The Limitations of Flesh

[Rozz]

What material would be best suited for an ultimate being? We've seen how characters in the past needed some sort of physiological upgrade to scale with their growing power, so what'd be the end goal?

Thinking about characters like Sylvanas or Turalyon, the further you go in one direction the less you can maintain your base form. Illidan, Malfurion, and Neltharion are great examples of this. So when it comes to our current warcraft powerhouses, what's the next step in their progression? What's the pinnacle they can reach and at what cost?

[Derpules]

something something void elves

[Sagenod]

What material would be best suited for an ultimate being? We've seen how characters in the past needed some sort of physiological upgrade to scale with their growing power, so what'd be the end goal?

Thinking about characters like Sylvanas or Turalyon, the further you go in one direction the less you can maintain your base form. Illidan, Malfurion, and Neltharion are great examples of this. So when it comes to our current warcraft powerhouses, what's the next step in their progression? What's the pinnacle they can reach and at what cost?

Well would you say the Titans are the strongest things in the material universe? I would, and they're born of a mysterious energy contained within planets. We can speculate their physical form is comprised of Arcane energy in its purest form, being the ultimate beings of Order.

However as we have seen with Argus and the potential "Void Titan" that would be born if the Old Gods fully corrupted the world-soul of Azeroth, it seems they are not limited to Arcane as their energy source and possibly their composition. Rather, Titans can seemingly incorporate the energy of the universal forces into their forms, perhaps if exposed to enough of it. Argus's tortured world-soul became a being of Death, it would seem (I mean look at his abilities). I would say he was effectively an undead Titan via exposure to Fel energy to such a great extent, which as we know is anathema to Arcane and as such, the Titans.

I'd say from what we understand thus far, the material with the greatest potential for power is that of the Titans. Whether that's raw Arcane energy or something more complex, who knows.

[Varodoc]

It is clear that a mortal body can only contain so much cosmic power before exploding. There is one DH in the starting scenario whose body was literally incinerated because it could not contain the chaotic energies of Fel that it was injected with. Gul'dan's and Varian's bodies exploded because of the massive Fel energies they were injected with. Tyrande could be torn apart by the power of Elune with which she's infused.

This isn't really an issue related only to mortals either. Deathwing's body was torn apart by the corrupting energies of the Old Gods, and even Sargeras' own body was cracked and set ablaze by the Fel. Kil'jaeden's body literally blew up because of the overwhelming Fel energies within it.

And then we also have cases like Alleria Windrunner, who was a mortal, but was able to resist the massive power injection derived from getting blasted in the face by the essence of a Void Naaru. Therefore, it seems to me that anyone could potentially be torn apart by these powers, even higher beings like Deathwing and Sargeras. The key lies in how you wield said powers. Through rigorous training (both mental and physical) and discipline/willpower, even a mortal can contain massive amounts of energy within their flesh. Alleria absorbed within her own body the essence of a Void Demi-god and then of the Void Naaru L'ura, without blowing up. Meanwhile Deathwing, a great Dragon Aspect, was ravaged by N'Zoth's power (just look at the horrifying Madness of Deathwing).

These powers are ultimately like a sword. It doesn't matter how tough or muscular you are, if you can't wield a sword, you'll end up hurting yourself. So, even if Sargeras was a massive Titan, he ended up suffering damage due to the Fel energies he was corrupted with (flaming beard and hair, fiery cracks all over his body...). Meanwhile Alleria, a mortal, consumed 2 Void demi-gods without suffering any drastic physical alteration.

[Rozz]

Well would you say the Titans are the strongest things in the material universe? I would, and they're born of a mysterious energy contained within planets. We can speculate their physical form is comprised of Arcane energy in its purest form, being the ultimate beings of Order.

However as we have seen with Argus and the potential "Void Titan" that would be born if the Old Gods fully corrupted the world-soul of Azeroth, it seems they are not limited to Arcane as their energy source and possibly their composition. Rather, Titans can seemingly incorporate the energy of the universal forces into their forms, perhaps if exposed to enough of it. Argus's tortured world-soul became a being of Death, it would seem (I mean look at his abilities). I would say he was effectively an undead Titan via exposure to Fel energy to such a great extent, which as we know is anathema to Arcane and as such, the Titans.

