Can they ever, realistically, allow other races to be Demon Hunters...?

[Ielenia]

they were the only elite force, they were chosen to go into natherza, or wherever is the planet and fight, they are the high rank tiers in the illidari, why they are not an elite force? why they are not better than the low illidari?

Because this:

I'm pretty sure Illidan is heavily biased toward his own ideology and concepts, so if Illidan believed that the demon hunter path is the only effective path, he'll act as if the demon hunter path is the effective path, regardless if it truly is effective or not.

Illidan being heavily biased toward his own ideologies would of course lead him to trust no one but his own demon hunters, and not the broken or naga or even other demons. They could easily be nothing but fodder for his war. It makes sense his elite squad is comprised of only demon hunters when you consider that possibility.

you are implying they became DH just for the hell of it and not by their effectively.

Nope. That was absolutely never my argument, and none of what I wrote even implies that. This is you, once again, misrepresenting my arguments.

Yes, and even if it is not, it will be widespread like it is, and people will follow that anyway, again, nonissue

Are you admitting that the demon hunter path is not necessarily the most effective?

this falls to the same thing as always, perfectionist fallacy

Not believing unproven things is not "perfectionist fallacy".

[Syegfryed]

Nope. That was absolutely never my argument, and none of what I wrote even implies that. This is you, once again, misrepresenting my arguments.

indeed does, cause you said everything they do, others can do, or even better, you even went far to say "their name is just a name", so, why there is DH at all? if there is no upsides the class would be irrelevant, and it is show they are effective hunters of demons, like of course their name suggest, hell they are technically demons if that is not something, then nothing it is.

Are you admitting that the demon hunter path is not necessarily the most effective?

I said even if it was not, it would make no difference, because they would think it is, and they don't have meta knowledge, they would go thinking they are and would become DH anyway.

[Ielenia]

indeed does, cause you said everything they do, others can do, or even better, you even went far to say "their name is just a name", so, why there is DH at all?

You're jumping all over the place, here. None of what you said there has anything to do with your claim that I said that "people become demon hunters for the hell of it". This has become clear you're not reading my posts to understand what I'm talking about, you're only looking for things to argue against, regardless of context, and strawmanning the hell of out of what I write.

I said even if it was not, it would make no difference,

But it would, since we're talking about actual efficiency, not perceived efficiency.

[Dervrak]

The day I see a Gnome jump into the air and fire green lasers from his eyes is the day I'll know WoW has finally jumped the shark......

[Maximus Testiculos]

The day I see a Gnome jump into the air and fire green lasers from his eyes is the day I'll know WoW has finally jumped the shark......

gnome warlocks do that/

[Syegfryed]

You're jumping all over the place, here. None of what you said there has anything to do with your claim that I said that "people become demon hunters for the hell of it". This has become clear you're not reading my posts to understand what I'm talking about, you're only looking for things to argue against, regardless of context, and strawmanning the hell of out of what I write.

Dude, you literally said there is no need for a DH because there is some weird googles, thats not how it works, DH are effective against demons, period, its their whole thing, just like paladins are against undeads and other things, of course gameplaywise will be different.

But it would, since we're talking about actual efficiency, not perceived efficiency.

What im saying is, even if it was not, it would not matter, since The illidari and the characters would believe it was, and with that mindset they would train more

So in the end, realistically, there can be other races DH.

[Ielenia]

Dude, you literally said there is no need for a DH because there is some weird googles,

No. I never said that.

DH are effective against demons, period,

How? Show me their abilities and gear that make them "effective" against demons. Because, as far as I know, fel magic is not efficient against demons. Holy magic is, though.

its their whole thing, just like paladins are against undeads and other things, of course gameplaywise will be different.

"Turn Evil" works against demons. Also, back when the spell existed, "Exorcism" used to have guaranteed crits against undead and demons.

What im saying is, even if it was not, it would not matter, since The illidari and the characters would believe it was, and with that mindset they would train more

Which I find hard for them to train more demon hunters at the moment since the demon threat has been basically nullified with the dismantling of the Burning Legion. And again, it was never about them training more, it's about why others would want to go through the sacrifices and maiming necessary, as well as risking their lives training for something that... doesn't have much use right now.

[username993720]

How? Show me their abilities and gear that make them "effective" against demons. Because, as far as I know, fel magic is not efficient against demons. Holy magic is, though.

Patch 7.0.3:

Imprison Demon
20 yd range
Instant 10 sec cooldown
Requires Demon Hunter
Imprisons a demon for 1 min. Damage will cancel the effect. Limit 1.

Detainment (PvP talent)
Imprison can now be used on Humanoids and Beasts, and targets become immune to damage and healing while imprisoned.

Patch 7.1.5:

Imprison Demon
20 yd range
Instant 15 sec cooldown
Requires Demon Hunter
Imprisons a demon, beast, or humanoid for 1 min. Damage will cancel the effect. Limit 1.

"Turn Evil" works against demons. Also, back when the spell existed, "Exorcism" used to have guaranteed crits against undead and demons.

"Turn Evil" used to be "Turn Undead":

Turn Undead
Paladin ability
20 yards yd range
Mana
30 sec cooldown
2 seconds cast
The targeted undead enemy will be compelled to flee for up to X sec. Damage caused may interrupt the effect. Only one target can be turned at a time.

