If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Teriz]

You can't say that with certainty. You don't speak for everyone. Speak for yourself.

Which part? People accepting an Orc or a Draenei zapping someone and turning them into a Robotic chicken, or the Tinker class being based on Goblin/Gnome technology?

[TheRevenantHero]

Which part? People accepting an Orc or a Draenei zapping someone and turning them into a Robotic chicken, or the Tinker class being based on Goblin/Gnome technology?

Both. You can't speak for the opinions and thought processes of everyone. Nor can I.

[Traveler Voltin]

You saying this does nothing but show you haven't read all the lore or are deliberately disregarding other tech based races. Saying that goblins and gnomes are more tech based than draenei is positively laughable.

Draenei are more magic and light based than tech. they didnt even have space ships until the Naaru showed up.
Draenei's "tech" is crystals infused with magic.

[TheRevenantHero]

Draenei are more magic and light based than tech. they didnt even have space ships until the Naaru showed up.
Draenei's "tech" is crystals infused with magic.

The draenei have been tech based since they fled Argus. It doesn't matter how they make their tech. The point is they are technology inclined and therefore could easily adapt to whatever Blizzard decided Tinker would be.

[Traveler Voltin]

The draenei have been tech based since they fled Argus. It doesn't matter how they make their tech. The point is they are technology inclined and therefore could easily adapt to whatever Blizzard decided Tinker would be.

the lightforged have more tech than the normal Draenei.

the tinker people have been wanting is Gnome and Goblin based.

[TheRevenantHero]

the lightforged have more tech than the normal Draenei.

the tinker people have been wanting is Gnome and Goblin based.

I'm someone who wants tinker. I'd be furious if it was restricted to goblin and gnome. So as I told Teriz, speak for yourself.

[Teriz]

Both. You can't speak for the opinions and thought processes of everyone. Nor can I.

Yeah, I understand the WoW player base quite well.

Look, the best way to implement the Tinker class is to keep them confined to Goblins, Vulpera, Gnomes, and Mechagnomes. Why? Because that way they're limited to races where their thematics make the most sense, and they don't alter the texture of the game. Goblins and Gnomes are already completely enveloped into the technology theme, the other races are not, especially not Goblin/Gnome tech. It's one thing to see a Goblin in a Shredder mech walking around and doing stuff. It's another thing to see an Orc, Blood Elf, or Draenei inside a goblin shredder doing stuff. This is why I believe Blizzard been slowly introducing the Tinker concept over the course of multiple expansions to slowly have people get used to the idea of a technology class. It started with Helix Blackfuse in MoP and its been working its way up in WoD, Legion, and BFA. But it's been almost entirely Goblin and Gnomes they've been doing that with.

Now with that said, if Blizzard is willing to create an entirely different model and animation set for Nightborne and Draenei artificers, I'm all for it.

[TheRevenantHero]

Yeah, I understand the WoW player base quite well.

Look, the best way to implement the Tinker class is to keep them confined to Goblins, Vulpera, Gnomes, and Mechagnomes. Why? Because that way they're limited to races where their thematics make the most sense, and they don't alter the texture of the game. Goblins and Gnomes are already completely enveloped into the technology theme, the other races are not, especially not Goblin/Gnome tech. It's one thing to see a Goblin in a Shredder mech walking around and doing stuff. It's another thing to see an Orc, Blood Elf, or Draenei inside a goblin shredder doing stuff. This is why I believe Blizzard been slowly introducing the Tinker concept over the course of multiple expansions to slowly have people get used to the idea of a technology class. It started with Helix Blackfuse in MoP and its been working its way up in WoD, Legion, and BFA. But it's been almost entirely Goblin and Gnomes they've been doing that with.

Now with that said, if Blizzard is willing to create an entirely different model and animation set for Nightborne and Draenei artificers, I'm all for it.

That is 100% your opinion and something that, based on people who typically respond to you, is an opinion that is not popular. Most players do NOT want a class restricted to the small races. How do I know? Because of statistics that show they are the LEAST played races in game. Making tinkers exclusive to them is more likely to piss players off than anything else.

Is pissing players off really worth pleasing a very very small part of the playerbase? I personally don't think so.

