Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[BeepBoo]

That's all fine and dandy if the only people being harmed by their idiocy is themselves.

I wonder if you have the same feelings about poor people having kids they can't afford and have to beg for help from others (via social services or whatnot).

But that's not what we're facing, and pretending that it is just colors you with the same brush that paints them.

Except that is what we're facing. You can take control of your own circumstance and avoid those public places if you don't want to risk exposure to retards. That's been the case since the dawning of humanity. And yeah, it's going to cost you something. Convenience, money, something. So, weigh the options and make the choice for yourself, and assess how idiotic people are where you live.

You want to not have to be inconvenienced by other peoples' bad decisions while also still participating with those people. Not how that works. Just order everything from amazon if that's the level of risk you're willing to accept. Don't bother ever driving. Don't bother with a lot of things.

Besides that, I'm all for private stores enacting whatever mandates they want for entry. Smart people are entirely capable of beating out the stupid people without government interference.

[PhaelixWW]

I wonder if you have the same feelings about poor people having kids they can't afford and have to beg for help from others (via social services or whatnot).

I'm not even sure how this is supposed to relate to what I said.

Except that is what we're facing. You can take control of your own circumstance and avoid those public places if you don't want to risk exposure to retards.

Leaving aside the fact that that's not even remotely true, it's almost like you're saying that I'm losing my "freedom" to go out in public in order to salvage some idiots' "freedom" to be an plague-bearing idiot.

What an inanely simplistic viewpoint of the world, and one utterly devoid of logical reasoning. It's pure sophistry.

[BeepBoo]

I'm not even sure how this is supposed to relate to what I said.

A poor person having a child is necessarily inflicting their poor circumstance on someone else against their will.

Leaving aside the fact that that's not even remotely true, it's almost like you're saying that I'm losing my "freedom" to go out in public in order to salvage some idiots' "freedom" to be an plague-bearing idiot.

Except you're still free to go out into public. Just because you don't want to risk it doesn't mean you've lost the freedom.

What an inanely simplistic viewpoint of the world, and one utterly devoid of logical reasoning. It's pure sophistry.

Mhm. News flash: morals in-and-of-themselves are devoid of logical reasoning. For them not to be, you have to pre-suppose some universal goal that has to be true as to what is "the best" outcome, which is impossible. The best you can do is say stuff like "letting people decide for themselves <stuff> will probably get some people killed whereby not letting them decide <stuff> and instead forcing them to follow <other stuff> will save people!"

True, but who says the biggest and best goal is to save as many people as possible? Clearly that's not some universality.

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And if the government had done their job we wouldn’t have nearly as many deaths. When you let people choose you get the situation we’re in. Hence, your views have resulted in where we are. They went with your views. We have 250k deaths and rising.

No, they were lied to as sheep and chose to exercise their freedom under that farce. Not that I excuse their ignorance, but... again... freedom in-and-of itself didn't cause shit. Stupid people believing lies and then exercising that freedom as much as they were enabled to did. Stop calling the gun the murderer.

Maybe if people didn't look to the government for leadership, blindly, they wouldn't have believed the lies.

[Zan15]

My "views" haven't resulted in shit. People being stupid and not making the same choices I have while being allowed to exercise their freedom and being spoon-fed bullshit lies from the orange asshat is what resulted in that. I was/am perfectly intelligent and responsible in my freedom. Just because others aren't doesn't mean freedom is bad.

Allowing people to make bad choices is part of freedom, and letting them suffer for it is just as important.

Their "freedom" choice is bad when it adversely effects other people.
this is true for every one of our "freedoms" in this country.

at that point its no longer considered a freedom.

this is constitution 101 how do you not know this?

[Crissi]

when a problem is community based (such as pandemics), relying on individuals to do the right thing never works, because a good chunk of individuals are dumb as bricks.

Community problems require community solutions. Individual "freedom" only serves to extend pandemics, because diseases dont care about your freedoms.

