It's extremely complex to navigate the covenant choices to decide for what you want

[epigramx]

You have 4 covenants each of which has 2 major abilities that are completely different and unique and WITHIN EACH of those covenants there are 3 soulbinds that have an ENTIRE TREE of again relatively unique abilities (at least within the covenant) so we're talking about making a choice based on about TWELVE sub-trees and extra differences beyond those.
This should had been clearly simpler because I'm one of those idiots that have multiple degrees in the sciences and I still think this is not easy to wrap around your head for a coherent all around big picture decision.

[notthebees]

Do you only make whine threads? Every time I see a negative thread, it's you.

[Baneto]

I will admit this is a lot confusing for the average player.

[epigramx]

I will admit this is a lot confusing for the average player.

No joking. This is practically impossible for at least 80% of the subscribers.
I have done university classes that are much simpler to wrap around.

[dekapitator]

It does sound confusing but in the end... maybe only the dedicated few or hardcore pushing mythic guilds actually use this. Im pretty shure the vast majority of the game goes to icy veins/class discord channel and just takes whatever is the best talent for there classes/spec without actually reading or caring about the rest.

[epigramx]

Im pretty shure the vast majority of the game goes to icy veins/class discord channel and just takes whatever

Which would be a mistake in many cases because a lot depends on your guild and the boss and your style. It's especially a mistake when the community decides what is "Best" for healers and tanks. Using patchwerk-y simcrafts to decide what is best is slighty stupid for a dps and 100 times more stupid for a healer or tank.

[dekapitator]

Which would be a mistake in many cases because a lot depends on your guild and the boss and your style. It's especially a mistake when the community decides what is "Best" for healers and tanks. Using patchwerk-y simcrafts to decide what is best is slighty stupid for a dps and 100 times more stupid for a healer or tank.

Like i said only the dedicated few that want the push high numbers and clear mythic content in the first weeks of the expansion probably figure out wats best or what not in boss fights. Im one of the people that sometimes have to work for like 12 - 16 hours a day and just want an "optimal" spec without needing to sim myself 20 - 30 times inorder to get 1 dps more. I just take te recomended spec from a website and see what happens. Im in a casual raiding guild where everyone just plays what he likes and for fun and we also got 6/12mythic down.

My reason for a covenant is not what abilities are the best for me but what i like the most as in transmog/mounts etc.. imo i think more people should just enjoy the game with whatever they want to play. And don't look at numbers anymore. Unless you want to be in the top 100 worlds first.

From a style perspective i don't understand what you mean.

[epigramx]

Like i said only the dedicated few that want the push high numbers and clear mythic content in the first weeks of the expansion probably figure out wats best or what not in boss fights. Im one of the people that sometimes have to work for like 12 - 16 hours a day and just want an "optimal" spec without needing to sim myself 20 - 30 times inorder to get 1 dps more.

The bosses in this game are so variable that simcrafting is incapable to give an "average good" without further clarification of how to even decide what average means.
For example some of the early bosses in a raid are closer to "patchwerk" but since they are also the easiest it's completely useless to built around those.
And we haven't gone to the extreme variability of what your guild needs or what you play best..

[Accendor]

It does sound confusing but in the end... maybe only the dedicated few or hardcore pushing mythic guilds actually use this. Im pretty shure the vast majority of the game goes to icy veins/class discord channel and just takes whatever is the best talent for there classes/spec without actually reading or caring about the rest.

Is that a valid excuse tho?

[Shedaar]

I agree this is extremely confusing even for a player like me (I'd consider myself well above average, though I'm not a top mythic player).
Especially that there might be last minute tuning which would disrupt everything, which is what me and my colleagues are afraid of the most :/

[dekapitator]

Tbh mate could be i am wrong but i think you make the game harder for yourself then you should be doing. Because if people dont play what they like they are just addicted to game and not enjoying it anymore imo.

While it is true that you need a variety of classes its not the "class or spec" that wipes your guild/party on boss. Its just the tactics where everyone fails or maybe 1 person killing the raid. Its true that some bosses maybe need more ranged dps and others more melee. Its not impossible... just harder to kill.

If you play what your guild needs then your basicly in the hardcore enviroment again. If i need to play something i dont like because my guild "needs" it. i will always be underperforming because i want to play what i like and play best.

[Frolk]

If its too confusing for u to pick

Just wait for us scary "mythic raider elitists" to pick the most optimal and then rest of u can just copy what we do.

For 80% of the playerbase it wont have much difference on your output on what u pick, as the bottom 80% dont play good enough to make a difference anyway to make good good use of the Covenant abilities or Soulbinds.