[Teriz]

That is 100% your opinion and something that, based on people who typically respond to you, is an opinion that is not popular. Most players do NOT want a class restricted to the small races. How do I know? Because of statistics that show they are the LEAST played races in game. Making tinkers exclusive to them is more likely to piss players off than anything else.

Is pissing players off really worth pleasing a very very small part of the playerbase? I personally don't think so.

And they're the least played races in the game because no class fits their racial theme/lore. When you run into Goblins and Gnomes in WoW they're almost always using some device, gizmo, or riding inside a mech. Since you can't do that in any significant capacity, then their population numbers are going to suffer.

I think one thing to consider is that people REALLY like mechs in WoW. You create a class attached to mechs and people will want to play it. And since the player base is used to seeing Goblins and Gnomes inside mechs, they won't be offended by the class being limited to those races.

[TheRevenantHero]

And they're the least played races in the game because no class fits their racial theme/lore. When you run into Goblins and Gnomes in WoW they're almost always using some device, gizmo, or riding inside a mech. Since you can't do that in any significant capacity, then their population numbers are going to suffer.

I think one thing to consider is that people REALLY like mechs in WoW. You create a class attached to mechs and people will want to play it. And since the player base is used to seeing Goblins and Gnomes inside mechs, they won't be offended by the class being limited to those races.

Lmao that is purely conjecture as to why they're not played very much. The much more likely reason is because they're ugly as sin, have crap racial abilities, and a lot of players don't like super short characters. And once again, speak for yourself. Most people I have seen comment about your idea have said that restricting it to goblin and gnome wouldn't boost the number of those races played by a whole lot while also pissing players off by forcing them to play a race they hate just to try out the new class.

It literally doesn't matter what players are used to. Players were used to only humans and blood elves being paladins in the game but STILL asked for more races to get paladin. So that logic is incredibly flawed. Please stop acting like you know the mindset of most players especially since most comments on the matter disagree with you.

[Teriz]

Lmao that is purely conjecture as to why they're not played very much. The much more likely reason is because they're ugly as sin, have crap racial abilities, and a lot of players don't like super short characters.

A Goblin or Gnome inside a mech solves the majority of those issues.


Example:



Example 2:




A Goblin or Gnome inside a mech should be about the size of a fully armored Draenei or Tauren. Maybe even a bit taller.

[TheRevenantHero]

A Goblin or Gnome inside a mech solves the majority of those issues.


Example:



Example 2:




A Goblin or Gnome inside a mech should be about the size of a fully armored Draenei or Tauren. Maybe even a bit taller.

Once again, completely your opinion. I disagree with your opinion. Making tinker restricted to gnome and goblin would piss me off and it wouldn't make me want to make a tinker at all if those were the only options. So you can say over and over that it would increase the population of gnomes or goblins but I think you're wrong. The population of those races in the game might raise a little but it's far more likely to upset most people rather than making them happy.

[Ielenia]

We're not talking about the games, we're talking about the abilities. Abilities from WC3 have been translated to WoW with the same mechanics and rules.

And others were not. Which is the whole point. Saying that any given ability will be translated 1:1 from WC3 to WoW is making a "fan concept" of the ability. Because it does not exist in WoW.

Uh, my list could be twice as short as yours and it proves my point and completely disproves yours.

Teriz, that's not how it works. You're claiming the ability will be ported over to WoW "one-to-one", as-is, without any changes to their WC3 mechanics, and you're using the fact that abilities from the RTS game were ported over without any changes. However, to disprove your claim, all I need to do is to show that we have abilities that were ported over while undergoing changes to their mechanics.

What makes him not a Lich exactly?

The fact that he's not a floating skeleton wearing a skirt?

This is a prime example of head canon.

Facts are now head canon. Of course.

What if the professor isn't teaching the Necromancers alchemy?

What else would he be teaching, considering he has two table full of potions and alchemical equipment?

What if he's not teaching them at all and he's just there to break up the monotony of players fighting a bunch of spell casters?

Theeeeere it is. The trademarked Teriz argument of "game mechanics are lore".

You would think a character so pivotal as to justify an entire class having a poison spec, you would think he would be more than just a minor boss character with next to zero lore.

We had an entire class out of a single character that has never personally showed up on WoW, was only mentioned in passing by an obscure quest chain, and even then said quest chain spoke only of the character's love for drinking, not their martial arts prowess. So I don't see the issue, here.

