If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[threads]

it will be dark ranger or nothing. sylvanas is too popular and edgy classes are pretty successful.

[Teriz]

You created the way in which this ability would appear in WoW, considering it does not exist in the game. Any and all mechanics and functionality you give to it are only your creation, not Blizzard's.

Uh no. In this discussion I'm just talking about planting the WC3 ability into WoW. No other class ability has mechanics like that.

You are blatantly lying. From the beginning, my arguments regarding the claim that "mechanical theme bring unique gameplay" have been about how themes do not bring "unique gameplay".

Okay fine, I'll agree with you that themes do not bring unique gameplay, and let's agree that if implemented the Tinker class would bring in unique gameplay and mechanics to the class lineup.

But not all shadow magic is blood magic. Also, Atonement is part of the Discipline specialization, but you still don't consider it a holy ability. Or even a shadow ability.

I would argue that Death Pact has all of the qualities of a Blood ability. Atonement honestly behaves like a Shadow ability despite it effecting Holy Magic.

Liches are not death knights. Try again. You are demanding to see necromancers actually using poison magic, so be honest here and answer your own argument: show me death knights using frost magic before the Wrath expansion.

So considering that this was the leader and creator of Death Knights;



We're going to assume that his creations wouldn't have any ice-based abilities/powers?

Also he's called the Lich King.

Doesn't change the fact that they overlap on the holy theme. Especially since you still accuse necromancers and death knights "overlapping" even if we grant necromancers a poison spec.

Except DKs can use nature-abilities, and poison is in that family of magic. They've even created oozes.

Even if I grant you that, why can't it be expanded upon?

Okay, but what would it really offer that isn't offered by Warlocks and DKs? You're essentially advocating for a set of DoT based spells that tick nature instead of Shadow or Frost.

In other words, you have nothing to back up that claim, because that quote likely does not exist. This is your modus-operandi, Teriz: you make lots of claims, but when backed against the wall to prove your claims, you get overly defensive, doing everything EXCEPT providing evidence for your claims.

You're free to not believe it, but again if you look at the Necromancer class in WoW right up to its snub in Shadowlands, it makes perfect sense.

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it will be dark ranger or nothing. sylvanas is too popular and edgy classes are pretty successful.

Blizzard would have to retcon their lore then, because Sylvanas is the only Dark Ranger with Banshee powers, and without those powers, she's just a standard Hunter/Ranger (like every other Dark Ranger in the game).

[Shadowferal]

Sylvanus is "popular" because Blizz made her that way. On its own, I think Illidan is hitting the high note on popularity...and I despise the writing that got him here in the first place.

[Triceron]

Maybe they add an extra spec to every class. If it's Dragon isles up next, an dragon based spec to every class.

Well that's just a variation on the Covenant system and borrowed power. It'd likely not be something permanent and class-defining if it only has relevance to Dragons and one expansion.

[Ielenia]

Uh no. In this discussion I'm just talking about planting the WC3 ability into WoW. No other class ability has mechanics like that.

And no class is ever going to have the mechanics of the Pocket Factory from Warcraft 3, considering its WC3 mechanics make it an overpowered ability since it creates a huge unpassable construct that blocks line of sight and needs to be destroyed.

Okay fine, I'll agree with you that themes do not bring unique gameplay, and let's agree that if implemented the Tinker class would bring in unique gameplay and mechanics to the class lineup.

Any new class introduced to the game would bring unique mechanics, regardless if it's the tinker, the bard, the runemaster or the necromancer. Because Blizzard is not going to make a new class that is a carbon-copy of existing classes' gameplay.

I would argue that Death Pact has all of the qualities of a Blood ability. Atonement honestly behaves like a Shadow ability despite it effecting Holy Magic.

And I've given evidence that death pact doesn't necessarily is a blood magic ability, just because it 'drains life'. Because I pointed out at two priests spells that do the exact same thing, and even have the word vampiric it their name... and are not blood magic.

So considering that this was the leader and creator of Death Knights;

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e4/19...9364e9cff9.jpg

We're going to assume that his creations wouldn't have any ice-based abilities/powers?

