Thank you Undertaker.

[Yriel]

I don't understand it myself. Like.. these people know that they are acting right?

See thats what makes it interesting for me.
I could never get into UFC or boxing since i have no stakes in the fights, it's just 2 random dudes beating each other. I never had anyone to root for since they are just random people and only fight each other for some league placement or something.
In wrestling there is this neat little soap opera story lines for everyone and i'm interested how they play out.

Plus, everything being acted can give much more interesting and suprising results. In Boxing they may build up a new fighter as being the rising star, only for him to lose every fight after that. Thats anti-climatic.
Wrestling is more a show than a sport and thats a good thing. I think they nailed it with calling themselves "sports entertainment".

[the game]

See thats what makes it interesting for me.
I could never get into UFC or boxing since i have no stakes in the fights, it's just 2 random dudes beating each other. I never had anyone to root for since they are just random people and only fight each other for some league placement or something.
In wrestling there is this neat little soap opera story lines for everyone and i'm interested how they play out.

Plus, everything being acted can give much more interesting and suprising results. In Boxing they may build up a new fighter as being the rising star, only for him to lose every fight after that. Thats anti-climatic.
Wrestling is more a show than a sport and thats a good thing. I think they nailed it with calling themselves "sports entertainment".

I like to think of pro wrestling as more of an arena show since the audience is also a part of the show. I think it's more accurate than describing it as a soap opera.

I'll honestly never understand the people who always feel the need to tell people that wrestling is fake. Game of Thrones and Walking dead are fake but nobody feels the need to tell others that the show is fake. Wrestling is entertainment just like any other show. For some reason though people feel the need to talk down to wrestling fans. If it's not someone's thing then that's fine. But let the people who do enjoy the show to enjoy it.

[PC2]

I like to think of pro wrestling as more of an arena show since the audience is also a part of the show. I think it's more accurate than describing it as a soap opera.

I'll honestly never understand the people who always feel the need to tell people that wrestling is fake. Game of Thrones and Walking dead are fake but nobody feels the need to tell others that the show is fake. Wrestling is entertainment just like any other show. For some reason though people feel the need to talk down to wrestling fans. If it's not someone's thing then that's fine. But let the people who do enjoy the show to enjoy it.

Right so perhaps a majority of art is fake/fictional so for the people who say that you could always turn the tables and tell them about how their favorite movie or TV show is fake and it's just predetermined fiction. Of course some young people do think wrestling is real but some young people also think that fake movie stunts are real and that actors in movies actually do die when the character dies. There's definitely a double-standard at play and it probably only exists because people stereotype the audience as opposed to having real criticisms of the performance.

[Fencers]

I'll honestly never understand the people who always feel the need to tell people that wrestling is fake.

It's the context and history. Pro wrestling for decades tried to pass as a legitimate competition because fundamentally it existed in the same entertainment space as actual competitive combat sports such as Boxing and later MMA.

Boxing and MMA, both of which I do enjoy btdubs, are entertainment too. But the audience incentive is based on the factor that it is a legitimate competition. For pro wrestling, the audience engagement came early on (pre-50s) from the technicality of it all and onto the Post-1950s era of larger-than-life personality and so on. But the legacy of pro wrestling competing for the audience engagement and dollar alongside legitimate competitive combat sports exists then and now.

Once pro wrestling could be shown nationwide and worldwide with increasing higher theatricality, the pretense of legitimate competition faded away for the most part to where we are today. Which oddly is still divided among the technical exhibition-style (ROH Pure, Bloodsport, NJPW, MLW, etc) and the winking-at-the-audience theater (AEW, WWE, Lucha Underground, etc).

There's definitely a double-standard at play and it probably only exists because people stereotype the audience as opposed to having real criticisms of the performance.

As I said above, this is just the legacy of pro wrestling having been born in carnivals essentially and eventually competing with legitimate competitive sports. In a few decades, this divide will largely cease as kayfabe did today and we'd just be left with what is basically a theatrical stunt fight that all but the most gullible or extremely young might think is "real".

Not that Pro Wrestling is fake, it's scripted and choreographed, but they do take actual physical hits and "bumps" that take a devastating toll on their health and well being. Just look at the number of gory injuries that occurred this year alone; broken legs, arms, jaws, ankle snaps, concussions, and more. Performers have been out for months or severely injured left and right this year.

Pretty infamously. For example.

[PC2]

they do take actual physical hits and "bumps" that take a devastating toll on their health and well being.

Yeah there's still a lot of physical damage and serious injuries in wrestling.

I would say an extremely brutal sport like MMA is actually safer than comparable activities in many ways because their total(career) time in the ring and the fight duration is very small. Personally if I could only make my fortune in a short high-intensity activity versus a very long career where I'm constantly taking a medium-intensity beating I would consider the shorter career to be the physically safer route. (Assuming equal compensation)

[Unholyground]

Too bad the WWE treats their wrestler like fucking cattle and they have next to no medical benefits, many of the older players are getting CTE and horrible diseases because of the lack of care for their lives or healthcare provided.

[PC2]

Too bad the WWE treats their wrestler like fucking cattle and they have next to no medical benefits, many of the older players are getting CTE and horrible diseases because of the lack of care for their lives or healthcare provided.