Ladies and Gentlemen, the creator of Death Knights in WC3 and WoW;



Gee, I wonder how they ended up with Frost abilities.....

And this is another example of you shooting yourself in the foot. You really thought you had a "gotcha", didn't you? Except you failed. First, let me tell you something: I googled that image. And I did not find any image exactly like that one. Although, I did find many others without the Warcraft 3 logo on them, like this one:

Meaning? What you have is an edited image. Also, take your original image, zoom in on it, and read what's written on the bottom left corner of it:

It says "World of Warcraft Wrath of the Lich King", you dolt. That is not a pre-Wrath rendition of the Lich King.

These characters had Metamorphosis in Black Temple as well;

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=21171/alandien#abilities
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=21164/netharel#abilities
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=21168/theras#abilities

Except they didn't change back after using the ability, did they?

Someone needs to have standards around these parts.

Oh, you got standards, alright. Double-standards.

Blizzard disagrees, as shown by how they describe the Survival spec.

Blizzard also describes the enhancement shaman spec as a "warrior": "A totemic warrior who strikes foes with weapons imbued with elemental power."

[Teriz]

Once again, completely your opinion. I disagree with your opinion. Making tinker restricted to gnome and goblin would piss me off and it wouldn't make me want to make a tinker at all if those were the only options. So you can say over and over that it would increase the population of gnomes or goblins but I think you're wrong. The population of those races in the game might raise a little but it's far more likely to upset most people rather than making them happy.

Okay, so you say you would like the Tinker class to incorporate Draenei and Nightborne. How do you suggest they do that? Mechs? A Ranged class similar to Hunters with robotic summons? What would you suggest?

[TheRevenantHero]

Okay, so you say you would like the Tinker class to incorporate Draenei and Nightborne. How do you suggest they do that? Mechs? A Ranged class similar to Hunters with robotic summons? What would you suggest?

Actually, I'd want EVERY race to have access much like monk. Because the vast majority of tinkers in lore didn't invent most of the gadgets. They just build them from schematics and then use them. Any race with members that are smart enough to follow written instructions could be capable of being a tinker. I'm fine with some of the abilities you've mentioned. I'm NOT fine with restricting them to the incredibly unpopular small races. Each race doesn't need to have unique abilities to their race in the tinker class. It could easily be like tauren paladins where all they did was make it so tauren could make a paladin before slapping all the paladin abilities onto the race. There has never been an example of a class getting unique spells/abilities based on their race to my knowledge. So asking me how they could incorporate other races into the class is irrelevant. They could just easily do the same thing they did for other races when a class unlocks for them like when Blizzard started letting players play things like dwarf and tauren paladins.

[Teriz]

Teriz, that's not how it works. You're claiming the ability will be ported over to WoW "one-to-one", as-is, without any changes to their WC3 mechanics, and you're using the fact that abilities from the RTS game were ported over without any changes. However, to disprove your claim, all I need to do is to show that we have abilities that were ported over while undergoing changes to their mechanics.

But that doesn't disprove my claim, because my point is that there were WC3 abilities translated 1:1 into WoW. The fact that other WC3 abilities were changed doesn't disprove the original point.

The fact that he's not a floating skeleton wearing a skirt?

Considering that he's supposed to be a "King of Lichs", why would you assume that he would look like a standard Lich?

Facts are now head canon. Of course.

What else would he be teaching, considering he has two table full of potions and alchemical equipment?

Question, where does it show that Professor Slate is teaching poison at all?

We had an entire class out of a single character that has never personally showed up on WoW, was only mentioned in passing by an obscure quest chain, and even then said quest chain spoke only of the character's love for drinking, not their martial arts prowess. So I don't see the issue, here.

Well yes, because WoW didn't have a Monk class, and people wanted a Monk class, so Blizzard attached the Monk concept to the Brewmaster/Pandaria concept. Professor Slate isn't even a Necromancer. He's supposedly the character that teaches Necromancers how to use Poison, even though he doesn't use poison himself....

And this is another example of you shooting yourself in the foot. You really thought you had a "gotcha", didn't you? Except you failed. First, let me tell you something: I googled that image. And I did not find any image exactly like that one. Although, I did find many others without the Warcraft 3 logo on them, like this one:

Meaning? What you have is an edited image. Also, take your original image, zoom in on it, and read what's written on the bottom left corner of it:

It says "World of Warcraft Wrath of the Lich King", you dolt. That is not a pre-Wrath rendition of the Lich King.