I'd say from what we understand thus far, the material with the greatest potential for power is that of the Titans.Whether that's raw Arcane energy or something more complex, who knows.

I would agree, but it almost feels like a cop-out since they're the gods of the universe. But maybe there's a limit to what mortals can obtain since that's not the main goal of most arcane influenced races/classes. Perhaps the potential of a Titan Keeper is something races from the curse of flesh could reach and Magni isn't entirely off the mark (however consuming Azeroth doesn't seem like something he'd do ;p). Lei Shen did actually meet that mark in the past.

- - - Updated - - -

It is clear that a mortal body can only contain so much cosmic power before exploding. There is one DH in the starting scenario whose body was literally incinerated because it could not contain the chaotic energies of Fel that it was injected with. Gul'dan's and Varian's bodies exploded because of the massive Fel energies they were injected with. Tyrande could be torn apart by the power of Elune with which she's infused.

This isn't really an issue related only to mortals either. Deathwing's body was torn apart by the corrupting energies of the Old Gods, and even Sargeras' own body was cracked and set ablaze by the Fel. Kil'jaeden's body literally blew up because of the overwhelming Fel energies within it.

And then we also have cases like Alleria Windrunner, who was a mortal, but was able to resist the massive power injection derived from getting blasted in the face by the essence of a Void Naaru. Therefore, it seems to me that anyone could potentially be torn apart by these powers, even higher beings like Deathwing and Sargeras. The key lies in how you wield said powers. Through rigorous training (both mental and physical) and discipline/willpower, even a mortal can contain massive amounts of energy within their flesh. Alleria absorbed within her own body the essence of a Void Demi-god and then of the Void Naaru L'ura, without blowing up. Meanwhile Deathwing, a great Dragon Aspect, was ravaged by N'Zoth's power (just look at the horrifying Madness of Deathwing).

These powers are ultimately like a sword. It doesn't matter how tough or muscular you are, if you can't wield a sword, you'll end up hurting yourself. So, even if Sargeras was a massive Titan, he ended up suffering damage due to the Fel energies he was corrupted with (flaming beard and hair, fiery cracks all over his body...). Meanwhile Alleria, a mortal, consumed 2 Void demi-gods without suffering any drastic physical alteration.

You do have a point about the damage those energies cost the wielders. I believe it doesn't come naturally to just anyone and clearly relies on the individual's constitution/use to determine success. And with Alleria it also serves the point. She's clearly some sort of singularity that is ascending to something beyond an elf. While that may come at a cost in the long run (as like you said, even Sargeras has scars), what would her final state look like? And can she reach it without destroying herself in the process?
It's fascinating that void magic manifests in so many different ways. Compared to the flesh monstrosities we know, VEs are doing pretty well for themselves and could represent the link between what Alleria was and what she can become.

[Varodoc]

You do have a point about the damage those energies cost the wielders. I believe it doesn't come naturally to just anyone and clearly relies on the individual's constitution/use to determine success. And with Alleria it also serves the point. She's clearly some sort of singularity that is ascending to something beyond an elf. While that may come at a cost in the long run (as like you said, even Sargeras has scars), what would her final state look like? And can she reach it without destroying herself in the process?
It's fascinating that void magic manifests in so many different ways. Compared to the flesh monstrosities we know, VEs are doing pretty well for themselves and could represent the link between what Alleria was and what she can become.

I think that Alleria would risk blowing herself up if she tried to absorb an Old God or, dare I say, a Void Lord. So far she has absorbed Nhal'athoth, a Void Demi-god, and then L'ura, a Void Naaru who could also be considered a Demi-god. But I wouldn't call them actual deities.

If you want an example of a mortal with the power of a God, look at Tyrande Whisperwind. The actual power of Elune flows through her veins, and many comment on how that power is very dangerous and could risk overwhelming Tyrande. Shandris praised Tyrande for her victory against the Mawsworn abductors, but also feared to what extent Elune's power could tear her apart. Remember that the fact that Tyrande is alive is, by itself, a miracle. The Night Warrior ritual is infamous because it typically kills anyone who attempts to perform it. So here's my answer: in 99% of the cases, Alleria would blow herself up if she tried to consume a Void Lord. But there's a 1% chance that she'd pull it off and contain that power within herself. It's a very small possibility, but it is possible. There was also only a 1% chance that Tyrande would survive the ritual of the Night Warrior.