Fine. Show me the Lich King using frost magic before Wrath of the Lich King. Because, again, you're using here the exact same argument that I made for poison magic to necromancers. Actually, never mind. Because I've shown the necromancer's teacher using poison, and you still refuse to admit it as a connection. No, you have to show me the actual death knights using frost magic. Because that's what you're doing to me: demanding to see actual necromancers using poison.

Except DKs can use nature-abilities, and poison is in that family of magic. They've even created oozes.

No. Death knights don't have "nature abilities". You're putting lightning magic, earth magic, poison, fel magic and diseases all under the same umbrella to try to force a point. Death Knights are not nature magic users.

Okay, but what would it really offer that isn't offered by Warlocks and DKs? You're essentially advocating for a set of DoT based spells that tick nature instead of Shadow or Frost.

And that exact same question could be leveled toward your precious fan concept. To which I know you'll say 'pilot mechs' and whatever other things that all theme-based and nothing gameplay-based.

You're free to not believe it, but again if you look at the Necromancer class in WoW right up to its snub in Shadowlands, it makes perfect sense.

Read what "correlation does not imply causation" means. I can practically guarantee that your life would be all the richer for it. And your arguments, hopefully, less dishonest.

[TheRevenantHero]

I long for a class thread that doesn't involve Teriz derailing the entire fucking thread with his tinker headcanons.

[Teriz]

And no class is ever going to have the mechanics of the Pocket Factory from Warcraft 3, considering its WC3 mechanics make it an overpowered ability since it creates a huge unpassable construct that blocks line of sight and needs to be destroyed.

Yep, I knew we'd go from "every class could have this mechanic" to "this mechanic is too OP".

That train is never late.

And I've given evidence that death pact doesn't necessarily is a blood magic ability, just because it 'drains life'. Because I pointed out at two priests spells that do the exact same thing, and even have the word vampiric it their name... and are not blood magic.

Because Shadow Priests don't use blood magic, but Blood Death Knights do.

Fine. Show me the Lich King using frost magic before Wrath of the Lich King. Because, again, you're using here the exact same argument that I made for poison magic to necromancers. Actually, never mind. Because I've shown the necromancer's teacher using poison, and you still refuse to admit it as a connection. No, you have to show me the actual death knights using frost magic. Because that's what you're doing to me: demanding to see actual necromancers using poison.

You showed an alchemist using poison. No Necromancer in Scholomance uses poison.

No. Death knights don't have "nature abilities". You're putting lightning magic, earth magic, poison, fel magic and diseases all under the same umbrella to try to force a point. Death Knights are not nature magic users.

Death Knights have abilities that inflict Nature damage. Paladins have no abilities that inflict shadow damage. That's simply the facts.

And that exact same question could be leveled toward your precious fan concept. To which I know you'll say 'pilot mechs' and whatever other things that all theme-based and nothing gameplay-based.

Well we don't have to create an entirely unrelated spec to the Tinker class to avoid it clashing too heavily with existing classes.
That should tell you something....

Read what "correlation does not imply causation" means. I can practically guarantee that your life would be all the richer for it. And your arguments, hopefully, less dishonest.

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt....

[Ielenia]

Yep, I knew we'd go from "every class could have this mechanic" to "this mechanic is too OP".

That train is never late.

We didn't go "from there to there". I'm talking about your fan concept of the ability versus mine, as it showcases that gameplay and game mechanics are not exclusive to themes.

Because Shadow Priests don't use blood magic, but Blood Death Knights do.

So what? You claimed Blood Pact is a "blood" spell despite it only becoming so after the class was created. You're using retroactive continuity to make your point.

You showed an alchemist using poison. No Necromancer in Scholomance uses poison.

I'm waiting for you to show me a death knight actually using frost magic before Wrath. Come on, Teriz. Prove your argument isn't pure bollocks.

Death Knights have abilities that inflict Nature damage. Paladins have no abilities that inflict shadow damage. That's simply the facts.

No, that's you distorting facts. Death Knights are not nature magic users. Their diseases deal shadow or frost damage. You're equating a weapon strike ability to poison-based spells.

Well we don't have to create an entirely unrelated spec to the Tinker class to avoid it clashing too heavily with existing classes.
That should tell you something....

