1. #20001
    One-third of parents in new poll say holiday gatherings worth COVID-19 risk

    A third of parents surveyed in a new poll say it is important that they see their children in person during the Thanksgiving holiday this year, despite warnings from public health officials to forgo festivities due to the coronavirus pandemic.

    One-third of parents indicated the benefits of gathering with family at Thanksgiving are worth the risk of spreading or getting COVID-19, according to the poll from C.S. Mott Children's Hospital National Poll on Children's Health.

  2. #20002
    Woo, just got a positive test. Wife got positive test on sunday, someone at her workplace got sick. Our symptoms - very mild joint pain, occasional dry cough and low energy.

    God damn, my workplace gives out free 2 week leave with 100% pay, and tonight Shadowlands launches. Like, god damn, the timing of covid-19 is perfect. I'm so happy. 2020 was such a great year for me personally, and now this to top it off.

    10/10.

    I would kiss you all on the cheek if I wasn't an infectious sob.
    My nickname is "LDEV", not "idev". (both font clarification and ez bait)

    yall im smh @ ur simplified english

  3. #20003
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Thanksgiving and Christmas will be no different.
    I'm getting together with my parents and that's it. I live alone, they're all retired. Unless one of us caught it at the grocery store, should be okay. I have done nothing outside my house but go to the grocery store since march.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  4. #20004
    There's another vaccine showing promise which is cheaper to produce than the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines and does not need to stored at extremely cold temperatures.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55040635

    Hopefully 2021 will see the back the of shitty disease.

  5. #20005
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Not sure I consider -20C extremely cold.
    Think they're separating the comments. Cheaper than pfizer and moderna, can be stored at normal fridge temps. Being able to store them above/near freezing means they're a lot easier to store in impoverished/inaccessible areas. -20c for moderna isn't really outside of storage temps of medical coolers like -70c is for the pfizer one, but they are out of the range of regular freezers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  6. #20006
    Quote Originally Posted by ldev View Post
    Woo, just got a positive test. Wife got positive test on sunday, someone at her workplace got sick. Our symptoms - very mild joint pain, occasional dry cough and low energy.

    God damn, my workplace gives out free 2 week leave with 100% pay, and tonight Shadowlands launches. Like, god damn, the timing of covid-19 is perfect. I'm so happy. 2020 was such a great year for me personally, and now this to top it off.

    10/10.

    I would kiss you all on the cheek if I wasn't an infectious sob.
    I sincerely hope that those are the worst of the symptoms, both short and long term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Not sure I consider -20C extremely cold.
    For storage conditions, that's pretty cold.

    Most in-home freezers don't, or can't, even go this low.

  7. #20007
    It's not the -70c that Pfizer's vaccine needs to be stored...a plus.

  8. #20008
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    It’s 2 degrees lower than standard operating temperature for a freezer... they can most assuredly go colder.
    No they really can't.

    Most in-home freezers have standard settings with the coldest being -18 C (0 F). If there's no setting below that, they can't go lower than that. At least not out of the box. Their hardware might be capable, but without some kind of upgrade or retrofit, they're not going lower than -18 C.

    That's the point of the statement in the story. -18 C is not some unattainable thing, it just requires specialized equipment. The fact that there might be another vaccine that won't require specialized equipment for storage would be a big deal.

  9. #20009
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Not sure I consider -20C extremely cold.
    That's why I wrote "...and does not need to stored at extremely cold temperatures."

    Unlike the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, the Oxford/AZ can be stored in normal (industrial) freezers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    The big downside is the potentially low efficacy compared to the others.
    Yes, but the efficacy could be as high as 90% when administering a half dose for the first injection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    No they really can't.

    Most in-home freezers have standard settings with the coldest being -18 C (0 F). If there's no setting below that, they can't go lower than that. At least not out of the box. Their hardware might be capable, but without some kind of upgrade or retrofit, they're not going lower than -18 C.

    That's the point of the statement in the story. -18 C is not some unattainable thing, it just requires specialized equipment. The fact that there might be another vaccine that won't require specialized equipment for storage would be a big deal.
    A standard catering freezer will be able to reach -18C and lower without a problem. However the main advantage is that this vaccine - assuming it passes the regulators - can be transported without the need for extremely specialised equipment.
    Last edited by Pann; 2020-11-23 at 03:59 PM.

  10. #20010
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I sincerely hope that those are the worst of the symptoms, both short and long term.
    Oh please, 62 year old coworker got covid last month - same shit - dry cough, a bit higher than average temperature, and felt tired, fully recovered now, duh. I get these symptoms almost every year from common cold. Last month wife had way worse complications from common cold, and yea, she did the free covid test - came back negative.