I also think the amount of power you can contain is closely linked to your mental sanity and fortitude. If you are calm and composed, you are able to contain that power. Alleria trained for centuries to keep that mental fortitude, and Tyrande needs to maintain her composure, because one slip could be the end for her. Meanwhile, you have Deathwing, who was a Dragon Aspect (not a mortal, so you'd expect him to handle that cosmic power much better than Alleria and Tyrande), and yet he was utterly torn apart by N'Zoth's power. Why? Because he was clearly mentally unstable, he lacked clarity, he lacked discipline, he was completely unhinged:



This is Deathwing infused with the power of a simple Old God. Meanwhile Tyrande, who is infused with the power of ELUNE (who would eat Old Gods for breakfast), still looks like a normal elf, and is in perfect physical condition. At this point, it becomes clear that being a deity or having a bigger/more resistant body can only carry you so far.

[Aucald]

All of the Warcraft metacosm's primordial essences (Holy, Fel, Death, Shadow, Arcane, and Spirit) held in a lattice composed of alloys capable of containing them - a being like a Titan fueled by all of the cosmic power sources at once.

[Soon-TM]

All of the Warcraft metacosm's primordial essences (Holy, Fel, Death, Shadow, Arcane, and Spirit) held in a lattice composed of alloys capable of containing them - a being like a Titan fueled by all of the cosmic power sources at once.

Elune looks like she could fit several parts of that bill

[Shadowferal]

[Verdugo]

What material would be best suited for an ultimate being?

You cant get higher.

[darkoms]

It is clear that a mortal body can only contain so much cosmic power before exploding. There is one DH in the starting scenario whose body was literally incinerated because it could not contain the chaotic energies of Fel that it was injected with. Gul'dan's and Varian's bodies exploded because of the massive Fel energies they were injected with. Tyrande could be torn apart by the power of Elune with which she's infused.

This isn't really an issue related only to mortals either. Deathwing's body was torn apart by the corrupting energies of the Old Gods, and even Sargeras' own body was cracked and set ablaze by the Fel. Kil'jaeden's body literally blew up because of the overwhelming Fel energies within it.

And then we also have cases like Alleria Windrunner, who was a mortal, but was able to resist the massive power injection derived from getting blasted in the face by the essence of a Void Naaru. Therefore, it seems to me that anyone could potentially be torn apart by these powers, even higher beings like Deathwing and Sargeras. The key lies in how you wield said powers. Through rigorous training (both mental and physical) and discipline/willpower, even a mortal can contain massive amounts of energy within their flesh. Alleria absorbed within her own body the essence of a Void Demi-god and then of the Void Naaru L'ura, without blowing up. Meanwhile Deathwing, a great Dragon Aspect, was ravaged by N'Zoth's power (just look at the horrifying Madness of Deathwing).

These powers are ultimately like a sword. It doesn't matter how tough or muscular you are, if you can't wield a sword, you'll end up hurting yourself. So, even if Sargeras was a massive Titan, he ended up suffering damage due to the Fel energies he was corrupted with (flaming beard and hair, fiery cracks all over his body...). Meanwhile Alleria, a mortal, consumed 2 Void demi-gods without suffering any drastic physical alteration.

It's probably very difficult for you to hold out even a day and not praise Alleria.

[Razion]

Since Azeroth is made out to be one of the most powerful Titans possible, it would make sense that her watchers and caretakers would be good examples for what is potentially the most ideal kind of form. Stone very well may be the best because these kinds of beings are so magically resistant -- and that might matter the most in the grand cosmic scale of things. The logic of the stone guardians and watchers is what kind of faulted them by making them so easily manipulated. If Azeroth's guardians as fleshy beings are better due to their emotion and free will, perhaps stone watchers with more emotion and free will would be ideal candidates for a potentially ultimate being.

[Shadowferal]

What does an avatar of Azeroth look like?