[TV] The Mandalorian (*Spoilers*)

[Selastan]

Well to be fair, why would he stop by? He only went there to get repairs, his mission is still priority. Hell, he didnt even waste time as soon as he finished the side quest he took off immediately.

Touche. His group aren't exactly one for sentimentality.

[Yunru]

It was pretty explicitly stated that the experiment is about trying to populate a host with midichlorians. No reason to believe cloning is involved in any way.

I am sure they are creating a sith warriors (or trying to). Since its before Luke made a Jedi temple.


They look like clones to me. Also one of the characters in series worked on Kamino clone tech.

[rhorle]

It was pretty explicitly stated that the experiment is about trying to populate a host with midichlorians. No reason to believe cloning is involved in any way.

The figures in the tanks looked similar to the snoke clones seen in the movies. While that could just be a generic husk I think the connections all point to clones. Cloning might not be the end goal though and could just be the means they are using to test the implanting of force powers.

[PACOX]

It was pretty explicitly stated that the experiment is about trying to populate a host with midichlorians. No reason to believe cloning is involved in any way.

I would imagine the Snoke clones have a high m-count since Snoke was a decent Force user. Maybe Palpatine requires in intermediate body? Who knows?

Kind of off-topic, I imagine sustaining Palpatine is something like the Emperor of Mankind (WH40K). All I can picture is a daily sacrifice of no less than 20 force-sensitives to keep him 'alive'.

[Biomega]

Kind of off-topic, I imagine sustaining Palpatine is something like the Emperor of Mankind (WH40K). All I can picture is a daily sacrifice of no less than 20 force-sensitives to keep him 'alive'.

Not unreasonable considering the big bad "original" Sith Emperor achieved his near-immortality by luring a bunch of powerful force users to a planet and then sacrificing them and all living things on the entire planet.

But I think this is just about trying to create an army of super soldiers to rebuild the Empire. Palpatine's plans are probably so secret at that point no one in the remnants of the Empire actually knows it's going on.

[Selastan]

I dunno, if they can clone a body but it doesn't have the midichlorians it'd be pretty important to them to find a way to make that clone force sensitive if it was Snoke.

To my understanding, Midi-Chlorians aren't needed to use the Force, but are an indicator of it. It isn't their presence that lets you use the Force, but your ability to use the Force leads to them growing in your body. If they wanted to create an Emperor clone or a Snoke, they shouldn't need Force-sensitive blood to do it. HOWEVER, if the Force-sensitive Dark Trooper thing is what the canon is going with, that could be a possibility. Taking existing people and infusing them with Midi-Chlorian rich blood might not turn them into a Jedi, but it could theoretically give them special abilities as a side-effect.

However, I am going to go out on a limb and theorize that the Mandalorian, as a whole, is going to be Snoke's origin story. The Empire are in the early stages of figuring out how to clone Palpatine, and their early experiments are Dark Troopers, Stormtroopers with Midi-Chlorian rich blood transfused into them, mutating them and giving them special powers. Most fail, leading to the failed experiments seen in this episode and in Rise of Skywalker. Some succeed, and lead to cyborg and force enhanced dark troopers, who prove to be villains for the rest of the series. One trooper turns out to be Force-sensitive already, and instead of becoming a reject OR a dark trooper, becomes Snoke, and is the ultimate bad guy of the series. He gets defeated, earning him that big scar, and while the main cast have their happy ending Snoke takes over the First Order, which should be forming around this time in the Unknown Regions. I'm also going to guess that Moff Gideon becomes Snoke's mysterious 'first apprentice', trading in the Dark Saber for a red one eventually.

Of course, all this will happen in the background, only coming to the surface when their plans cross Din Djarin's. That's the charm of the series. Big, important Sith and Jedi stuff happening in the background while Din just wants to get paid and feed his green baby.

[Selastan]

If they’re trying to use them to infuse somebody, for whatever reason, it would indicate you are incorrect.

Having Mid-Chlorian rich blood transfused might not make you a Jedi or Sith, but that doesn't mean it has zero effect at all. Using magic blood to make monsters is a somewhat common fantasy trope, and very much in character for the evil Empire.

[Aurrora]

After this episode, I'm kind of curious. What happened to the Armorer? She kind of made it seem like she was sacrificing herself to keep away the Stormtroopers, but she killed them all when they came that way. After they escape and take down the Moff, they claim that Navarro is free from the Imperials, meaning the garrison was all wiped out. So the Armorer should still be alive in the sewers, why didn't Jin stop by when he came back?

