymore and just move in fully anyway. What is left of Artsakh cannot be military defended anymore, no matter how Armenians rebuild their forces. Economy is gone, new generation will run away right away. There is nothing left.
    The territory where they have lived for more than millenia, way before any Turkic people appeared there, is now not theirs anymore and is unlikely to ever be again. No, Mr. Ilham "We have lot of Russian schools" Aliyev, your story about only 200 years of Armenians in Caucasus is the most blatant nationalistic lie I have recently heard.
    Some will remain, of course, old people, the few fanatics and hardheads. I fully expect news about murders without real punishment from time to time. We have all seen it before, even if some chose to ignore them.
    This is why the "international law" has issues and is not perfect. It does not take the realities of real life in account. As I have said, just because some Soviet "geniuses" decided to give territory inhabited by primarily Armenians to Azerbaijan back in 1920s does not mean those borders are reasonable and parroting about the "THE LAWWWWW" is nonsensical. There are other such dumb exclaves as well...

    For now, conflict de facto still remains and is not resolved. Arstakh as a country, however, is basically gone, just a matter of time.

    I have no idea what exactly happened in the goverment of Nikol Pashinyan. The treaty like this do not happen in days, but weeks. It had to be in the work long before Shusha fell and war became obviously lost, before Lachin pass became threatened, possibly weeks before, which just makes it all even more damning.
    Lying to the nation, not commiting forces fully to the war, fake mobilizations, etc. Why? Heh, maybe truly Aliyev made a deal long time ago directly with Yerevan. Baku wins the land, Mr. Nikol can say that they fought but sadly lost, now is time to rebuild and look to the West.

    Armenian official losses are now "more than 1380" soldiers. Numbers will now definitely increase, as bodies are exchanged.
    Azerbaijani ones? Manpower wise have to be similar. Breaking through the south was costly and Armenian artillery reaped bloodly tool. Pretty sure Baku will not keep to the promise of "after the war". Like in 2016, I expect people to be imprisoned for attempting public inquiries.
    Most of the dead are probably younger than the average age of the users of this forum. ~20-21, both sides. Think about it. Think hard and think again before screaming about "righting historical wrongs". Well, Kuntantee won't think xD

    And finally, I saw the return of this idiotic chanting

    Rus, fars, erməni – bunlar türkün düşməni.
    in multiple countries (Russians, Persians, Armenians - enemies of Turks), the attempts to celebrate in Russia as if they were back in home and similar insanity of the nationalistic/ethnic kind...

    Politics:
    Armenia - will likely have the Prime Minister fall and bunch of others too. Something fucky was definitely going on, way before the military situation became bad for Armenians. It is clear that there are/were opposing groups in Yerevan plus conflict with Arstakh. The Russian tinfoil theory from the start of the war about Pashinyan deliberately holding back support/allowing war to be lost seemed so dumb then. Right now, it actually seems to be quite realistic. Internal strife and soulsearching/guiltysearching is coming, also issues in economy. I have no idea where they will get money to replace the lost hardware and modernize.

    Azerbaijan - the bill for war is coming, but will likely just drown in the euphoria and censure. They are stronger player in the region now.

    Russia - both lost and won. Loss - Turkey's influence is spreading in Caucasus, the traditional Russian playground, Moscow does not want that. Win - Armenia is back in the fold. Russian interwerbs often go full retard screaming about Soros, Maidans and pro-western goverment (Armenia since 2018). Well, now they can chill, Russian peacekeepers will stave off the total loss of Arstakh, for now, forcing Armenia to heel to Moscow again.

    Turkey - probably the second biggest looser after Armenia. They have gained little outside of potential drone sales (and shitload of bans enforced upon them now). Seems Aliyev played them too, mini sultan outplayed the bigger one.
    Peace treaty clearly mentions only Russian peacekeepers, yet Turkey keeps repeating theirs will be there too - which is constantly loudly denied by Moscow. Only some officers in the operation centre, not patrolling the borders.