Exorcism background:

This spell was one of the Paladin's abilities in Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness:

Calling upon the forces of light and purity, the Paladin is able to dispel the walking dead that plague the lands of Azeroth. Exorcism can be used to cause injury to entire groups of these undead terrors, or to utterly eradicate a lone creature. These creatures of Hades seem to gain strength in numbers, thus the greater number of undead that are exorcised within a group, the less actual damage each undead will take. This act is extremely taxing upon the Paladin, making it necessary for him to observe a period of rest before once again invoking this great power.

"Holy Wrath" had a chance to stun Undead.

But, you do have the Lightforged racial:

Demonbane
Lightforged draenei racial
Passive
Experience gains from killing Demons increased by 20%.

[rhorle]

How? Show me their abilities and gear that make them "effective" against demons. Because, as far as I know, fel magic is not efficient against demons. Holy magic is, though.

Why would Demon Hunters be ineffective against Demons if their entire purpose is to hunt Demons?

[Ielenia]

Why would Demon Hunters be ineffective against Demons if their entire purpose is to hunt Demons?

I never said they're ineffective. I am simply challenging this notion that they're better than all the other classes when it's about demons.

- - - Updated - - -

Patch 7.0.3:

Imprison Demon
20 yd range
Instant 10 sec cooldown
Requires Demon Hunter
Imprisons a demon for 1 min. Damage will cancel the effect. Limit 1.

Detainment (PvP talent)
Imprison can now be used on Humanoids and Beasts, and targets become immune to damage and healing while imprisoned.

Patch 7.1.5:

Imprison Demon
20 yd range
Instant 15 sec cooldown
Requires Demon Hunter
Imprisons a demon, beast, or humanoid for 1 min. Damage will cancel the effect. Limit 1.



"Turn Evil" used to be "Turn Undead":

Turn Undead
Paladin ability
20 yards yd range
Mana
30 sec cooldown
2 seconds cast
The targeted undead enemy will be compelled to flee for up to X sec. Damage caused may interrupt the effect. Only one target can be turned at a time.

Exorcism background:

This spell was one of the Paladin's abilities in Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness:

Calling upon the forces of light and purity, the Paladin is able to dispel the walking dead that plague the lands of Azeroth. Exorcism can be used to cause injury to entire groups of these undead terrors, or to utterly eradicate a lone creature. These creatures of Hades seem to gain strength in numbers, thus the greater number of undead that are exorcised within a group, the less actual damage each undead will take. This act is extremely taxing upon the Paladin, making it necessary for him to observe a period of rest before once again invoking this great power.

"Holy Wrath" had a chance to stun Undead.

But, you do have the Lightforged racial:

Demonbane
Lightforged draenei racial
Passive
Experience gains from killing Demons increased by 20%.

Also, we have a priest in Hellfire Peninsula, in Honor Hold, using prayer to exorcise a demon.

[rhorle]

I never said they're ineffective. I am simply challenging this notion that they're better than all the other classes when it's about demons.

Their entire purpose is to hunt demons. They are specialists. They use the power of the demons to fight the demons. Of course that means they will be more effective then others. The entire premise of the class is that they were trained because they were the most effective tools to accomplish the goals of Illidan. He would have trained them to be something else if they were just the same at dealing with demons as anyone else.

[Shadowferal]

I lament that Paladins used to be the premier demon hunters...

[username993720]

Also, we have a priest in Hellfire Peninsula, in Honor Hold, using prayer to exorcise a demon.

Anchorite Barada is a reference to the films Army of Darkness and The Day the Earth Stood Still.

Priests actually have the Shackle Undead ability:

Shackle Undead
Level 32 priest ability
30 yd range
2% of base mana
1.5 sec cast
Shackles the target undead enemy for 50 sec, preventing all actions and movement. Damage will cancel the effect. Limit 1.

[Ielenia]

Anchorite Barada is a reference to the films Army of Darkness and The Day the Earth Stood Still.

It doesn't matter if he's a reference to a book, a movie, a comic book, or a real life event. He's part of the franchise's lore.

[huth]

It doesn't matter if he's a reference to a book, a movie, a comic book, or a real life event. He's part of the franchise's lore.

He's also from back when they were still writing with almost no regard to any kind of continuity, though.


I don't think they could really explain new non-Elf DHs of the current type. Illidan was barely able to get Blood Elves working, and even Night Elves had high attrition. They'd have to make new cosmetic kits for others to really make sense. Like a Pandaren DH throwing paper charms all over the place, or a Worgen tapping even deeper into their inner beast.

[Ielenia]

He's also from back when they were still writing with almost no regard to any kind of continuity, though.

Again, doesn't matter. Until Blizzard decides to retcon him out of the lore, he is part of it.

[tommyhil622]

I lament that Paladins used to be the premier demon hunters...

Were they really? They were more vs undead. Mages and locks were the demon hunters irc.

[Shadowferal]

Were they really? They were more vs undead. Mages and locks were the demon hunters irc.

My paladin had a ball taking out the demons in Felfire Hill back when abilities auto-crit demons and undead..and stunned.

[tommyhil622]

My paladin had a ball taking out the demons in Felfire Hill back when abilities auto-crit demons and undead..and stunned.

I get where you coming from, but yes they would crush for sure.

[Shadowferal]

I get where you coming from, but yes they would crush for sure.

One of those rare moments I felt my toon was over-powered.
But then again I would think that paladins are just that; natural demon and undead hunters. If I could rewrite the lore, forsaken would have to develop an ability to protect against them in pvp.