[Kharadin]

You have 4 covenants each of which has 2 major abilities that are completely different and unique and WITHIN EACH of those covenants there are 3 soulbinds that have an ENTIRE TREE of again relatively unique abilities (at least within the covenant) so we're talking about making a choice based on about TWELVE sub-trees and extra differences beyond those.
This should had been clearly simpler because I'm one of those idiots that have multiple degrees in the sciences and I still think this is not easy to wrap around your head for a coherent all around big picture decision.

I'm pretty sure first year linalg courses are harder than this collection of decisions. If you insist on "solving" the decision you have SimC, I'd have liked an undergrad that easy.

[Garymorilix]

Can you actually give me numbers that would indicate why it matters which one you choose?
Take a single spec and break down the number differences for me between each covenant and soulbind please.

Unless you can show me MORE than a 10% difference between the best and the worst one I don't care which one is the "best".

Why do you even want to min-max this?
Just take whatever aesthetic you like and roll with it.

[Packmule]

If its too confusing for u to pick

Just wait for us scary "mythic raider elitists" to pick the most optimal and then rest of u can just copy what we do.

For 80% of the playerbase it wont have much difference on your output on what u pick, as the bottom 80% dont play good enough to make a difference anyway to make good good use of the Covenant abilities or Soulbinds.

Oh snap, shots fired lulzz

[Omedon]

It’s really not that hard:

Pick what fits your character concept. Don’t overthink it. 99% of the content in the game (outside strict covenant campaign stuff of course) is designed to be experienced by everyone regardless of covenant. Furthermore don’t make yourself play with people that will overthink and judge. Know your limit, play within it, and relax.

[LordTakeo]

No joking. This is practically impossible for at least 80% of the subscribers.
I have done university classes that are much simpler to wrap around.

Are... are you just searching an excuse to rub in your education on a random forum? Cause your first two post sound like you'd be overwhelmed by something that's on par with choosing a college degree.

Anyways, I'll try to simplify it.

You got 4 covenants. If you want to choose them only on power, you need to look at your specc first, and then at what you wish to major in. PvP/M+/Raids.
Does your specc enough AoE by themselves to make M+ a nonissue, and maybe lacks burst instead?
Take a covenant that gives you a burst option.
If you have multible burst options, look at what else your specc lacks. Is it survivability? Take the burst thats with kyrian/necrolord. Does it lack mobility? Nightfae and Venthyr might be an option then.
Now you chose a covenant, based on complimenting your class/specc's weakness, giving you a smoother experience during gameplay. Now you got Soulbinds left, and... Spoiler alert.
Soulbinds are pretty irrelevant. Kyrian used to have the go to strongest palegos, which got 'adjusted' recently, so Soulbinds are now more there, to conpliment what you do. PvP/PvE/Survivability outdoors/indoors. And they are freely swappable within your covenant, so that choice is pretty lenient.

I hope this helped a little? Since utility and the ability to funnel damage/consistantly perform is more important than sheer dps. Moonkins may not be top dps, but b-rezz and Innervate, alongside roots and roar are invaluable.
Same as warlock healthstones, ports and gates.

Look what compliments your class, then 1-2 covenants should fall away, then you can pick whats better for AoE or Single Target, and if there's still a choice, look at survivability&mobility.

You can do it! It's like a flowchart!



Edit: You can always choose purely on aestetic too, I will raid like that for example. Venthyr would be my best, but I just looove Necrolord. Atleast it's defensive ability is a big boon to me still.

[CalamityHeart]

Don't look at it in a big picture way. Start with your initial choice of four covenants, then when you've made that choice, there are three unique Soulbinds that are based solely on the first choice you made. It's not a decision based upon TWELVE DIFFERENT SUB-TREES!!!?!?!!11?!?! It's a choice of four. Then it's a more flexible choice between three.

Experiment between the different abilities. You'll have that opportunity over the course of the leveling experience. Think for yourself in determining which you might enjoy the most. Or let Icy-Veins tell you what to think. WoW is not a complicated game, and choosing a covenant is not a complex and complicated decision.

[Unlimited Power]

People at the very high end will naturally pick whatever sims the highest. Anyone else will pick what they like.

Why does it really matter if you're doing 2-5% more or less damage in any given situation if you're clearing the content you're doing?

If you're not in a top 100 guild or competing for gladiator or m+ ladders, it really won't matter what you ultimately pick.

And if you regret your choice, you can switch and be completely caught up within a couple of weeks.

[Wadrak]

Since the expansion is going to last 2 years and multiple content patches.

Im considering trial and error in first content patch.
Maybe try more covenants.

And over time the decision will crystalize for the later content patches.
When you should have more clearer idea what covenant to use.