    40% asymptomatic, every day 2000 new infections in my country, and like 8 dead. 8. 8. Without covid, 7 of those 8 would have died anyways and that 1 would have died the next day lol. This is a very weak pathetic virus, literally no sane smart person is afraid of covid for like the last 7 months. Only thing it has going for it - spreads like wildfire. Your hopes do nothing, statistics and facts say covid is just no spooky.

    So yea, there's covidiots that go "I can't breathe/government is controlling us via masks/covid is not real" and there's coviditios that go "nooooo it's the black plague, THOUSANDS HAVE DIED!!!".

    I'm just happy with my free fully paid vacation. Travel ban, no more shaking hands, loads of personal space in shopping malls is also a big plus.
    Last edited by ldev; 2020-11-23 at 04:04 PM.
    My nickname is "LDEV", not "idev". (both font clarification and ez bait)

    yall im smh @ ur simplified english

  11. #20011
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    A standard catering freezer will be able to reach -18C and lower without a problem.
    Wasn't ever intending to insinuate that reaching those lower temperatures is some kind of insurmountable obstacle. Only that a standard in-home refrigerator/freezer combo, which are commonly used for things like this, cannot reach those temperatures.

    But while you call it a "standard" catering freezer, it's still a piece of specialized equipment that's designed specifically to reach those lower temperatures. It's not something you would purchase unless you needed to. The kind of places that don't already HAVE one of those pieces of equipment, are apparently in a situation where getting one would be difficult.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    It’s -20C, and it only requires a thermostat that let’s you set it to or below that temperature.
    Again, never meant to insinuate that's it's something overly complicated or insurmountable, just that a standard fridge/freezer combo doesn't have that functionality out of the box. Most health care facilities have this capability. The talking point in the article is specifically about places around the world that don't already have these kinds of things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ldev View Post
    Oh please, 62 year old coworker got covid last month - same shit - dry cough, a bit higher than average temperature, and felt tired, fully recovered now, duh. I get these symptoms almost every year from common cold. Last month wife had way worse complications from common cold, and yea, she did the free covid test - came back negative.

    40% asymptomatic, every day 2000 new infections in my country, and like 8 dead. 8. 8. Without covid, 7 of those 8 would have died anyways and that 1 would have died the next day lol. This is a very weak pathetic virus, literally no sane smart person is afraid of covid for like the last 7 months. Only thing it has going for it - spreads like wildfire. Your hopes do nothing, statistics and facts say covid is just no spooky.

    So yea, there's covidiots that go "I can't breathe/government is controlling us via masks/covid is not real" and there's coviditios that go "nooooo it's the black plague, THOUSANDS HAVE DIED!!!".

    I'm just happy with my free fully paid vacation. Travel ban, no more shaking hands, loads of personal space in shopping malls is also a big plus.
    As I said, I hope it stays that way. I personally know people that have died from it and have gotten it recovered from it and aren't the same now than they were before.

    Just because those harsher symptoms seem to occur less frequently doesn't mean they don't exist.

  12. #20012
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post

    As I said, I hope it stays that way. I personally know people that have died from it and have gotten it recovered from it and aren't the same now than they were before.

    Just because those harsher symptoms seem to occur less frequently doesn't mean they don't exist.
    Of course harsh symptoms exist, it's just that one has to be special to get special complications. I'm just a simple ordinary common man, so my complications are also common ones - aka, barely any. And I'm offended that you think I'm special and need thoughts and prayers for covid. :P See you in the shadowlands. o7
    My nickname is "LDEV", not "idev". (both font clarification and ez bait)

    yall im smh @ ur simplified english

  13. #20013
    Quote Originally Posted by ldev View Post
    Of course harsh symptoms exist, it's just that one has to be special to get special complications. I'm just a simple ordinary common man, so my complications are also common ones - aka, barely any. And I'm offended that you think I'm special and need thoughts and prayers for covid. :P See you in the shadowlands. o7
    That's actually not how it works either. That's how it works in most cases, yes, but not 100% of the time. One of the people I know that died from it was a "simple ordinary common man" who was in good health, worked out regularly, not on any medications, didn't have any pre-existing conditions and was only 53 at the time.

    That's one of the reasons health care experts are still treating this thing so seriously, because it doesn't really adhere to the "rules."

    If this were just like the flu, in all of those categories, the world wouldn't be like this...they'd treat it like the flu and everything would be relatively normal otherwise, not lockdowns and whatnot.

  14. #20014
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Wasn't ever intending to insinuate that reaching those lower temperatures is some kind of insurmountable obstacle. Only that a standard in-home refrigerator/freezer combo, which are commonly used for things like this, cannot reach those temperatures.

