Why do Hunters and Shamans have to use mail ??

[Fantazma]

What it is:

Cloth	Leather	Mail	Plate
Mage Priest Warlock	Rogue Demon Hunter Monk Druid	Hunter Shaman	Paladin Warrior Death Knight

What it should be

Cloth	Leather	Plate
Mage Priest Warlock Monk	Rogue Demon Hunter Druid Hunter	Paladin Warrior Death Knight Shaman

Just PERFECT dude.



Strange how ordinary people totally randomly fix a problem that the responsible professionals ... still did not imagine.

[paxen]

Actually it's just the word for armor made of linked anythings. Scale armor is called scale mail, linked rings is called ring/chain mail, they are both "mail", just different types with different benefits (chain being more flexible, scale having better piercing protection).

Off topic again, but using "mail" for armour in general only appeared around 1800. But at that time they used it exactly for that, a word for armour (eg plate mail). Earlier usage specifically refers to armour or pieces of armour made up of interlocked metal rings. But words are weird, and usage changes. But having "mail" refer to neither armour specifically made of metal rings, nor as a synonym for armour, but for a nebulous category of armour that's heavy but does not include plate is....odd.

[Fantazma]

Your whole thread has no logic.

Look at that. I was going to write a huge text with all the rational logic behind my thread but the post right under yours ... saved me all that time:

Mail armor is a useless relic of a bygone age. It made somewhat sense at a time when warriors started out with mail armor and upgraded to plate and hunters could go form leather to mail. The issue is that even back then it was so underused and pointless as a general concept that it never found much use. Later they locked you into your highest armor grade via passive talents that increased your throughput.

I'm all in favor of getting rid of it. It barely makes sense for hunters in one tiny part of their roleplay when it comes to pretending to be a medival crossbow man, usually the fantasy of hunters among the other races than human is just leather to begin with. Shaman never made a lick of sense when it comes to wearing mail, other than to excuse spicky shit on their armor because oRc. I would absolutely welcome getting rid of it and merging it into leather. That would expand the transmog options of both hunters and shamans tremendously and with forced personal loot the distribution of armor classes is a non-issue to begin with.

/\ That is it. Ecxatly. Perfect.

[Jotaux]

Oh, and monks should wear cloth, not leather. They originally had to use leather because otherwise they'd have to make ton of agility cloth drops, but that's not applicable anymore.

4 cloth (casters and monks)
4 leather (rest+hunters)
4 plate (current+shamans)

I agree with this but how would you make that change? Make all of a monk's leather gear unusable and force them to get cloth gear?

- - - Updated - - -

Considering leather armor is usually designed for either rogues or druids (dark and/or edgy or nature-themed in some way), it tends to be pretty obvious which set is the leather set which , believe it or not, took me only a second to see the top was mail and the bottom leather. If you wanted to try questing greens or something, you'd have a better argument but dungeon and raid gear is very distinct.

Based on that I would assume the top one is for druids and its the leather set.

[ymirsson]

Look at that. I was going to write a huge text with all the rational logic behind my thread but the post right under yours ... saved me all that time:



/\ That is it. Ecxatly. Perfect.

Im not opposed to the idea of changing armour classes, especially since "mail armour" indeed always was a blurry concept for a class of armor next to leather and plate opposing it, but all your OP was stating is :"i want to wear rogue t19 on my hunter"

Luckily for you, someone else was able to reason for that change more intelligible.

[paxen]

I agree with this but how would you make that change? Make all of a monk's leather gear unusable and force them to get cloth gear?

The usual thing is for blizz to give characters a set of gear to replace the old; with scaling ilvl it could likely be given to all monks at once. The natural time for such a thing is prepatch before an expansion, when lots of things are in flux as it is and players will soon dump all their gear anyway.

You could probably even bribe max level monks (and also hunters and shamans) by giving them a set with ilvl a bit higher than what they had.

[Fantazma]

I agree with this but how would you make that change? Make all of a monk's leather gear unusable and force them to get cloth gear?

We don't see many monks wanting to use cloth, nor many warriors wanting to use mail.
The historical and very recurring complaint is that MAIL is the most complicated category of xmogs.
What looks good on the shaman looks bad on the Hunter, and the other way around too. It is in MAIL that the problem is.

The simplest way for everyone to solve the problem and make many people happy would be simply this:

Hunters can use mail and ALSO leather xmogs.
It would make perfect sense and it would be VERY simple for Blizzard to add that to the game.
Sure he solves this by pressing 3 or at most 4 buttons.

Of course, when Blizzard adds this great change, a mage will appear wanting to use plate and maybe two or three warriors wanting to use cloth ..... well ... just ignore these crazy ppl.

- - - Updated - - -

Im not opposed to the idea of changing armour classes, especially since "mail armour" indeed always was a blurry concept for a class of armor next to leather and plate opposing it, but all your OP was stating is :"i want to wear rogue t19 on my hunter"

Luckily for you, someone else was able to reason for that change more intelligible.