    Iran - most likely not happy - Azeri nationalism will be growing ever more now, the videos from border towns were quite telling. I don't know what was the exact point of the huge (tens of thousands, if I am not mistaken, together with every kind of equipment) army deployment to the Azeri border during the second half of the war, none of the options are likely, yet there had to be a reason and it was not training.

    Military, general:

    1. Drones will be much more widespread and everyone will buy them. People will think even more that drones are OP. No, they are not (look at Syria and Lybia. "Holy Bayraktars" have littered them, just needed proper AA). They will, however, give more flexibility for smaller squad level, not exactly strike wise (big boys will primarily use actual planes and tactical missiles for the main targets).
    2. Drone strikes were important, but not the main reason for drone success, it was reconnaissance done by them and the targetting provided. Keep flying for 8 hours by changing operators until you find the target, always see what the enemy is doing, where it is going. Planes cannot do that and are more expensive to loiter.
    3. Anti-air defense needs to be done by the book - cover all levels. This is were Armenia failed. Sure, OSA's were old and crap, but they worked to their specified altitude. Problem was, Bayraktars flew higher and Tors were not used almost until the end, leading to free reign.
    4. Converting old crap like An-2 biplanes to remotely piloted drones to find the AA positions was a stroke of genius. You cannot ignore them - they carried 250kg aviation bomb within them. Shoot them down and reveal yourself, or don't and let them blow something important up.
    6. Passive and static defense against overwhelming enemy does not work, military 101. Tanks should be moving as much as possible, not sit in dug out positions.
    7. Naked tanks are anachronism. T-72, T-72A, all those early models without reactive armour are nothing more than mobile artillery platforms on modern battlefield. Even Azeris had white elephant syndrome and sent those into battle instead of using more of the T-90's and upgraded T-72B's.
    8. Tanks themselves, contary to drone fapper ideas, are not obsolete. The video where Azeri tank group successfully rushed Armenian ATGM position (and Armenian ATGM teams were quite good) was good example. Expect changes though, like more all around protection and some kind of drone defense, most likely automatic smoke on incoming suicide drone detection.
    9. Suicide drones against moving hard targets like tanks were not that effective, unless directly hitting open hatches/engine. Videos did not often show the aftermath - destroyed sprocket does not mean destroyed tank. Azeri's got a bunch of trophees this way and reused them. Against IFV's/APC's and anything else? Deadly, due to thin protection.

    Military, specific:

    1. Armenia did not learn anything from the 2016 fighting, nor from the July of this year (though that would have been too late anyway). Too much believing in the fighting spirit (though it is important), in the success of the previous war, in the bullshit peddled by their leaders. They did not even follow the USSR army rulebook about prepared defenses, reporting, scouting, AA, etc. Those rulebooks are still actual, yet...
    2. Armenia did not commit fully . if the Baku could use the Syrian cannon fodder, so could Yerevan say that volunteers/deserters stole Armenian equipment and went to Artsakh to fight. A single Tor unit appeared at the end and is probably what ate the last Bayraktar. Jugding by the drone video they were affraid to attack it while it was on the move, only when it was hidden in a hangar. Not saying that full deployment of Armenian Tor's would have helped, but few shot down Bayraktars and the bigger scouts at the start of the war would have slowed the whole thing down to give Armenians more breathing space. Same applies for the much needed manpower, self-propelled artillery, etc. This is why there are talks of betrayal. Overblown, but the commitment clearly was not as much as it could have been. 150k Artsakh fought against 10 million Azerbaijan at least partly on it's own, with obvious conclusion.
    3. Shitload of equipment and men were lost absolutely needlessly. Camouflaging too late and too little, constant grouping up.
    4. They clearly did not expect for the defensive lines to be broken through. South is the more level terrain where tanks can be used much easier, thus should have had secondary lines prepared. They had 25 years for that. They also, very importantly, failed to react and throw reinforcements when south started to falter as Azeris did not stop breaking through, no matter how much they bled. No point holding north and center with all those men if those men never do anything.
    5. The battle of Shusha. Funny, but it kinda repeated the first one - city itself fell almost without a fight after being surrounded. Iraq already showed that sufficiently determined soldiers can hold posittions against tanks and planes for weeks and months (look at Mosul and Raqqa, ISIS fighters held them for absurd ammount of time during the last attacks, while under nonstop destruction from air and artillery) and we know Armenians had a lot of determination, often fighting to the death instead of being captured. With better leadership city should have become magnet to keep Azeri forces there and pull them into street battles. Shusha was too important to be just bombed from the air.
    6. Azerbaijan had a clear plan, a lot of preparations going back for years. The thinking from the first war had changed. They clearly went over corpses and did not falter about their losses, never letting go of the initiative. They did what no one thought they would - sent multitude units climbing over the mountain passes through the forests to get the troops to Shusha, which Armenians absolutely failed to stop or even notice in time. Normally the attack would have come via road.
    Additionally - perfect propaganda, quickly learning to show only successful strikes via drones, creating an image (if fake) of perfect strike capability.
    No mobile phones and public uploads to give up positions and situation on the front, no showing of their own fallen - good for the support back at home.
    7. Azeri infantry itslef performed relatively poorly. Too many videos of them being bombarded by Armenian artillery on a relatively level terrains, or lying in piles of corpses after being ambushed. Seems there were serious issues following the military regulations.
    8. Azeri AA over the country did not perform that well. The Scud's from 60ties got through, as did MLRS rounds.
    9. There are some reasons to think that Azeris at the end were actually starting to run out of steam - Bayraktars almost stopped bombing while targets clearly remained (their precision munition was not endless after all is the guess, suicide drones were still in stock though), Aliyev repeatedly said that the plan is to take everything back, yet the stump state of Arstakh remains, not under direct Baku control, even as Azeris were close to taking Stepanakert (at that moment defended by few hundred militia against some ~6 thousand) and encircling almost all army of Arstakh without any chance for them to be resuplied, and also the whole case of Iran having gathered sizeable forces on the Azeri border.
    10. The old Su-25's upgraded with laser guided bombs and receiving targeting for them from drones are still very effective. Almost no drones can carry FAB-100/250 bombs and those are much more devastating than the few kg drone ones.

    Humanity:

    1. "Serious concern" by countries/UN is not even funny as a meme now. Hypocrates, we all are hypocrates.
    2. Propaganda, especially nationalistic one works as well as it always has. I am looking at you, Azeris and Turks. Feel offended as much as you want, i just have to open internet to have all the proof I would ever need. And you, Armenians, as well, especially you. You are not banned from the internet. The progress of the war was always available and roughly understandable, especially if you cut off the bullshit coming from Baku and Yerevan both (they all lied buckets). Too many chose to believe the officials. Fighing in Hadrut a 2 weeks after it fell? Sure, whatever Mr. Nikol says.
    Oh, and reading Russian interwebs and seeing them doing schadenfraude about Armenian Sorosified PM and the loss in the war is quite dreadful. They don't see the irony nor can rationally think about it, sadly.
    3. This WILL thaw out other frozen conflicts. Taking territory by force is back on the menu. "It worked for Azerbaijan, why should not we do the same?" Next one is probably Donbas. Contrary to what a lot of Russians think Ukraine has spent the last 5 years preparing for this. And the "republics" have already played their useful idiot roles for Moscow.