    But while you call it a "standard" catering freezer, it's still a piece of specialized equipment that's designed specifically to reach those lower temperatures. It's not something you would purchase unless you needed to. The kind of places that don't already HAVE one of those pieces of equipment, are apparently in a situation where getting one would be difficult.
    I would be surprised if a modern home freezer could not reach -20c or lower (a quick look a random Samsung Freezer says that it can go to -23C) - I suspect that home freezers do not operate at these lower temperatures as -18C is perfectly safe for food storage, and lower temperatures require more power increasing operating costs and the strain on components.

    However none of this is particularly relevant as none of the vaccines are likely to be stored in a regular home freezer and doctors surgeries, health centres, hospitals, etc will already have refrigerating equipment that can safely store the Moderna and Oxford vaccines.

  15. #20015
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    It could certainly benefit a lot of people. And a standard freezer needs to be able to freeze food at or below -18C for it to be safe. That means almost all of them can go down about 5 degrees from there to allow for environmental and usage factors.
    The hardware is surely capable, I'm not debating that. Just saying that they aren't set-up to go lower out of the box. Having to retrofit it, even with simple stuff.

    It's like having a Firestick/Apple TV type thing but losing the remote (because the box itself doesn't have buttons on it). It's obviously capable of changing channels/apps, and inputs and whatever but without the remote, or "A" remote programmed to work with it, it just can't do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I would be surprised if a modern home freezer could not reach -20c or lower (a quick look a random Samsung Freezer says that it can go to -23C) - I suspect that home freezers do not operate at these lower temperatures as -18C is perfectly safe for food storage, and lower temperatures require more power increasing operating costs and the strain on components.

    However none of this is particularly relevant as none of the vaccines are likely to be stored in a regular home freezer and doctors surgeries, health centres, hospitals, etc will already have refrigerating equipment that can safely store the Moderna and Oxford vaccines.
    Not in third world countries that barely have health care at all. The talking point is not about developed countries.

  16. #20016
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Not in third world countries that barely have health care at all. The talking point is not about developed countries.
    The Oxford and Moderna (for a limited time) vaccines can stored at regular fridge temperatures.

    But the fact is that -20C is not a technical barrier at all and is something that can already be achieved by refrigerated trailers. And quite honestly a few freezers is a minor issue when it comes to the logistics of vaccinating the world's population.

  17. #20017
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    The Oxford and Moderna (for a limited time) vaccines can stored at regular fridge temperatures.
    That's exactly why it's a notable "feature" of them. Because they don't require storage at the much lower temperatures.

    But the fact is that -20C is not a technical barrier at all and is something that can already be achieved by refrigerated trailers. And quite honestly a few freezers is a minor issue when it comes to the logistics of vaccinating the world's population.
    But it IS a logistics issue, however minor. That's why the ability of the Oxford and Moderna vaccines to be stored at normal fridge temperatures was noteworthy in the first place.

    And you're SIGNIFICANTLY, downplaying the impact. You say "a few," when the size and scope of the areas that don't have access to basic stuff like freezers means it would be MUCH more than "a few."

    I'm not trying to blow it out of proportion here, just saying that it's a real thing that needs to be considered when discussing the logistics of providing access to the vaccine around the world; an issue that the Oxford and Moderna vaccines don't need to consider at all.

  18. #20018
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    They fucking are. They have to be since some areas require more cooling than others to achieve the same results. As such they can go well bellow the required -18C.
    Long story short, I was wrong. I wasn't reading the right things. They absolutely are capable of reach -20 C (many can go down to -22).

  19. #20019
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    That's exactly why it's a notable "feature" of them. Because they don't require storage at the much lower temperatures.



    But it IS a logistics issue, however minor. That's why the ability of the Oxford and Moderna vaccines to be stored at normal fridge temperatures was noteworthy in the first place.

    And you're SIGNIFICANTLY, downplaying the impact. You say "a few," when the size and scope of the areas that don't have access to basic stuff like freezers means it would be MUCH more than "a few."

    I'm not trying to blow it out of proportion here, just saying that it's a real thing that needs to be considered when discussing the logistics of providing access to the vaccine around the world; an issue that the Oxford and Moderna vaccines don't need to consider at all.
    I am not downplaying anything but the fact is refrigeration is not a new technology and we already use equipment that is capable of safely storing these vaccines to transport our food in bulk all across the world.

  20. #20020
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I am not downplaying anything but the fact is refrigeration is not a new technology and we already use equipment that is capable of safely storing these vaccines to transport our food in bulk all across the world.
    I'm not debating it's a new technology, just saying in the parts of the world where they barely have running water and are affected by COVID-19, requiring those kinds of storage conditions for a vaccine would make things difficult for them. That's the talking point in the article.

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