Neither do we have to do that for the necromancer, but we do it because it's fun.

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt....

And projection is something you indulge a lot, here. You made a statement of fact based on nothing but correlations.

[Teriz]

We didn't go "from there to there". I'm talking about your fan concept of the ability versus mine, as it showcases that gameplay and game mechanics are not exclusive to themes.

That's interesting because I was never talking about a fan version of Pocket Factory, I was talking about the actual ability created by Blizzard.

So what? You claimed Blood Pact is a "blood" spell despite it only becoming so after the class was created. You're using retroactive continuity to make your point.

Except the Death Knights had Vampiric weapons in WC3, and Death Pact is a vampiric ability. You're simply moving goal posts now.

I'm waiting for you to show me a death knight actually using frost magic before Wrath. Come on, Teriz. Prove your argument isn't pure bollocks.

I thought we already discussed this. The creator of the Death Knights is the Lich King. What abilities do Lichs tend to posses?

No, that's you distorting facts. Death Knights are not nature magic users. Their diseases deal shadow or frost damage. You're equating a weapon strike ability to poison-based spells.

I never said they were nature magic users. I said they have abilities that utilize nature damage. Paladins have no abilities that deal Shadow damage.

Neither do we have to do that for the necromancer, but we do it because it's fun.

Which is why every Necromancer concept contains lifted Death Knight abilities and even have the same spec configuration as the Death Knight class.

Tinkers take nothing from existing classes, which is why it's the preferred future class concept.

[Ielenia]

That's interesting because I was never talking about a fan version of Pocket Factory, I was talking about the actual ability created by Blizzard.

If you are talking about the 'pocket factory' ability in WoW, then yes, you are talking about a fan version of it. Because the ability does not exist in WoW.

Except the Death Knights had Vampiric weapons in WC3, and Death Pact is a vampiric ability. You're simply moving goal posts now.

Having a vampiric weapon is meaningless if you cannot demonstrate death knights actually using blood magic before the Wrath expansion. As for the Death Pact ability, where does it say it is a vampiric ability? And even if I granted you that it is a vampiric ability, in nothing it proves that it's blood magic, considering Shadow Priests have two vampiric abilities, that I believe you agreed are not blood magic?

I thought we already discussed this. The creator of the Death Knights is the Lich King. What abilities do Lichs tend to posses?

And we still discussing this because the fact that the Lich King has that name has nothing to do with frost magic. Again, show me the death knights using frost magic before Wrath. You absolutely love to make demands like that, telling people to "show an NPC doing X" when you're attacking their fan concept ideas, so how about you take a swallow of your own bitter medicine and prove your demands aren't just bogus. Come on, show us death knights pre-Wrath actually using frost magic.

I never said they were nature magic users. I said they have abilities that utilize nature damage. Paladins have no abilities that deal Shadow damage.

Four things objectively wrong there:
• First: They have one ability that deals nature damage.
• Second: You're equating a singular weapon strike ability to magic spells.
• Third: poison is not the same thing as diseases.
• Fourth: You're equating the two just because they deal "nature damage". That's the same thing as saying lightning and earth magic are the same because they deal 'nature damage'. You're equating lightning magic, earth magic, diseases and poison as "the same thing".

Which is why every Necromancer concept contains lifted Death Knight abilities and even have the same spec configuration as the Death Knight class.

There is not a single thing there that is true. Every word of it, complete lies, demonstrated over and over. You have shown to go to extreme lengths and grasp at every straw you can find. And the only necromancer concept that you've shown doesn't even look or feel like a death knight.

Tinkers take nothing from existing classes, which is why it's the preferred future class concept.

And neither does necromancers, considering my own example, and the one you linked earlier, who you "claim" to be a "carbon copy" of the death knight class.

[LemonDemonGirl]

I know it's probably been linked already, but I'd play the hell out of this if it ever became a thing

[Teriz]

If you are talking about the 'pocket factory' ability in WoW, then yes, you are talking about a fan version of it. Because the ability does not exist in WoW.

No, we’re talking about Pocket Factory in the context of a WoW Tinker class and the WC3 ability being moved into WoW.