    See you all on the next war... xD
    Oh, there already is a regional civil one in Ethiopia

    P.S.
    I still want to know WTF was that missile strike on the Baku during the last day of the war and why Azerbaijan is so silent about it. Obvious explanation due to range is Iskander strike, but that brings even more questions.
    Silence likely implies that Armenians this time actually hit something important. But no one is 100% sure that Armenia actually "have keys" to the units they bought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Why apologize for shooting down a combat helicopter of someone you are at war with? They apologized to Russia just because they want to keep them from really joining the fight.
    Because Armenia and Azerbaijan were not oficially at war and the place of shootdown was very far away from the front lines, on the actual proper border of both countries.
    Then again, as far as I know, that place has had cases of Azeri snipers shooting at cars driving on the Armenian side of border, so who knows. Local traditions xD


    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    [MENTION=1482315]
    I may visit the region in the coming years when the dust settles down. I bet the cuisine is great.
    He won't visit for shit. The 7 regions are mostly just ruins and the Artsakh itself is mostly under Armenian control still. Shusha is like 2x2 km, there is nothing to see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azerul View Post
    2- Turkey's operation to northern Syria was long after the mass displacements and refugee crisis (A. K. A. beginning of the Syrian civil war). This alone shows how falsely informed you are.
    Maybe do avoid consuming the propaganda? Kurds run away from the Turkish sponsored fighters. They were clearly there, right on the border of Turkey.
    Whole Afrin operation resulted in Kurdish displacement. There are enough posters who remember Kuntantee's bullshit posts back then, where we basically forced him to admit that the fighters actually are under the orders of Turkey and thus Turkey is responsible for their crimes (oh, how many of those there were)
    The mental gymnastics he did...

    Quote Originally Posted by Azerul View Post
    When in a thread consisting of 20 pages :

    1- No one mentions the committed war crimes -like deliberate missile strikes on a civilian areas- by the Armenian side,
    2- No one mentions Atrocies the Armenian side did in history -like xocali massacre-
    We already talked about this - first city strikes were done by Azerbaijan. The same country which started this war. Not expecting answer in kind is just insane. Don't start war if you can't stomach dead civilians. There are no wars where they don't die.
    We also already talked about who killed who first in recent times. Hey, really wanna talk about it? Ask Russians about the same events in Baku Might happen to learn something really not nice about that time.
    Oh, and finally... We have not denied crimes done by Armenians. Including in this war too. Yet... you see... It was the Azeri side which managed to get in the spotlight with head and ear cutting. Plus that infamous execution, which "totally was not done by Azeris", Baku swears on it, just like Baku swears on the axe murderer being national hero.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  5. #405
    So apparently the Armenians in Artsakh know what comes next; population exchange/ethnic cleansing. Some have started fleeing their homes, and rather than let their homes and businesses get looted/taken over by Azeris, are torching their buildings as they leave.

    True to form, the Azeris are crying about it, calling it "ecological terrorism".

    https://apnews.com/article/peacekeep...8331e6113463c9

    The Azeris are promising to "protect" Christians in Artsakh when they take it over. However, there's already reports of Azeris and their Turkish-backed terrorist militia allies desecrating churches.

    We all know what's going to happen, the Armenians are going to be driven out of one of their ancestral provinces, just like in Turkey.

    What remains to be seen is how many will die "mysteriously" and through no fault, of course, of the Azeris and their Turkish allies. We are talking about a country that treats Ramil Safarov, a convicted murderer, like a national hero.

  6. #406
    Some updates - official casualty count for Armenians is 2317 now, though the name list has not yet reached that. Oldest - born in 1949 (!), youngest - in 2002 (fuck this shit). Internet talks about 3k dead and 10k wounded out of force of 35k deployed - which again shows that Armenian army itself did not fully commit. For some reason hundreds of cops were sent into warzone, heavy casualties for them as well.

    As for Azeri - no official count and I doubt it is coming, will likely be something of "They are all Shahids and you won't understand it". People searching for necrologs say that there is at least 1 thousand. Probably during breaking through the initial casualties were equal or something like 1:1.5, but then went into Azeri favour when they started to roll.

    Ceasefire is holding (some media are stirring the air regarding it, sadly) and both sides are doing exchange of bodies. This will probably last a long time, they are everywhere.

    Supposedly there was assasination attempt on Armenian PM xD. Also, no one still has any idea where exactly he is right now.