I think she was only staying behind waiting for Din to get back, and the surviving Covert had regrouped on another planet. After she delivered the news she rejoined them.

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The figures in the tanks looked like figures in a tank. There was zero detail and thus zero reason to believe it has anything to do with cloning or Snoke or Palpatine.

Except that this series is supposed to be the bridge that connects the Empire with the First Order, we know that Snoke was artificially created and Snoke's theme song plays when they look at the tanks.

[DarkTZeratul]

Except that this series is supposed to be the bridge that connects the Empire with the First Order, we know that Snoke was artificially created and Snoke's theme song plays when they look at the tanks.

And Rhorle's not the only one who thought the thing in the first tank looked vaguely like Snoke.

[Selastan]

Right, monsters like Snoke.

Well, we know he wasn't BORN a dark side master, he was made. He existed before, and something happened to him. We also know that it took a while for Palpatine to be resurrected, the Empire would have done it right away if they could. It's highly likely that Snoke was a byproduct of whatever experiments the Empire did while developing the tech to revive Palpatine, but judging from all the failed experiments he was the only one to turn out the way he did. It's all speculation of course, and we just barely learned anything about what the Empire is doing. I'm just putting the puzzle together when we don't have all the pieces.

Empire wants Jedi blood, we see Dark Troopers, people in tubes similar to dead Snokes, Snoke's origins, the Emperor's resurrection timeline...

It all reminds me of Final Fantasy VII. (I'm not spoiler tagging this because everyone who wants to know already does)
The Niebleheim reactor. The pods with the monsters, JENOVA, Sephiroth. Shinra wanted to make the ultimate SOLDIER, one who could lead them to the 'Promised Land'. They took DNA from the ancient monster JENOVA, and infused people with it. Most died or became monsters, a select few became mutants with super-powers (Angeal and Genesis) and one became exactly what they wanted: Sephiroth. That's what's I think is happening here in Star Wars. The Child is JENOVA, the rejects and Dark Troopers are the monsters, Snoke is imperfect like Angeal and Genesis, and the Emperor returned is the end goal, the Sephiroth. The only difference: Snoke is an accident. I think he was already a Force-sensitive before the experiments, so in infusion of Midi-Chlorians unlocks his talent on top of mutating him.

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Should also point out that the Emperor has the ability to create life, like he did with Anakin. Could play a factor here, but unlikely. The Emperor couldn't do anything with the Force while dead, George Lucas is adamant that any post-death Force is purely a Light side thing beyond the Sith.

[Lothaeryn]

It's hard to say, my only personal experience with them has been through two video games that I think are non-canon, Battlefront (the original ones) and Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy. Haven't seen any other sources of info, personally. No comics or movies. I was surprised that Jedi: Fallen Order didn't have any, tbh.

IIRC, the first time Darktroopers were ever referenced were in a 90's game called Dark Forces, I think it was the Kyle Katarn series of games that uncovers an imperial research program creating Droid/Cyborg soldiers which were the Darktroopers.

Then sometime later the comics and books re-used the idea for their own ends and kinda went in all directions from there.

After this episode, I'm kind of curious. What happened to the Armorer? She kind of made it seem like she was sacrificing herself to keep away the Stormtroopers, but she killed them all when they came that way. After they escape and take down the Moff, they claim that Navarro is free from the Imperials, meaning the garrison was all wiped out. So the Armorer should still be alive in the sewers, why didn't Jin stop by when he came back?

Didn't the Armorer say she was leaving as soon as she dealt with the Imperials? Or at least implied if she survived, she would leave Navarro and find the remaining members of the convent who escaped before Gideon cracked down on them. As far as Din goes, he probably assumed she was dead or wasn't there for that reason.

Personally I find it quite interesting how many in the outer rim straight up give no fucks about the Republic and want them to stay out. The "cop" testimony at the end was hilarious.


EDIT: Now that I recall, weren't Dark Troopers in Rebels? I could have sworn there was an episode where they were droids called Dark troopers.

[PACOX]

Should also point out that the Emperor has the ability to create life, like he did with Anakin. Could play a factor here, but unlikely. The Emperor couldn't do anything with the Force while dead, George Lucas is adamant that any post-death Force is purely a Light side thing beyond the Sith.