Having a vampiric weapon is meaningless if you cannot demonstrate death knights actually using blood magic before the Wrath expansion. As for the Death Pact ability, where does it say it is a vampiric ability? And even if I granted you that it is a vampiric ability, in nothing it proves that it's blood magic, considering Shadow Priests have two vampiric abilities, that I believe you agreed are not blood magic?

You’re flipping between WoW and WC3. In WC3 there were no Spriests with Vampiric Embrace, that came with WoW. In WoW that ability was attached to a spec and a class that doesn’t use blood magic. Meanwhile, when Death Pact was put into WoW, it was placed in the DKs blood spec along with other blood-based spells and abilities. I’m not really seeing why you’re confused by this.

And we still discussing this because the fact that the Lich King has that name has nothing to do with frost magic. Again, show me the death knights using frost magic before Wrath. You absolutely love to make demands like that, telling people to "show an NPC doing X" when you're attacking their fan concept ideas, so how about you take a swallow of your own bitter medicine and prove your demands aren't just bogus. Come on, show us death knights pre-Wrath actually using frost magic.

The Lich King had obvious Frost-based abilities in WC3, and those abilities were shown again when LK Arthas used them in WotLK. I mean who do you think transformed Kelthuzad into Lich? Do you seriously believe a character who can literally create creatures with massive amounts of Frost power has none of his own?

Further, are you going to be so obtuse that you can’t believe that the Lich King wouldn’t give his own generals Frost powers?

Four things objectively wrong there:
• First: They have one ability that deals nature damage.

Two. The Gargoyle they summon also emits plague damage.

• Second: You're equating a singular weapon strike ability to magic spells.
• Third: poison is not the same thing as diseases.
• Fourth: You're equating the two just because they deal "nature damage". That's the same thing as saying lightning and earth magic are the same because they deal 'nature damage'. You're equating lightning magic, earth magic, diseases and poison as "the same thing".

I’m equating the two because it shows that there’s nothing the Necromancer can do that a DK can’t do.

There is not a single thing there that is true. Every word of it, complete lies, demonstrated over and over. You have shown to go to extreme lengths and grasp at every straw you can find. And the only necromancer concept that you've shown doesn't even look or feel like a death knight.

How can you “feel” it when you can’t even play it?

And neither does necromancers, considering my own example, and the one you linked earlier, who you "claim" to be a "carbon copy" of the death knight class.

Your Necromancer is a Diablo ripoff, and I’ve already shown how “Dread”, Undeath, and whatever the other spec was was merely a variation of Unholy, Blood, and Frost.

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I know it's probably been linked already, but I'd play the hell out of this if it ever became a thing

You can. Just roll a Death Knight.

[Ielenia]

No, we’re talking about Pocket Factory in the context of a WoW Tinker class and the WC3 ability being moved into WoW.

In other words: your fan concept. Because the ability does not exist in WoW. The moment you start talking about the ability inside WoW, you're no longer talking about the actual WC3 ability, but instead talking about your own fan concept of it.

You’re flipping between WoW and WC3. In WC3 there were no Spriests with Vampiric Embrace, that came with WoW. In WoW that ability was attached to a spec and a class that doesn’t use blood magic. Meanwhile, when Death Pact was put into WoW, it was placed in the DKs blood spec along with other blood-based spells and abilities. I’m not really seeing why you’re confused by this.

Because your criteria for it to be 'blood' are through "retroactive continuity". It wasn't a blood spell back then, it didn't have blood-like graphics. It became a 'blood spec' spell after the fact. And like I said before: even if I granted you that Death Pact is a blood spell, you still have the issue of absolutely no death knight ever using frost magic before the Wrath expansion.

The Lich King had obvious Frost-based abilities in WC3,

No, he did not. The Lich King, in fact, did not have any powers shown in Warcraft 3, as far as I recall. Because the "Lich King" was nothing but a helm and armor encased in ice, and Frostmourne.

and those abilities were shown again when LK Arthas used them in WotLK.

Irrelevant because I'm asking for death knights using frost before the playable class was implemented.

I mean who do you think transformed Kelthuzad into Lich?

An unholy-corrupted Sunwell.

Further, are you going to be so obtuse that you can’t believe that the Lich King wouldn’t give his own generals Frost powers?