    Some, ehh, small adjustments to the peace deal are being made on the fly, most likely decided in Moscow - town of Lachin for now stays in Armenian hands (was not supposed to, it is not in Artsakh), Russian peacekeepers have went to guard churches in the Azeri territory - Dadivank monastery, which recently featured armed pope saying he will die there if necessary has now a squad of peacekeepers on BTR's, plus it looks like they will patrol a lot of territory in the retaken Azerbaijani regions, looks like those where there were Armenian civilians. Also while the peace treaty said "soldiers, APC's and special equipment" it seems Russians have decided that the special equipment means tanks, MLRS launchers and the newest gen of eletronic warfare machines. Should send a strong enough signal to hotheads/morons on both sides that they are not going to be fucked with.
    People who when leaving burned down their houses, exhumed their dead, cut down trees, etc. might have been too hasty, though that was understandable.
    I have a feeling that soon Azeris will see that they are not exactly controlling the Artsakh after the victory, thus "fun" may start... Then again we already knew the conflict was not resolved.

    As for crimes, well... In the last week there has been few more videos, despite Baku forbidding mobile phones on the front:

    1. Azeris cutting ear off from supposed traitor - this time the guy was alive (going to bet that he is not anymore now).
    2. Azeris executing wounded Armenian soldier.
    3. Desecration of churches - the main church in Shusha, the same one which made rounds on international news after it was bombed is now marked with graffitti of the not-nice kind. Additionally, there is a video with Azeri soldier standing on top of cross of a small church and screaming "Allahu Akbar" - I am sure we all remember where we saw that last.

    I will say it again but anyone who believes Baku's propaganda that they all can live together is truly an idiot.
    Last edited by Easo; 2020-11-16 at 04:54 AM.
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  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Some updates - official casualty count for Armenians is 2317 now, though the name list has not yet reached that. Oldest - born in 1949 (!), youngest - in 2002 (fuck this shit). Internet talks about 3k dead and 10k wounded out of force of 35k deployed - which again shows that Armenian army itself did not fully commit. For some reason hundreds of cops were sent into warzone, heavy casualties for them as well.

    As for Azeri - no official count and I doubt it is coming, will likely be something of "They are all Shahids and you won't understand it". People searching for necrologs say that there is at least 1 thousand. Probably during breaking through the initial casualties were equal or something like 1:1.5, but then went into Azeri favour when they started to roll.

    Ceasefire is holding (some media are stirring the air regarding it, sadly) and both sides are doing exchange of bodies. This will probably last a long time, they are everywhere.

    Supposedly there was assasination attempt on Armenian PM xD. Also, no one still has any idea where exactly he is right now.

    Some, ehh, small adjustments to the peace deal are being made on the fly, most likely decided in Moscow - town of Lachin for now stays in Armenian hands (was not supposed to, it is not in Artsakh), Russian peacekeepers have went to guard churches in the Azeri territory - Dadivank monastery, which recently featured armed pope saying he will die there if necessary has now a squad of peacekeepers on BTR's, plus it looks like they will patrol a lot of territory in the retaken Azerbaijani regions, looks like those where there were Armenian civilians. Also while the peace treaty said "soldiers, APC's and special equipment" it seems Russians have decided that the special equipment means tanks, MLRS launchers and the newest gen of eletronic warfare machines. Should send a strong enough signal to hotheads/morons on both sides that they are not going to be fucked with.
    People who when leaving burned down their houses, exhumed their dead, cut down trees, etc. might have been too hasty, though that was understandable.
    I have a feeling that soon Azeris will see that they are not exactly controlling the Artsakh after the victory, thus "fun" may start... Then again we already knew the conflict was not resolved.

    As for crimes, well... In the last week there has been few more videos, despite Baku forbidding mobile phones on the front:

    1. Azeris cutting ear off from supposed traitor - this time the guy was alive (going to bet that he is not anymore now).
    2. Azeris executing wounded Armenian soldier.
    3. Desecration of churches - the main church in Shusha, the same one which made rounds on international news after it was bombed is now marked with graffitti of the not-nice kind. Additionally, there is a video with Azeri soldier standing on top of cross of a small church and screaming "Allahu Akbar" - I am sure we all remember where we saw that last.