The EU and Disney ignored the "dark siders can't do stuff in death" rule. It's just different from being a Force ghost.

Sith can't become Force ghosts. It's incompatible with their ideology since you have have to give yourself to the Force to become one. They can attach themselves to a place or object though, clinging to the physical world. Not alive but not quite a Force ghost, and they are completely bound to the place/object. They can come back through Sith juju. Look up Darth Momin.

I'm willing bet that Sidious bound himself to something, which is how he was eventually resurrected.

[Selastan]

The EU and Disney ignored the "dark siders can't do stuff in death" rule. It's just different from being a Force ghost.

Sith can't become Force ghosts. It's incompatible with their ideology since you have have to give yourself to the Force to become one. They can attach themselves to a place or object though, clinging to the physical world. Not alive but not quite a Force ghost, and they are completely bound to the place/object. They can come back through Sith juju. Look up Darth Momin.

I'm willing bet that Sidious bound himself to something, which is how he was eventually resurrected.

Momin's ability is sort of cheating the rule, since he doesn't 'die' if his consciousness doesn't. Canon Star Wars seems to imply that certain abilities are unique to individuals, or at least rare. Like Cal Kestis' Force Stasis and Psychometry. I would bet that since nothing like that was seen elsewhere, Momin's ability to bind himself to his mask was unique, either to him or to his race. Why else would Darth Vader not do it, and get rid of his burned and broken body in favor of something new?

[Fencers]

Gina Carano is so fucking jacked. I love it.

[Swnem]

What if he reincarnates into Yoda....

I mean... there have been sith rituals to do crazy stuff, but Yoda has not been the only one. It is likely the child is just a new individual from his species and the jedi had a deal with the race that they would send one per generation.

The Yoda species home planet must be an impressive place.

[PACOX]

Momin's ability is sort of cheating the rule, since he doesn't 'die' if his consciousness doesn't. Canon Star Wars seems to imply that certain abilities are unique to individuals, or at least rare. Like Cal Kestis' Force Stasis and Psychometry. I would bet that since nothing like that was seen elsewhere, Momin's ability to bind himself to his mask was unique, either to him or to his race. Why else would Darth Vader not do it, and get rid of his burned and broken body in favor of something new?

Why would Vader want to do that? I don't remember Vader ever wanting to be immortal. I could see Sidious doing it as a back up plan, though.

Vader wouldn't bind himself to his suit because he used multiple suits. After fighting Momin he probably would have seen being bound to one object as an exploitable weakness. It's been a while since I read the comic but I think the only thing he'd really change about his body is to have less of it. He makes a comic that having less a body makes him (paraphrasing) more free and attuned with the Force. An able body doesn't make one strong with the Force, otherwise Palpatine and Yoda would have been week. Young Anakin and Luke also would have been a lot weaker after losing their hands. Vader also alludes to pain allowing him to better focus his rage. I can't see Vader wanting to change much of anything about himself, seeing Sidious offered and Vader himself could have redesigned his suit(s) if he was really being held back.

But I don't think Momin was unique, he was just the most successful in bringing himself (before Sidious). And even though it's up in air, it seems all the Rule of Two Sith are part of current master Sith - so there's so Sith juju going on.

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I mean... there have been sith rituals to do crazy stuff, but Yoda has not been the only one. It is likely the child is just a new individual from his species and the jedi had a deal with the race that they would send one per generation.

The Yoda species home planet muat be an impressive place.

That would be weird since Kid and Yoda were alive at the same time.

[s_bushido]

The figures in the tanks looked like figures in a tank. There was zero detail and thus zero reason to believe it has anything to do with cloning or Snoke or Palpatine.

They weren't just figures in a tank. They were deformed figures in a tank.



Like...you know...

[Ezyah]

Ngl, the spaceship fight was really really well done, especially for a tv show... Great realisation.

[Orange Joe]

I mean... there have been sith rituals to do crazy stuff, but Yoda has not been the only one. It is likely the child is just a new individual from his species and the jedi had a deal with the race that they would send one per generation.

The Yoda species home planet must be an impressive place.

except Yaddle and Yoda were both Jedi at the same time.

[Selastan]

except Yaddle and Yoda were both Jedi at the same time.

The Child secret son of Yoda and Yaddle confirmed.