Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Granyala]

Sure, ignore science, ignore common decency. Then boast about it online. That's the ticket.

Sure interpret random crap into a sentence, then boast about it online and make an arse of yourself. That's the ticket.

There is a difference between respecting a thing and dealing with it in a scientific manner vs. fearing it.

There is only so much we can do, ultimately life must go on. Even a vaccine will not provide 100% safety.
A lot of jobs don't have the luxury of staying at home because "C19 is scary".

- - - Updated - - -

shipping from usa to europe? that's not going to be cheap to ship from usa to europe...

Depends on the price and weight really. If the parcel is > 20ish Euro you will have to pay VAT (around 20% of it's price).
If it's heavy, obviously transport will cost more.

Most annoying thing is the shipping time.
Ordering from the US is cumbersome, if you live in the EU, it's cheaper and easier to buy/order locally.

[Shadowferal]

What curfew? Massive crowd in Huntington Beach, CA protesting the statewide covid curfew that went into effect less than an hour ago. Live report coming up at

America's stupidity will make sure that COVID lasts longer and is more deadlier than it should ever have been.

Yeah..America's stupidity...
Berlin police forcefully disperse protest over virus rules

[Rustedsaint]

What curfew? Massive crowd in Huntington Beach, CA protesting the statewide covid curfew that went into effect less than an hour ago. Live report coming up at

America's stupidity will make sure that COVID lasts longer and is more deadlier than it should ever have been.

There been more then afew protests over here in Canada too

[Granyala]

Yeah..America's stupidity...
Berlin police forcefully disperse protest over virus rules

While I can understand their concerns and don't like the law that was passed myself, It's utterly idiotic to disregard the hygiene rules when dealing with large gatherings in a time when we have high case and fatality numbers (numbers are similar to what we had in March, if you account for the increased testing volume.

Me thinks, that these protesters would achieve more if they adhered to the rules and police wasn't forced to disperse them.

[Shadowferal]

How would they pretend to be persecuted then?

By getting shot by the police.

[formerShandalay]

By getting shot by the police.

That is quite hard in Germany. If a police officer uses their gun, no matter if anyone gets killed or injured, there is an investigation into the situation. Always, routinely, just because it happened (even if it's on a camera that shows it was necessary). No one wants that just because they were angry.
That is not to say that nothing bad ever happens involving the police, but it usually doesn't involve the use of a gun.

[PhaelixWW]

There is a difference between respecting a thing and dealing with it in a scientific manner vs. fearing it.

There is only so much we can do, ultimately life must go on. Even a vaccine will not provide 100% safety.
A lot of jobs don't have the luxury of staying at home because "C19 is scary".

Had your post said "I'll continue to follow all the safety guidelines, however." then you might have a point, and I wouldn't have responded.

But instead, you said: "Not a damn thing I get to say about it anyway."

That's objectively false. You absolutely have a say in whether or not you get infected, as well as whether or not you pass it on to the people you admittedly state that you're around every day. You can't guarantee that you won't get it, of course, but you "have a say" as long as you continue to follow those guidelines.

Anything less is just a danger to everyone else with whom you come into contact.

Or, if you're going to claim that what you said is not actually what you meant, then you need to work on your messaging.

[Katchii]

That we should focus on physical distancing (and look for other alternatives), and don't rely on masks.

So, you're advocating for NOT wearing masks? Even though both the CDC and WHO still recommend wearing them?

Many, including the CDC, don't like that economic impact, and thus pick not so clear evidence (masks mandates normally coincide with other measures, lab studies are not always reliable) favoring masks. CDC in part recommend masks for economic reasons and claim that:

Are we seeing evidence that it is working at the moment?

So, CDC is recommending more universal masking because it could prevent the need for a lockdown, and you want to move away from masks?

And no, we're not seeing evidence it's working at the moment because there are still many people who are ignoring the mandates....

The recommendations are not working because people are not following them.