    I will say it again but anyone who believes Baku's propaganda that they all can live together is truly an idiot.
    Being born in 2002 made them ~18 years old, a common age for soldiers in the modern era. Sad, but not shocking.

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Being born in 2002 made them ~18 years old, a common age for soldiers in the modern era. Sad, but not shocking.
    It means you are sending someone with few months training at best into battle - which is just idiotic. That's basically welcome to boot camp, here is your AK, tomorrow you are being sent to fight over there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
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  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    It means you are sending someone with few months training at best into battle - which is just idiotic. That's basically welcome to boot camp, here is your AK, tomorrow you are being sent to fight over there.
    The US Army until recently "only" provided 14 weeks of training to infantry before sending them to a unit (they added 2 more months in 2019). Russian conscripts receive all of their training at their unit.

  10. #410
    If someone wants to see something funny, then there's a look at Azerbaijani president visiting recaptured regions through a PSO-1 scope of the Dragunov rifle from over the Iranian side of the border

    https://twitter.com/StasSwanky/statu...17725497520129

    It is about 450 meters away. To put it simply, this can easily be interpreted as hint as to who is the boss in the region.

    Let's talk casualties some more:
    1. Syrian cannon fodder - 300+ dead out of 2.5k deployed is the current "information".
    2. Azeris - 1.5k-2k, should be without the above mentioned Syrians.
    3. Armenians - real number is more than 4k up to 6k, also according to the rumours. 4k looks likely at least.

    In the meantime Aliyev is still doing insults at Armenia on the official level, while Pashiyan is holding on to the power and still is hiding somewhere, while the president of the Armenia is demanding his resignation.
    Vae victis, truly.
    P.S.
    Someone on the Lost Armour has started to post memoirs from two Armenian volunteers from abroad who went to fight. Quite funny and quite sad. Everything starting how from 10+ wanting to fight only 2 actually went (I mean, no one really expected Kardashians to be fighting there, but still), how bunch of "important persons" just basically stole the donated aid money, how local communications were non-existant, equipment was from non-existant (machine gun ammo, personal protection) to overflowing (AK ammo, food), lack of manpower on the ground as opposed on the paper, crappy defensive fortifications, etc.
    Classic volunteer/militia stuff, but still, shows that Armenia was as good enemy to itself as Azerbaijan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    The US Army until recently "only" provided 14 weeks of training to infantry before sending them to a unit (they added 2 more months in 2019). Russian conscripts receive all of their training at their unit.
    Seems like a dumb thing to do. It is not like both sides did not have enough recruits, especially Azeris, the difference in performance of someone having served at least one full year simply will be better than the one having served 3-4 months, if not less and can barely shoot.
    I mean, Finland in 1939 or USSR in autumn of 1941 when there was no choice, sure, but not this time, maybe for Armenians and even that can be debated as we know their army mostly stayed in Armenia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
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  11. #411
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    This is looking more and more like a punt and less of a peace deal. In the initial announcements, there were only going to be Russian peacekeepers along the Lachin Pass corridor near Shusha on a relatively short stretch of it. But over the last week reality has been completely different. Russia has sent a LOT of peacekeepers (far more than that would have required) that have setup over 20 well armed checkpoints all over Nagorno-Karabakh, particularly near border areas.

    The big question is why. Is it to protect the ancient monasteries? Is it Russia's response to Turkish troops in Azerbaijan? Is it an admission that Armenia's military was essentially wiped out and they are very defenseless without Russia at least in the near-term? Or is this just setting up for a regional conflict down the road between powers larger than Armenia and Azerbaijan, as in Russia and Turkey? Maybe some all of those.