I make it clear that I love the rogue's tier-19 and my alt Hunter would look perfect in it. But I would never create a topic just to vent this. In the topic I also say that I don't see any point in Hunters and Shamans using mail ... and with this new craze of not having more sets of classes ... it gets worse because it is impossible for Blizzard to create a set that pleases Hunters and Shamans at the same time (and, of course, my "little personal dream" would be realized if someone at Blizzard thought about it)
Also... yes ... I was lucky that someone wrote what I was going to answer.
"Time is money friend".

[ymirsson]

What looks good on the shaman looks bad on the Hunter, and the other way around too. It is in MAIL that the problem is.

Subjective opinion is not absolute truth. You devalue your argument by making such statements in an absolute manner.


Also, just adding leather transmogs to hunters is neither a perfect solution, does not make perfect sense and sure as hell, would not only make many people happy, but also many people very, very angry.

[Queen of Hamsters]

... I would pay to NOT have to dress my hunter in that set.

Most of my favourite sets for my Hunter, were made specifically FOR hunters. Bring back class sets!

[Mirishka]

And to end my outburst I leave below an image of Hunter more Badass that you (maybe) will never see in the game:

Looks like a rogue holding a bow, and therein lies the problem. Mail at least gives a unique visual identity.

[loras]

C'mon man...
Look at the two images below.
If Blizzard had not told us that the the top one is mail and the one below is Leather we would never know.
Show me where the "mail" is in the first image and where the "leather" is in the second image!
Also the first one (mail) looks like leather ... and the second one (leather) looks like plate. lol
For Blizzard the mail and leather sets follow no criteria and are only named when they are ready.
I keep asking: What's the matter with simply merge mail with leather ??

You can literally see the scales on the mail armor and the bands on the leather armor...

[DatToffer]

This way Shaman become the battlemage esque spec. My thoughts are though that the next released class will be a mail wearer to try and establish some kind of gear parity.

Okay, since the beginning of this thread I thought every person suggesting that shamans wear plate was just a mad man completely ignorant of the Shaman fantasy in cultures, myths, etc.

But since you seem to just want to play your shamans as the battle-mages we'll never get, I see it's not ignorant, just inconsiderate.

[Rendark]

What it is:

Cloth	Leather	Mail	Plate
Mage Priest Warlock	Rogue Demon Hunter Monk Druid	Hunter Shaman	Paladin Warrior Death Knight

What it should be

Cloth	Leather	Plate
Mage Priest Warlock Monk	Rogue Demon Hunter Druid Hunter	Paladin Warrior Death Knight Shaman

This way Shaman become the battlemage esque spec. My thoughts are though that the next released class will be a mail wearer to try and establish some kind of gear parity.

I don't want my shaman to use plate thanks.

[cocomen2]

I don't want my shaman to use plate thanks.

Ion, i know you want shamans to suffer an eternity but common don't make me sad.

(when Rogue has shit-ton survivability and shamans gameplay mechanic is reincarnation, you know that it is time to equip some Plate)

[ymirsson]

Ion, i know you want shamans to suffer an eternity but common don't make me sad.

(when Rogue has shit-ton survivability and shamans gameplay mechanic is reincarnation, you know that it is time to equip some Plate)

because wearing different armour would solve all problems a class could have!

[cocomen2]

because wearing different armour would solve all problems a class could have!

Yes it would not solve shamans problems , BUT atleast allow shamans to look not like (shit) roadkill combination of 1 copper coin and leather armor , since now Shaman armor feels like shit and looks the same.

[Armourboy]

The issue isn't Shaman and Hunters wearing mail, the issue is Blizzards art department never makes decent looking sets. Hunters would look fine in leather I agree, but Shaman would look ridiculous in most of the plate sets.

[Depakote]

how else will they send their letters?

[Sansnom]

Okay, I know that maybe this is not a unanimous opinion but most of the players I talk to agree with me when I say that MAIL is the worst armor category in the whole world of warcraft. I speak of the appearance of this and the enormous difficulty in assembling an xmog that we like.

Legacy I guess. The original designers probably though it would be a good idea at the time and now not as much. I suppose if there was an extra class that would use it would make sense to keep it.

There are other similar equipment that I find odd. Caster shields. I always though this was odd, in addition to just two specs uses it.

I also find caster offhand the same but at least there are more specs that uses it.

Just my opinion.

[Ihazpaws]

I hate leather most in wow. 80% of leather gear / set / pieces look horrible and do not work well together. Leather pieces are very flat / 2dimensional and look ok only on like 2 races in game. Mail in the other hand feels more bulky and fits really well for shamans and for hunters little bit too. Only thing I would like to change is that mail should have somekind special thing in it or much higher armor rating. Hunters are ok with mail because they can kite but shamans need soooooo much more armor because melee/physical is gonna be 24/7 on their skin and it feels like I am wearing cloth pieces because of the amount of dmg going thru the armor. Against casters shamans have good and reliable kit to counter/survive and same time combat feels balanced and rewarding.

Aesthically I love mail pieces and actually hate leather ones.