That is not a reason to ignore them.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah..America's stupidity...
Berlin police forcefully disperse protest over virus rules

That doesn't disprove America's stupidity, it just shows there are other stupid people out there too.

- - - Updated - - -

the cheap ones don't have the ce marking that the more expensives ones have so i don't trust them because they don't meet the safety standards...

To clarify, there's just no PROOF they meet the safety standards.

A product has to go through a pretty hefty review and approval process to get a CE mark. That doesn't mean the ones that don't have it aren't as good, they just haven't been through that process.

It's the same thing as a diamond vs a certified diamond. You can have two identical diamonds, but the certified one costs more because it went through the certification process and has documented evidence of it's inspection, etc...

[Forogil]

So, you're advocating for NOT wearing masks?

I'm saying that it's the wrong question.

What part of "That we should focus on physical distancing (and look for other alternatives), and don't rely on masks." was unclear?

So, CDC is recommending more universal masking because it could prevent the need for a lockdown,

And it doesn't seem to be working. 75% of Californians say they use mask, still lockdown; in Italy >80% said they use mask, still lockdown.

- - - Updated - - -

the cheap ones don't have the ce marking that the more expensives ones have so i don't trust them because they don't meet the safety standards...

The CE-marking is specific to Europe and in itself it only indicates that they follow other standards, so check which ones.

Commonly that is EN14683. (with Type I (95% effective) and II (98% effective) and an extra R for fluid resistance which seems a bit redundant.) Unfortunately the percentage numbers are for bacteria, not virus.
It could also be EN 149 - in that case check that it is FFP2 (94% but also for smaller particles) or FFP3; and that it actually filters the air you breathe out.

Unmarked masks are likely less efficient and likely correspond to the cloth fabrics and masks WHO tested - that had an efficiency between 0.7% and 60%. (But percentages are not that relevant as we don't know which particles are most relevant to filter out.)

[Edge-]

What curfew? Massive crowd in Huntington Beach, CA protesting the statewide covid curfew that went into effect less than an hour ago. Live report coming up at

America's stupidity will make sure that COVID lasts longer and is more deadlier than it should ever have been.

At this point I think the only hope for my country is reverse psychology. Tell people that Democrats WANT everyone to go out and go to bars and get haircuts and watch people stay at home instead.

[Katchii]

I'm saying that it's the wrong question.

What part of "That we should focus on physical distancing (and look for other alternatives), and don't rely on masks." was unclear?

When it comes to JUST masks, it's not the wrong question. Bottom line is we should be wearing them.

Should we be doing OTHER things on top of masks? Absolutely, masks obviously don't solve everything. But they never did, the guidelines were never JUST about wearing a mask, the guidelines were always about social distancing, hygiene, etc... in addition to wearing masks.

And it doesn't seem to be working. 75% of Californians say they use mask, still lockdown; in Italy >80% said they use mask, still lockdown.

If it's the same 75% of people I see wearing their masks below their nose, or taking them off to talk on the phone, using them as a chin strap, or not wearing them at all when they're in areas with people they know....I think I know why it's not working.

[Acidbaron]

At this point I think the only hope for my country is reverse psychology. Tell people that Democrats WANT everyone to go out and go to bars and get haircuts and watch people stay at home instead.

Don't do that, it will just acknowledge their lies and believe they were right all along. There's nothing you can do against those people sadly.



As for Belgium, looks like the lockdown is going to be extended over the holidays next Friday we will know more. But both the health minister and prime minister already said to don't hope on it and they are worried about the holiday period, the absurdity of it all is right across the border things are being eased again.

The good news however is the first vaccines will arrive in December while the bulk will arrive next year around March, they will also be free whoever wants them and won't be forced but that doesn't matter as according to polls around 75 to 80% is looking to get vaccinated, thank god the misinformation around vaccines hasn't taken such a large hold here as it did elsewhere.

[Zan15]

shipping from usa to europe? that's not going to be cheap to ship from usa to europe...

where? there is none here...

gimee the country i bet i can find you some.

i know my sister in law is stationed in Germany and she says just about every medical facility/organization is giving away mask for free.