    At some point Russia is going to address the situation in Georgia no doubt, and Erdogan's intentions are to have the land from Baku to Istanbul be Turkish-Azerbaijani - without any Christian states in-between. Putin knows this which explains his (somewhat ominous) comments today on the area that future leaders will settle the fate of Nagorno-Karabakh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Biglog View Post
    This is looking more and more like a punt and less of a peace deal. In the initial announcements, there were only going to be Russian peacekeepers along the Lachin Pass corridor near Shusha on a relatively short stretch of it. But over the last week reality has been completely different. Russia has sent a LOT of peacekeepers (far more than that would have required) that have setup over 20 well armed checkpoints all over Nagorno-Karabakh, particularly near border areas.

    The big question is why. Is it to protect the ancient monasteries? Is it Russia's response to Turkish troops in Azerbaijan? Is it an admission that Armenia's military was essentially wiped out and they are very defenseless without Russia at least in the near-term? Or is this just setting up for a regional conflict down the road between powers larger than Armenia and Azerbaijan, as in Russia and Turkey? Maybe some all of those.

    At some point Russia is going to address the situation in Georgia no doubt, and Erdogan's intentions are to have the land from Baku to Istanbul be Turkish-Azerbaijani - without any Christian states in-between. Putin knows this which explains his (somewhat ominous) comments today on the area that future leaders will settle the fate of Nagorno-Karabakh.
    Russia probably thinks Azerbaijan is eyeing an ethnic cleansing against Armenians in the region, so they went in with more force to send a message to Azerbaijan about that.

  13. #413
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    If someone wants to see something funny, then there's a look at Azerbaijani president visiting recaptured regions through a PSO-1 scope of the Dragunov rifle from over the Iranian side of the border

    https://twitter.com/StasSwanky/statu...17725497520129

    It is about 450 meters away. To put it simply, this can easily be interpreted as hint as to who is the boss in the region.

    Let's talk casualties some more:
    1. Syrian cannon fodder - 300+ dead out of 2.5k deployed is the current "information".
    2. Azeris - 1.5k-2k, should be without the above mentioned Syrians.
    3. Armenians - real number is more than 4k up to 6k, also according to the rumours. 4k looks likely at least.

    In the meantime Aliyev is still doing insults at Armenia on the official level, while Pashiyan is holding on to the power and still is hiding somewhere, while the president of the Armenia is demanding his resignation.
    Vae victis, truly.
    P.S.
    Someone on the Lost Armour has started to post memoirs from two Armenian volunteers from abroad who went to fight. Quite funny and quite sad. Everything starting how from 10+ wanting to fight only 2 actually went (I mean, no one really expected Kardashians to be fighting there, but still), how bunch of "important persons" just basically stole the donated aid money, how local communications were non-existant, equipment was from non-existant (machine gun ammo, personal protection) to overflowing (AK ammo, food), lack of manpower on the ground as opposed on the paper, crappy defensive fortifications, etc.
    Classic volunteer/militia stuff, but still, shows that Armenia was as good enemy to itself as Azerbaijan.



    Seems like a dumb thing to do. It is not like both sides did not have enough recruits, especially Azeris, the difference in performance of someone having served at least one full year simply will be better than the one having served 3-4 months, if not less and can barely shoot.
    I mean, Finland in 1939 or USSR in autumn of 1941 when there was no choice, sure, but not this time, maybe for Armenians and even that can be debated as we know their army mostly stayed in Armenia.
    When your unit gets called up you go, doesn't matter if you just arrived from training yesterday or are weeks from retirement. Its how militaries operate.

  14. #414
    2,425 Armenian deaths now, 21 captured only (think about it, then also remember how few captured Azeris you saw).
    At least couple hundred dead are still not identified yet.

    If someone understands Russian, then you might want to read this - a view and analysis of someone from Armenia about the war. It is surprisingly objective and clicks together well with what we saw:
    https://telegra.ph/44-dnya-vojny-Itogi-11-18

    And Armenian PM is still holding unto the power, I am truly surprised.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    When your unit gets called up you go, doesn't matter if you just arrived from training yesterday or are weeks from retirement. Its how militaries operate.
    Results are obvious, though. And I truly question the need for someone close to useless on frontlines. This is 21st century, I am sure they could figure it out. Like... dedicated training units, which then send people to their actual units? By that I mean more than 3 months of initial boot camp.