[BeepBoo]

Their "freedom" choice is bad when it adversely effects other people.
this is true for every one of our "freedoms" in this country.

Oh, so a perfectly healthy person who isn't covid positive running around without a mask is adversely impacting others?

this is constitution 101 how do you not know this?

Constitution 101 says innocent until proven guilty. Go figure out exactly who caused someone else to get sick if you want to play the blame game.

This was about people mistrusting the Government(the CDC and whatnot) and science. Not trusting government blindly. If they did they’d have worn masks when it was mandated in states. Instead they fought against it. You really need to pay better attention. If we had arrested people like Australia did we’d be in much better shape.

Or if people listened to science instead of being convinced by the orange. There are plenty of things that would have enabled us to do better. Hell, we could probably be on the other side of this thing realistically if we had. That's not the point.

Community problems require community solutions. Individual "freedom" only serves to extend pandemics, because diseases dont care about your freedoms.

They do care about your specific DNA makeup, though. Maybe we'd be better off if only left with the people who were a-symptomatic carriers after the fact. Maybe humanity would be more resilient if that were the case. I'm not saying that's the future I personally want, I'm just saying there are plenty variations of what "better" looks like and to wholesale discount an outcome based on your own personal morals is ignorant of such a possibility actually being better, long-term. We don't know and we can't know what is actually "better."

[Edge-]

Oh, so a perfectly healthy person who isn't covid positive running around without a mask is adversely impacting others?

We goin on the honor system or some shit? Do you trust every person you walk by on the street to be intelligent and informed? To be honest? To not place their own personal desires (like walking around without a mask) ahead of the societal good?

Because I sure fuckin don't.

Constitution 101 says innocent until proven guilty.

Completely irrelevant.

Go figure out exactly who caused someone else to get sick if you want to play the blame game.

Given that some people refuse to acknowledge the virus exists.
Given that there are widespread reports of people actively refusing to participate on contact tracing.
Given that there are people who knowingly go out without masks while sick.
Given that people can easily lie, and there's no law compelling them to be truthful with contact tracers so there is literally no penalty if they refuse to say anything.

This is the world of bad fanfiction.

[Zan15]

Oh, so a perfectly healthy person who isn't covid positive running around without a mask is adversely impacting others?

So you have the ability to know real time who is positive and whom is negative? Damn the govt would sure love that tech, you got a white paper on that?
Negative test this morning can very easily mean positive in 3 days because he went and became a carrier at work right after the test.
The white house proved this in a very dramatic ironic way this year.

Constitution 101 says innocent until proven guilty. Go figure out exactly who caused someone else to get sick if you want to play the blame game.

Sorry but making them wear a mask has nothing to do with innocence vs guilt.
You don't want to follow a legal requirement then it won't be hard to prove you are guilty. simple picture of you without a mask, poof.

Dangerous actions by an individual does not require an actual person to be effected by the action.
That is why you can get arrested for drunk driving and convicted without effecting a single person or causing any damage. This is law 101 ya know....
(just one of the hundreds of examples i can give you)
That is why you should be arrested for not wearing a mask.

[Masark]

Oh, so a perfectly healthy person who isn't covid positive running around without a mask is adversely impacting others?

One word : Asymptomatic.

Just because you think you're perfectly healthy doesn't mean you aren't Typhoid Mary.

[PhaelixWW]

Oh, so a perfectly healthy person who isn't covid positive running around without a mask is adversely impacting others?

LULZ. We have people who are dying from COVID and nearly the last thing they say before they die is that they don't believe that they have COVID because it's all a hoax.

Why should anyone trust some rando on the street to know (or even care) if they're contagious?

[BeepBoo]

We goin on the honor system or some shit? Do you trust every person you walk by on the street to be intelligent and informed? To be honest? To not place their own personal desires (like walking around without a mask) ahead of the societal good?