Sure but I think that's the case for 95% of people who are in any physically damaging industry like wrestling, boxing, MMA, football, etc. Only the top 5% make so much that they'd never have to worry about their finances and medical bills in any future circumstance.

You can always make a similar argument about workers in general but at that point it's just a politicization and it's not about an industry or organization that is broken.

[Unholyground]

Sure but I think that's the case for 95% of people who are in any physically damaging industry like wrestling, boxing, MMA, football, etc. Only the top 5% make so much that they'd never have to worry about their finances and medical bills in any future circumstance.

You can always make a similar argument about workers in general but at that point it's just a politicization and it's not about an industry or organization that is broken.

Based on how rich it has made the owner he could actually take care of them, it is a drop in the bucket.

[Fencers]

Vince is garbage, but nowadays WWE's performers are well compensated and get great medical plans. Most of the older performers employed by WWE likewise are well compensated and cared for.

WWE performers are largely independent contractors. Many that came before the 90s overhaul were responsible for their own expenses and injuries prior to WWE though.

I am not a fan of Vince or WWE- both are total garbage, IMO, but it's not really accurate in this day and age to assert WWE the corporation just left a bunch of 'old timers' high and dry anymore.

[PC2]

Based on how rich it has made the owner he could actually take care of them, it is a drop in the bucket.

Their labor isn't worth the extra cost though so why should they get paid for more than their labor is worth? You can't just double their compensation because there's a lot of badass dudes who can be trained and would love to be wrestling for half the compensation.

[Egomaniac]

Most do... but, I still find it strange that no one calls these people their actual names. Is Steve Austin that much easier to remember than Steve Williams? HHH I can understand... who the hell can spell French names, Loveque... But, Mark Calaway? Should be easy...
]

Because it's their "Nom de Plume". Or, since you seem to take issues with French, their "Stage Name".

Tell me, do you use the name "Norma Jean Mortenson" or "Marilyn Monroe"?

Or, using your previous example "Michael Sylvester Gardenzio Stallone".

[Unholyground]

Their labor isn't worth the extra cost though so why should they get paid for more than their labor is worth? You can't just double their compensation because there's a lot of badass dudes who can be trained and would love to be wrestling for half the compensation.

You really need to research and read how many people and families they ruined, and how much is expected of them.

[Egomaniac]

Their labor isn't worth the extra cost though so why should they get paid for more than their labor is worth? You can't just double their compensation because there's a lot of badass dudes who can be trained and would love to be wrestling for half the compensation.

I don't see how providing proper health care for employees that take risks to their physical health in order to keep your business profitable is "more than their labor is worth?"

It should be a bare minimum.

[PC2]

I don't see how providing proper health care for employees that take risks to their physical health in order to keep your business profitable is "more than their labor is worth?"

It should be a bare minimum.

I mean if they specifically get injured from a wrestling incident then I would say the company should 100% pay for the medical bills however if we're talking about accumulated and chronic health issues in general then the wrestler can't really ask for more medical compensation because all they're really saying is that they're too old to wrestle and they should be replace by a healthier person who is more suited for the job.

[Egomaniac]

I mean if they specifically get injured from a wrestling incident then I would say the company should 100% pay for the medical bills however if we're talking about accumulated and chronic health issues in general then the wrestler can't really ask for more medical compensation because all they're really saying is that they're too old to wrestle and they should be replace by a healthier person who is more suited for the job.

Accumulated and Chronic health issues that are the result of their activities for the company should certainly be covered by the company.

[Fencers]

Accumulated and Chronic health issues that are the result of their activities for the company should certainly be covered by the company.

They are. Again, it's out of date to keep saying WWE performers are not covered and compensated anymore. Most of their roster are millionaires after a few years.

Even lower card talent makes 100k + various incentives, cuts, and so on. Guys at the top of the card like Roman or Lesnar make multimillions yearly.

This ain't the days of stiffing Greg Valentine or Crush for a lousy house show. WWE is a public company.

[Poopymonster]

I don't see how providing proper health care for employees that take risks to their physical health in order to keep your business profitable is "more than their labor is worth?"

It should be a bare minimum.

Financially the premiums for wrestlers would be astronomical even if you could find a company to insure them in the first place, but that's a whole different equation of Scott Steiner maths. Wrestler gets injured? All premiums go up. WWE can afford it. Easily. They just don't want to.

This is WWE alone. AEW, MLW, ROH, and Impact might be able to afford it, with AEW being the most likely candidate to be able to absorb said costs. MLW least likely.

Solution: M4A!

[PC2]

Accumulated and Chronic health issues that are the result of their activities for the company should certainly be covered by the company.

Companies will cover those costs while they are employed up to a certain extent but if they get too high then it makes more sense to replace the person with someone who is actually healthy and not falling a part. In terms of post-employment there's simply no way that anyone can say that a business they used to work at is responsible for any new and uncovered health issues they have in their life. Unless they worked out the details of that beforehand.

[Moadar]

Love wrestlers. Working backstage security at arenas is where I got all the good steroid info back in the day.

[Felya]

Their labor isn't worth the extra cost though so why should they get paid for more than their labor is worth? You can't just double their compensation because there's a lot of badass dudes who can be trained and would love to be wrestling for half the compensation.

Yeah, I can think of a few... Nathan Jones and Achim Albrecht... Google them... what you said is ridiculous.

Bad ass dudes is also kinda funny... it’s cardio...