    Or, well, in the end it is as it always has been - old men send the young one to die for them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  15. #415
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    2,425 Armenian deaths now, 21 captured only (think about it, then also remember how few captured Azeris you saw).
    At least couple hundred dead are still not identified yet.

    If someone understands Russian, then you might want to read this - a view and analysis of someone from Armenia about the war. It is surprisingly objective and clicks together well with what we saw:
    https://telegra.ph/44-dnya-vojny-Itogi-11-18

    And Armenian PM is still holding unto the power, I am truly surprised.



    Results are obvious, though. And I truly question the need for someone close to useless on frontlines. This is 21st century, I am sure they could figure it out. Like... dedicated training units, which then send people to their actual units? By that I mean more than 3 months of initial boot camp.

    Or, well, in the end it is as it always has been - old men send the young one to die for them.
    After basic you go to individual training. Army combines them in the same location. When I was in the Navy I had 11 months of specialized training post boot camp.

  16. #416
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Armenia lost to a superior force, that all. Can blame no one, but themselves. Had two decades to prepare for this.

    Should be glad they have even anything remaining there.

  17. #417
    vids of beheadings on telegram, azeris making ISIS style videos. grim

  18. #418
    They do seem to enjoy putting out shitty media of their little mutilations and beheadings.
    Do you hear the voices too?

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    vids of beheadings on telegram, azeris making ISIS style videos. grim
    Quote Originally Posted by ParanoiD84 View Post
    They do seem to enjoy putting out shitty media of their little mutilations and beheadings.
    Yep, looks like now we have a video of live beheading too, was just a matter of time... All this shit is seeping out more and more. Gee, I wonder where our usual supporters of Turkey and Azerbaijan have gone. xD

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Armenia lost to a superior force, that all. Can blame no one, but themselves. Had two decades to prepare for this.

    Should be glad they have even anything remaining there.
    I would also, at least a bit, blame international politics allowing land changes via war like if it was a century ago, but oh well... As I said before - prepare for fun in Donbas 2: The Eletric Boogaloo, it is coming. Then we can always return to Sudan, or India/China, etc., a lot of frozen and half frozen conflicts waiting to be unthawed now that the war has worked others will decide that they can too.

    But yes, even with the pretty incomparable advantage of 4-5 times by Azeris in the most important categories, they definitely could have prepared much much better. Now that the dust is settling more and more funny shit is coming out from there, which provides answers to questions. Starting from the good old corruption and stealing to the living on the success of the previous generation, which won the last war.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  20. #420
    Legendary! Ihavewaffles's Avatar
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    If Hillary was President she would either bomb the Armenians for being ewul Russian proxy against defenseless innocent Azeris like her husband Bill did in the Balkans, or she would have provided assistance like Obama did for the Saudis during their genocide in Yemen...Why people think if Trump wasn't President, it would be better?

    It would be worse. While Trump is incompetent on a great many things, he didn't start any new war...which hasn't happened since...since...uh...honestly, I don't know, earliest President I remember was Ronald Reagan, so would have to been someone before him. So, must have been a President in either 20th or 19th century..

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Armenia lost to a superior force, that all. Can blame no one, but themselves. Had two decades to prepare for this.

    Should be glad they have even anything remaining there.
    Yes, why they can't get gazillions in free military shit like you? Here's some free F-22 Israel! Maybe the Armenians should have had more of their people die in the Armenian genocide to qualify for free stuff?..

    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Yep, looks like now we have a video of live beheading too, was just a matter of time... All this shit is seeping out more and more. Gee, I wonder where our usual supporters of Turkey and Azerbaijan have gone. xD
    They are waiting for a possible Biden Presidency, where they n western media will either not report it or call it Russian propaganda (Telegram is Russian, thereby it's 100% all 'lies')
    Last edited by Ihavewaffles; 2020-11-25 at 05:19 PM.

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