I trust a majority to, yes. I see about 99% mask coverage where I live, but then again.. I live in a town that literally lives and breathes medicine. Maybe the issue is where you live and the population of that place?

Completely irrelevant.

Someone was talking to me about "constitution this and that", so it's absolutely relevant. If you can prove who transmitted the disease and can pinpoint their lack-of-masking-up as the cause, then by all means. Go after them for causing someone else to get sick. Oh. You can't do that in 99.99% of cases? Sounds like you're abusing the law and forgoing someone's right to be innocent until proven guilty, as the constitution outlines.

This is the world of bad fanfiction.

Thatsthepoint.jpg

If you want to go down the whole "but these people are actually causing <stuff>!" then go after them with the same burden of proof necessary for other crimes, not just a whole bunch of what-ifs.

Why should anyone trust some rando on the street to know (or even care) if they're contagious?

I personally don't, which is why I only go out if I absolutely need to. I'm also someone who is young and healthy and least likely to be impacted by it, which is why I even feel ok going out at all instead of being a shut-in getting weekly amazon deliveries.

But, I digress. You have to decide for yourself how much risk you're willing to accept. Every time I drive, I do so knowing it *could* be my last. Some idiot driving drunk, someone falling asleep at the wheel, someone gluing their face to their phone, etc. I have to accept my own responsibility for my own safety.

[BeepBoo]

With your views we will always have people who are morons and will dispute science. That’s what you get with no education and weak national leadership. I get you wish everyone was smart and did what was best, but a massive chunk of people are easily mislead. That’s what’s known as reality. Your fantasy is just that, a dream.

Now if only we let something happen as it naturally would to these people in their times of need.... maybe we'd be left with a more sustainable level of ineptitude while the rest of us freethinking smart people who don't ignore science and education continue to not be impacted by such burdens...

Also, lets back up those feels of yours with some statistics. Best report I've seen is 25% of americans think there is some level of truth to covid being a hoax in some fashion. That's a HUGE far-cry from your fear of those types becoming a majority and they've been enabled from the start of this pandemic. Think about that. Under what is probably their most IDEAL conditions, we're just at 25%. Intelligence has prevailed more times than it hasn't and as it continues to increase, you can bet it will continue to root out stupidity that is counter to that intelligence eventually.

[Zan15]

Someone was talking to me about "constitution this and that", so it's absolutely relevant. If you can prove who transmitted the disease and can pinpoint their lack-of-masking-up as the cause, then by all means. Go after them for causing someone else to get sick. Oh. You can't do that in 99.99% of cases? Sounds like you're abusing the law and forgoing someone's right to be innocent until proven guilty, as the constitution outlines.


.

Again you do not need to prove they caused harm to anyone.

Just the basic act of doing something dangerous is enough proof to deem them guilty. Hell there does not even need to be another person within miles and the law allows you to charge and convict someone of dangerous actions.

A single picture of them not wearing a mask, bam proof.

[Crissi]

Oh, so a perfectly healthy person who isn't covid positive running around without a mask is adversely impacting others?


Constitution 101 says innocent until proven guilty. Go figure out exactly who caused someone else to get sick if you want to play the blame game.


Or if people listened to science instead of being convinced by the orange. There are plenty of things that would have enabled us to do better. Hell, we could probably be on the other side of this thing realistically if we had. That's not the point.


They do care about your specific DNA makeup, though. Maybe we'd be better off if only left with the people who were a-symptomatic carriers after the fact. Maybe humanity would be more resilient if that were the case. I'm not saying that's the future I personally want, I'm just saying there are plenty variations of what "better" looks like and to wholesale discount an outcome based on your own personal morals is ignorant of such a possibility actually being better, long-term. We don't know and we can't know what is actually "better."

Eugenics isn't a good thing, dude. Especially when there have been historical precedents for perfectly healthy, genetically fine people dying form diseases (see 1918 flu). Like, yours is a terrible argument cause diseases dont care about "good genes" either lol.