First you have to prove that the Lich King, pre-Wrath, had any frost powers to begin with.

Two. The Gargoyle they summon also emits plague damage.

Oh, you know what I found out, after some reading? 'Plague', just like shadowfrost and chaos, are separate magic types. Yes, they deal both shadow and nature damage, but from what I'm reading this is just because it's easier to just mechanically combine two or more magic types than to create whole new ones. So, saying that an ability is dealing "plague damage", it doesn't mean it's a nature spell. Unless you'd like to accept that demon hunters can wield holy magic, because, as you know, the 'chaos' magic type is all magic types together.

I’m equating the two because it shows that there’s nothing the Necromancer can do that a DK can’t do.

Actually casting spells without requiring a weapon is one difference. Being able to use poison magic is another possible difference. This is your problem, Teriz. You allow all kinds of imagination when it comes to designing your favorite fan concepts, but you refuse to allow the same courtesy to any other fan concept. You don't allow them any sort of deviancy from what is shown in the game, despite it's having been proven that Blizzard doesn't adhere strictly to what the game shows. Case in point: the death knight. At no point they have ever used blood or frost magic before Wrath. None of the existing death knights ever did that. But that did not stop Blizzard from giving two spell types that the concept has never used.

How can you “feel” it when you can’t even play it?

I see you completely side-stepped the argument where I demonstrate you making up lies to back up your claims.

Your Necromancer is a Diablo ripoff, and I’ve already shown how “Dread”, Undeath, and whatever the other spec was was merely a variation of Unholy, Blood, and Frost.

Again, since you made the exact same claim, I'll just repeat what I wrote: "There is not a single thing there that is true. Every word of it, complete lies, demonstrated over and over. You have shown to go to extreme lengths and grasp at every straw you can find. And the only necromancer concept that you've shown doesn't even look or feel like a death knight."

You can. Just roll a Death Knight.

Just like you can play a tinker if you take up the hunter class with the engineering profession?

[Teriz]

In other words: your fan concept. Because the ability does not exist in WoW. The moment you start talking about the ability inside WoW, you're no longer talking about the actual WC3 ability, but instead talking about your own fan concept of it.

So if we're talking about the Tinker entering WoW as a class, any ability that it had in WC3 is a fan ability in your opinion despite the fact that Blizzard has always brought over WC3 abilities for previous expansion classes?

Because your criteria for it to be 'blood' are through "retroactive continuity". It wasn't a blood spell back then, it didn't have blood-like graphics. It became a 'blood spec' spell after the fact. And like I said before: even if I granted you that Death Pact is a blood spell, you still have the issue of absolutely no death knight ever using frost magic before the Wrath expansion.

But Death Knights had a vampiric theme within their lore, so why is it so hard for you to believe that Blizzard wouldn't give them an ability to go along with that them? And the lack of Frost magic isn't really an issue because it makes sense for a class created by the Lich King to have Lich powers.

No, he did not. The Lich King, in fact, did not have any powers shown in Warcraft 3, as far as I recall. Because the "Lich King" was nothing but a helm and armor encased in ice, and Frostmourne.


Irrelevant because I'm asking for death knights using frost before the playable class was implemented.


An unholy-corrupted Sunwell.


First you have to prove that the Lich King, pre-Wrath, had any frost powers to begin with.

So the ability to transform someone into a Lich isn't an example of being able to use frost powers? I mean you basically turn someone into a skeleton covered with ice.

Oh, you know what I found out, after some reading? 'Plague', just like shadowfrost and chaos, are separate magic types. Yes, they deal both shadow and nature damage, but from what I'm reading this is just because it's easier to just mechanically combine two or more magic types than to create whole new ones. So, saying that an ability is dealing "plague damage", it doesn't mean it's a nature spell. Unless you'd like to accept that demon hunters can wield holy magic, because, as you know, the 'chaos' magic type is all magic types together.

I have no problem with the notion that Demon Hunters can deal holy damage. That's simply the fact of the matter.

