Are there lots of grind after hit level 60 ?

[xenogear3]

For example, after you hit level 80 in WotLK, there is nothing to do except run heroic dungeons and Naxx for gear.

In Legion, it is the opposite.
We are forced to do zone Suramar.
It is very alt unfriendly.

[Toybox]

There's lots to do, but very little of it involves player power. Once you've unlocked all the Torghast floors, you'll be doing 2x Torghast runs a week for Soul Ash (legendary crafting), capping your Renown by doing dungeons/WQs, and doing the Maw daily for gem sockets if you want to go that far.

That's it, really. No logging in daily to clear the map of WQs, no endless AP grind through Islands, nothing. You'll get your Great Vault gear by doing dungeons/raids/PvP, or you can gear through reputation, world quests, etc.

Really looking forward to how laid back Shadowlands looks from a raiding POV.

[ReVnX]

and doing the Maw daily for gem sockets if you want to go that far.

And conduit ranks and permanent upgrades

[Redzonetode]

Suramar was great. I don't recall it being forced for alts, though. Maybe just up until you unlocked world quests.

[AidanJLowe]

From my experience of beta even though everything is available the way it all works is very spaced out so each week you'll have biteable chunks of content to consume while doing whatever you like. Unlike Legion you can even stop doing Torghast on one character when you obtain the best legendary for that class/spec, all ledgendaries are targetable rather than random.

With the level squish and chromie time along with how lenient the systems are at max level you'll be spending time alt logging quite a bit if you spend a lot of hours a week playing as honestly there isn't much to do at max level once you're done for the week except the optional M0, M+ spam in the first few weeks. 2 renown per week (all the way up to 40), Torghast runs which probably take ~25-50 mins to clear all 6 floors dependent on class/spec and if you're about killing everything or just getting to the end quickly.

Obviously you can unlock things in your covenant like portal systems etc but that is entirely optional and isn't going to be something you need to hard focus on.

With flying no longer requiring reputation you don't even need to do WQs for specific reps anymore.

I'd say they'd made the right approach to entice an entirely new pool of players in, they've learned from BfA for sure and listened. From my personal pov I was all about just focusing on one main char and spending extra time playing other games during BfA rather than maintaining a pool of characters doing the same content so this expansion if I decide to play it on retail it'll be very casual which I love.

[shuubu]

From my experience of beta even though everything is available the way it all works is very spaced out so each week you'll have biteable chunks of content to consume while doing whatever you like. Unlike Legion you can even stop doing Torghast on one character when you obtain the best legendary for that class/spec, all ledgendaries are targetable rather than random.

With the level squish and chromie time along with how lenient the systems are at max level you'll be spending time alt logging quite a bit if you spend a lot of hours a week playing as honestly there isn't much to do at max level once you're done for the week except the optional M0, M+ spam in the first few weeks. 2 renown per week (all the way up to 40), Torghast runs which probably take ~25-50 mins to clear all 6 floors dependent on class/spec and if you're about killing everything or just getting to the end quickly.

Obviously you can unlock things in your covenant like portal systems etc but that is entirely optional and isn't going to be something you need to hard focus on.

With flying no longer requiring reputation you don't even need to do WQs for specific reps anymore.

I'd say they'd made the right approach to entice an entirely new pool of players in, they've learned from BfA for sure and listened. From my personal pov I was all about just focusing on one main char and spending extra time playing other games during BfA rather than maintaining a pool of characters doing the same content so this expansion if I decide to play it on retail it'll be very casual which I love.

The other side of the coin here is that they are removing alternative casual friendly gearing methods like warfronts and visions. Now you have to do m+ and/or raid or you hit a wall.

[Tinary]

The other side of the coin here is that they are removing alternative casual friendly gearing methods like warfronts and visions. Now you have to do m+ and/or raid or you hit a wall.

Well, you can gear enough for the content you do as casual? Why would you need high (highest) ilvl gear if you do not take part in m+ or raiding?

[T-34]

The other side of the coin here is that they are removing alternative casual friendly gearing methods like warfronts and visions. Now you have to do m+ and/or raid or you hit a wall.

Well visions required a minimum of skill to do. The more masks you used the harder they got. So here you could argue that the gear was earned, at least to some extent. And it was solo friendly.

Warfronts were just free welfare loot. Much worse than lfr that at least required that some people in the group were pressing their keys. In a warfront the majority could just go afk.

But your gear level should reflect your skill, so if you are unable to do the harder content in the game then your gear level should reflect that lack of skill.

[Gestopft]

-dungeons/raid
-Maw
-Torghast
-dailies/covenant quests

A fair bit to do, at least at the beginning, but not overwhelming I think since they (mostly) have weekly max rewards.

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Suramar was great. I don't recall it being forced for alts, though. Maybe just up until you unlocked world quests.

Yeah this. Although tbh, I mostly didn't even bother unlocking the WQs for most of my alts.