As such, its going to be better to try and reduce the severity of pandemics than "take a chance" of surviving one.

[Granyala]

when a problem is community based (such as pandemics), relying on individuals to do the right thing never works, because a good chunk of individuals are dumb as bricks.

Community problems require community solutions. Individual "freedom" only serves to extend pandemics, because diseases dont care about your freedoms.

Pretty much.
And, as we can clearly see: community problems also require the leadership to present a unified front. It's similar to raising children.
Parents must not let the child see them discussing or even arguing about parenting.

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Oh, so a perfectly healthy person who isn't covid positive running around without a mask is adversely impacting others?

Here's the kicker: you cannot distinguish a "perfectly healthy person" from an asymptomatic carrier. The person in question most certainly cannot distinguish the states either because ... you know ASYMPTOMATIC means NO SYMPTOMS.

That's the real problem with this disease. If we all knew when we were contagious, this whole mask wearing crap wouldn't be a thing.

[Forogil]

Here's the kicker: you cannot distinguish a "perfectly healthy person" from an asymptomatic carrier. The person in question most certainly cannot distinguish the states either because ... you know ASYMPTOMATIC means NO SYMPTOMS.

That's the real problem with this disease. If we all knew when we were contagious, this whole mask wearing crap wouldn't be a thing.

I agree with the conclusion, but the asymptomatic part isn't that clear:

First and foremost many who don't show any symptoms at the moment are technically pre-symptomatic, and will later get symptoms. That matters for contact tracing, but it doesn't help you unless you can see into the future.

Additionally some have symptoms, but light ones, and even with some clear symptoms it's pretty hard to see if another person has a headache or has lost the sense of smell.
And finally do you trust others?
When you hear about lots of cases being detected and almost all being asymptomatic I always wonder if they were truly that asymptomatic, or if many of them knew they had symptoms and pretended they hadn't, using the asymptomatic cases as a cover story.

[Granyala]

And finally do you trust others?

Sadly, if this pandemic has made one thing clear it's that you cannot trust other people when it comes to these things.
I mean, people in the west didn't care about the health of their co-workers before, thinking they are the heroes when they work while sick and they still don't.

[Shadowferal]

Hmm...interesting;

Study finds some mouthwashes can kill coronavirus

Some mouthwashes can kill the novel coronavirus within 30 seconds after being exposed to it in a lab, according to a study that scientists at Cardiff University in Wales say could signal "promising signs" for mouthwashes being used to help curb the spread of the pandemic.

A report released Friday from the university showed that mouthwashes containing at least 0.07 percent cetylpyridinium chloride showed an ability to eradicate the virus. The study has yet to undergo peer review.

"This study adds to the emerging literature that several commonly-available mouthwashes designed to fight gum disease can also inactivate the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus (and other related coronaviruses) when tested in the laboratory under conditions that are designed to mimic the oral/nasal cavity in a test tube," the study's lead author, Richard Stanton, said.

[Shadowferal]

Oh Jesus now mouthwash is going to be the new toilet paper.

Brb gotta go to walmart real quick so I can post them on Ebay for $1,999 ea!

Well, the magic number is .07%.
My current mouthwash has .05%.

Story of my life...always a day late and a dollar short...and a couple of fraction of percentage points off.

[Edge-]

Not sure if posted yet... just amazed, that as cases continue rise and more deaths happen, that we’re still dealing with people like this:

Sen. Sherrod Brown Asks GOP Colleague To Wear A Mask. He Refuses

VIDEO IN LINK

Link: https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/sherr...021513502.html

Brown was asking him on behalf of the aides who were in close proximity. Aides who I suppose Ted Cruz doesn't think count as people when he called Brown an "ass" because Brown was 50+ feet away from Sullivan.

One party wants to get folks killed in this country, and they're doing a fuckin stellar job of it right now.