Actually casting spells without requiring a weapon is one difference. Being able to use poison magic is another possible difference. This is your problem, Teriz. You allow all kinds of imagination when it comes to designing your favorite fan concepts, but you refuse to allow the same courtesy to any other fan concept. You don't allow them any sort of deviancy from what is shown in the game, despite it's having been proven that Blizzard doesn't adhere strictly to what the game shows. Case in point: the death knight. At no point they have ever used blood or frost magic before Wrath. None of the existing death knights ever did that. But that did not stop Blizzard from giving two spell types that the concept has never used.

Like I said, we have no idea how Blizzard categorized those spells in WC3. However we do know that the Death Knights had vampiric runeblades as weapons, which connects them to blood/vampiric magic, and they're connected to their creator the Lich King, which connects them to Frost magic. When you get right down to it, given that the Death Knight was the Necromancer hero of WC3, it makes sense that if you're going to make it into a three spec class, you're going to pull the three branches of Necromancer (Blood, Undead/Unholy, and Lich/Frost) into the class.

This btw is far different than you using mad scientists and saying that they taught Necromancers alchemy with nothing to back that claim up other than Scholmance was a school, and the mad scientist is called "professor".

I see you completely side-stepped the argument where I demonstrate you making up lies to back up your claims.

I prefer to consider it a demonstration of your denial that both Necromancer concepts you linked to are simply variations of the DK class.

Just like you can play a tinker if you take up the hunter class with the engineering profession?

Name a WC3 or HotS Tinker ability you can use in the Hunter class or the Engineering profession. I can name multiple Necromancer abilities within the DK class.

[Z3ROR]

This is always something i would like to see. something similar to class halls except anyone can join. Then you get access to a spec or 2 depending on the base class.

Like say a mage joins the warrior hall and has access to an eldritch knight spec. IF they join their own class hall they get access to a spec or specs similar to what you wrote.

I'm sure it would be a balancing nightmare, but it would be fun as hell.

That's a cool idea too. More like class fusion. I guess that adding only a handful of spells per class, where you can choose one spell from (or maybe two) is more then enough. I mean you could be a Mage with a warrior ability. That's powerful.

[Volitar]

It has 1 button, can permanently fly and it does top damage.

[Teriz]

Sylvanus is "popular" because Blizz made her that way. On its own, I think Illidan is hitting the high note on popularity...and I despise the writing that got him here in the first place.

Yeah, she's had so much intense focus over multiple expansions that its not surprising she's so popular and recognizable. However, like Necromancers, since Dark Rangers weren't brought into the class lineup in this expansion where they fit perfectly, I don't see them ever being brought in as their own class. It doesn't help that Blizzard has made every indication that Dark Rangers are just the Forsaken variation of the Hunter class, and that Sylvanas can't replicate her Banshee powers within the DR ranks.

[ipoststuff]

Anything but tinker.

[Ielenia]

So if we're talking about the Tinker entering WoW as a class, any ability that it had in WC3 is a fan ability in your opinion despite the fact that Blizzard has always brought over WC3 abilities for previous expansion classes?

Teriz, any and all abilities you give to a hypothetical tinker class are fan concepts. Because neither exist in WoW.

But Death Knights had a vampiric theme within their lore, so why is it so hard for you to believe that Blizzard wouldn't give them an ability to go along with that them? And the lack of Frost magic isn't really an issue because it makes sense for a class created by the Lich King to have Lich powers.

No, it is an issue. It is an issue for you, because your go-to "argument" is to demand to see necromancers actually using poison. Then you must prove that this "argument" you love to spew isn't bogus, and show death knights using frost magic before Wrath. And now you constantly try give the exact same types of answers I give but you always dismiss them and repeat "show me necromancers using poison".

So the ability to transform someone into a Lich isn't an example of being able to use frost powers? I mean you basically turn someone into a skeleton covered with ice.

Go rant at Blizzard. They're the ones who showed someone being transformed into a lich without using frost powers. Just check this video: https://youtu.be/uctIQ_rQJhk?t=266 Kel'Thuzad's spirit literally just walks into the Sunwell, it becomes corrupted, and he re-emerges as a lich. You can check Reforged's version of the animation here: https://youtu.be/1gKBVA_45Fg?t=397 The Sunwell is even affected by green energies, which in this case denotes necromantic magic, not frost magic.