[Zan15]

sweden... no facility or organization giving masks away...

whelp you got me there. had to be that country that just figured "fuck it" and just let people die.....

[Pohut]

Wearing a mask is helping to stop the spread...

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6947e2.htm

But it really doesn't though:

https://theconversation.com/face-mas...now-why-147912

[Edge-]

But it really doesn't though:

https://theconversation.com/face-mas...now-why-147912

However, evidence shows mask-wearing policies seem to have had much less impact on the community spread of COVID-19.

It does, the problem is that people aren't always going to follow said policies. Which is largely what the article is about.

People who are more concerned often adhere to several protective behaviours — they are likely to avoid crowds and socially distance as well as wearing masks.

Weird, people most likely to follow a single piece of medical advice would follow others, and be more safe than those that ignore them all.

The most rigorous, but difficult, way to evaluate the effectiveness of masks is to take a large group of people and ask some to wear masks and others not to, in a so-called controlled trial. We found nine such trials have been carried out for influenza-like illness. Surprisingly, when combined, these trials found only a 1% reduction in influenza-like illness among mask-wearers compared with non-mask-wearers, and a 9% reduction in laboratory-confirmed influenza. These small reductions are not statistically significant, and are most likely due to chance.

So the whole argument is essentially, "In a similar disease, people not following medical guidance undercut the effectiveness of medical guidance!"

This is, "Well, people not following traffic laws are causing more accidents so maybe we do away with all traffic laws." levels of thinking.

[PhaelixWW]

But it really doesn't though:

https://theconversation.com/face-mas...now-why-147912

Wearing a mask helps slow the spread. Full stop. And this is coming from someone who has spent time ITT arguing against the actual effectiveness of the majority of the crap masks in use today.

Masks do help. They are not, however, more effective at slowing the spread than proper distancing precautions, which is the point that I believe Forogil was attempting to make earlier, and is one I've made many times over.

Those two things are also not mutually exclusive, which a whole heck of a lot of you seem to be ignoring in this silly "debate".

So the solution cannot be "wear masks and don't worry about anything else". But masks are not terribly burdensome to wear, and we cannot always stay distant enough from the people around us.

So just wear the damned masks.

[Granyala]

Had your post said "I'll continue to follow all the safety guidelines, however." then you might have a point, and I wouldn't have responded.

I didn't say that because I figured that'd be a given.

That's objectively false. You absolutely have a say in whether or not you get infected,

No, I don't. That was my whole point. I have to ride the bus 2x a day, I have to have contact with people.
No choice in that because it's my job. The only objectively safe way would be to isolate myself, which is not feasible.

Your wording around "guarantee" and "chances" is just that: word-poking. Ultimately I do not get a say whether I will catch this bug or not.
Most likely I will, given that I still have around ~50 years to live.

- - - Updated - - -

So the solution cannot be "wear masks and don't worry about anything else". But masks are not terribly burdensome to wear, and we cannot always stay distant enough from the people around us.

Absolutely right.
Unfortunately, in practice this is basically what happens. People feel "safe" when wearing them and continue as usual.

I can see no difference in people's behavior except that they wear a piece of cloth in front of their snouts. *shrug*

Only exception would be hardware barriers and markings in shops. Most people obey these.

[Slirith]

Need to send out a Government paper that asks "Do you oppose the curfew/mask mandates?" if you answer yes, you get fined/increased taxes. Sorry, you can protest all you want but sometimes massive stupidity needs to be punished.

[Granyala]

Need to send out a Government paper that asks "Do you oppose the curfew/mask mandates?" if you answer yes, you get fined/increased taxes. Sorry, you can protest all you want but sometimes massive stupidity needs to be punished.

We already have fines etc in place. People have a right to be critical and protest, that's why we call it a "Democracy".
As long as they adhere to hygiene standards, there is no problem with voicing a differing opinion.