[PenguinChan]

Well, you can gear enough for the content you do as casual? Why would you need high (highest) ilvl gear if you do not take part in m+ or raiding?

And why does it matter if they do get similar ilvl gear overtime? Devil's advocate, because this is PVE where your contention is an NPC not other players.

But also Blizzard will add more to do by 9.2 for sure - unless they like people unsubscribing immediately like they did in WoD / MoP / Cata days.

[Sharpeh32]

And why does it matter if they do get similar ilvl gear overtime? Devil's advocate, because this is PVE where your contention is an NPC not other players.

But also Blizzard will add more to do by 9.2 for sure - unless they like people unsubscribing immediately like they did in WoD / MoP / Cata days.

I'd rather WoD, MoP days than BFA days that's for sure.

[razorpax]

And conduit ranks and permanent upgrades

Kinda but not really

The conduit ranks are random based on your lowest so I might never try for the roll conduit on my monk so in order to catch up to my rank 4s I’d waste 2k Stygia and then 500 for a random rank 5 instead of using that 2.5k for my gem socket on my mythic BiS gear

The permanent upgrades for the maw....yes I agree fuck you valkyr

[shuubu]

Well visions required a minimum of skill to do. The more masks you used the harder they got. So here you could argue that the gear was earned, at least to some extent. And it was solo friendly.

Warfronts were just free welfare loot. Much worse than lfr that at least required that some people in the group were pressing their keys. In a warfront the majority could just go afk.

But your gear level should reflect your skill, so if you are unable to do the harder content in the game then your gear level should reflect that lack of skill.

Problem is, your gear level reflects the anount of time you can commit. I was talking about casual as in time Limited. 5 mask was very casual friendly way to get gear. Quite possibly the most casual way this game has seen so far. I can't commit to any raiding time tables as a working family man. I am however more than skilled enough for+15's, but one shot at an item per week is just meh.

[ReVnX]

Kinda but not really

The conduit ranks are random based on your lowest so I might never try for the roll conduit on my monk so in order to catch up to my rank 4s I’d waste 2k Stygia and then 500 for a random rank 5 instead of using that 2.5k for my gem socket on my mythic BiS gear

The permanent upgrades for the maw....yes I agree fuck you valkyr

Well some people will feel compelled to roll the dice until all their conduits are max rank.

And I'm one of those insane people

[schwarzkopf]

Just as in BfA - there is no required grind at max level.

However - there are many things you can grind if you like that sort of thing.

[razorpax]

Well some people will feel compelled to roll the dice until all their conduits are max rank.

And I'm one of those insane people

So here’s my question for you

Will you do this early or wait until a later patch?

- - - Updated - - -

Just as in BfA - there is no required grind at max level.

However - there are many things you can grind if you like that sort of thing.

Eh BfA had AP that was required

You had to get it to a certain level so your gear worked and then it slowly lost meaning but was replaced with essences

Then those lost meaning and it became the cloak which held meaning until the prepatch

[schwarzkopf]

Eh BfA had AP that was required

Sure, but there was no grind required to get it - that was my point.

The same thing will be in SL, there will be stuff you can choose to grind - but there is no need for grind.

[razorpax]

And why does it matter if they do get similar ilvl gear overtime? Devil's advocate, because this is PVE where your contention is an NPC not other players.

But also Blizzard will add more to do by 9.2 for sure - unless they like people unsubscribing immediately like they did in WoD / MoP / Cata days.

Because eventually players will get so strong from the minimal content that in order to keep the progression feeling meaningful we get a power jump again and then a squish the next expansion

The increase in gear also trivializes content for the players so they have something like say 445ilvl right which makes even the tough world content trivial while also making the majority of players hit the same roadblock but now the game will guide them to content they aren’t prepared for and it can lead to them having a bad time

- - - Updated - - -

Sure, but there was no grind required to get it - that was my point.

The same thing will be in SL, there will be stuff you can choose to grind - but there is no need for grind.

The AP was the grind

[schwarzkopf]

The AP was the grind

If you chose that path... but it was a choice. For me - I just did content and AP just turned up as designed.

That is - the fact is - no grind was required in BfA, as will be the case in SL.

[salate]

There's lots to do, but very little of it involves player power. Once you've unlocked all the Torghast floors, you'll be doing 2x Torghast runs a week for Soul Ash (legendary crafting), capping your Renown by doing dungeons/WQs, and doing the Maw daily for gem sockets if you want to go that far.

That's it, really. No logging in daily to clear the map of WQs, no endless AP grind through Islands, nothing. You'll get your Great Vault gear by doing dungeons/raids/PvP, or you can gear through reputation, world quests, etc.

Really looking forward to how laid back Shadowlands looks from a raiding POV.

I really tried to avoid any spoiler/gameplayspoiler to SL, but what you said makes me wait SL even more, lol
Thanks for reply!