I have no problem with the notion that Demon Hunters can deal holy damage. That's simply the fact of the matter.

So you're saying demon hunters are holy spellcasters? Is that it? How low will you go to defend your double-standards?

Like I said, we have no idea how Blizzard categorized those spells in WC3. However we do know that the Death Knights had vampiric runeblades as weapons, which connects them to blood/vampiric magic, and they're connected to their creator the Lich King, which connects them to Frost magic.

It does not connect them to frost magic. Because the Lich King or the death knights have never shown to use frost magic, in WC3 or in pre-Wrath WoW. This is such arrogant double-standards because you're granting frost powers to death knights by flimsy association, yet you refuse the same courtesy to other people's fan concepts.

This btw is far different than you using mad scientists and saying that they taught Necromancers alchemy with nothing to back that claim up other than Scholmance was a school, and the mad scientist is called "professor".

It's not "far different". Being arrogant regarding does not count as a difference.

I prefer to consider it a demonstration of your denial that both Necromancer concepts you linked to are simply variations of the DK class.

Except it's not denial. You're literally stretching the definitions of the death knight's specs when you accuse others of using "frost/blood/unholy" DK specs. The one you linked? The spec you call "unholy" is nothing like the death knight's actual unholy spec. You're even go so far to dishonestly equate diseases to poisons because "both deal nature damage", despite the fact none of the diseases in the DK arsenal deal nature damage.

[Teriz]

Teriz, any and all abilities you give to a hypothetical tinker class are fan concepts. Because neither exist in WoW.

Which is false. Pocket Factory is a WC3 ability and we have multiple examples of WC3 abilities being translated 1:1 into WoW.

No, it is an issue. It is an issue for you, because your go-to "argument" is to demand to see necromancers actually using poison. Then you must prove that this "argument" you love to spew isn't bogus, and show death knights using frost magic before Wrath. And now you constantly try give the exact same types of answers I give but you always dismiss them and repeat "show me necromancers using poison".

There's a difference between Death Knights being created by the Lich King thus being lined up for Frost powers, and you're disconnected believe that professor slate is teaching Necromancers poison-based alchemy when no Necromancers since Scholomance have ever used that ability.

So you're saying demon hunters are holy spellcasters? Is that it? How low will you go to defend your double-standards?

Where did I say that? I just said that via chaos magic they can deal holy damage.

It does not connect them to frost magic. Because the Lich King or the death knights have never shown to use frost magic, in WC3 or in pre-Wrath WoW. This is such arrogant double-standards because you're granting frost powers to death knights by flimsy association, yet you refuse the same courtesy to other people's fan concepts.

The fact that the Lich King was shown to use frost powers in WotLK and that DKs have a frost spec, pretty much shows that the Lich King could always use frost magic. Again, that makes sense because he's called the Lich King. That's called common sense.

It's not "far different". Being arrogant regarding does not count as a difference.

Uh, the Lich King turned Arthas into a Death Knight. Lich King Arthas in turn created his own cadre of Death Knights. There is no direct connection between Professor slate and any Necromancers.

Except it's not denial. You're literally stretching the definitions of the death knight's specs when you accuse others of using "frost/blood/unholy" DK specs. The one you linked? The spec you call "unholy" is nothing like the death knight's actual unholy spec. You're even go so far to dishonestly equate diseases to poisons because "both deal nature damage", despite the fact none of the diseases in the DK arsenal deal nature damage.

I never said that. What I said is that in the case of WoW, the Scourge (and the Forsaken) used alchemy in order to create plagues based around poison and toxins. When DKs came on the scene, it simply made more sense for the DK to use magic-based diseases and plague instead of the DK tossing vials of chemicals around.

The nonsense you and others push as Necromancers don't even make sense lore wise. For example, a Necromancer wouldn't use a spray gun or toss vials of poisons at people. That's a mad-scientist, not a necromancer. A Necromancer can't enter and leave Lich form. The Lich is a permanent transformation, so an ability that allows Necros to enter and leave Lich form makes zero sense. As I've always said, it's better to just butcher the DK and Warlock classes and take the Necromancer abilities you guys need, because these concepts that attempt to avoid DK and Warlock spells are lacking on multiple levels.