Would this make you feel better?



It's from 2006, before WotLK was announced.

Except they didn't change back after using the ability, did they?

I believe that they did.

Blizzard also describes the enhancement shaman spec as a "warrior": "A totemic warrior who strikes foes with weapons imbued with elemental power."

So I'll ask you what I asked Triceron; What exactly is a Ranger? Feel free to use RPG tropes to make your case.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually, I'd want EVERY race to have access much like monk. Because the vast majority of tinkers in lore didn't invent most of the gadgets. They just build them from schematics and then use them. Any race with members that are smart enough to follow written instructions could be capable of being a tinker. I'm fine with some of the abilities you've mentioned. I'm NOT fine with restricting them to the incredibly unpopular small races. Each race doesn't need to have unique abilities to their race in the tinker class. It could easily be like tauren paladins where all they did was make it so tauren could make a paladin before slapping all the paladin abilities onto the race. There has never been an example of a class getting unique spells/abilities based on their race to my knowledge. So asking me how they could incorporate other races into the class is irrelevant. They could just easily do the same thing they did for other races when a class unlocks for them like when Blizzard started letting players play things like dwarf and tauren paladins.

Okay, so what type of abilities do you envision for this omni-racial Tinker class? Spec configuration? Defining characteristics, etc.?

[cocomen2]

Would this make you feel better?



It's from 2006, before WotLK was announced.

Lets role-play a "Teriz" who love to grasp a straw:

All i see on that picture is winter location, man in LK armor pulls sword out of rock or ice , in what kind of spot that pictures shows his powers over ICE?

If i gonna took a selfie near ICE cube it would translate that i have some ice powers too? maybe he moved to cold climate location so his army would stop rotting, who knows.

Show me him using Ice powers, or i not gonna accept it.

As Teriz used same amount of straw :

What if the professor isn't teaching the Necromancers alchemy?

LoL he is teaching them about gnome sex life? or what?

[Teriz]

Lets role-play a "Teriz" who love to grasp a straw:

All i see on that picture is winter location, man in LK armor pulls sword out of rock or ice , in what kind of spot that pictures shows his powers over ICE?

If i gonna took a selfie near ICE cube it would translate that i have some ice powers too? maybe he moved to cold climate location so his army would stop rotting, who knows.

Show me him using Ice powers, or i not gonna accept it.

So you can’t tell he has Frost powers from his weapon emanating obvious cold/Frost magic?

As Teriz used same amount of straw :

LoL he is teaching them about gnome sex life? or what?

According to his ability list, he has Acid, Fire, and strength potions, no poison.

[Triceron]

Based on what abilities?

The ability to use magic, as Rangers do.

Hunters do not.

Need an example of Rangers who use magic? Lorthemar and Halduron are both Rangers, and both use magic abilities. Lore-wise, they are not Hunters, not Paladins, not Mages. They are Farstriders, they are Rangers. There is no playable class equivalent of what they are, just as there is no official Priestess of the Moon.

Based on what I saw from the Nathanos cinematic, Tyrande's Night Warrior would be better served as a DH 3rd spec.

She seems to be able to do both melee and shoot arrows in her fight with Nathanos. If she went blind and grew horns, I could see the transition to DH.

What exactly is a "Ranger" in your view? Feel free to use traditional RPG tropes to make your case.

Magic user that chooses to use Bows as their weapon of choice. They excel in archery and use it to support their spellcasting.

So let me get this straight... You actually believe that Blizzard wants to bring in the Dark Ranger class, but couldn't bring them into the game because they didn't fit the theme of an expansion where the main character is the archetypal Dark Ranger hero, and involves the concept of death and the afterlife?

Where did I say I believe Blizzard wants to do anything?

No, you are projecting. I have been clear about my beliefs, I don't think Blizzard would even pursue new classes in the future. They absolutely could, but the devs haven't proven to me they are capable really. On top of this a long term class designer left the company recently, so my beliefs on the state of class design isn't very high. Class skins are the likely future of Classes.

Again, please tell me how Monks, DKs, and Demon Hunters fit in the stories of their expansions. The expansion doesn't revolve around the new classes, they revolve around the archetypal heroes of that new class. You know, sort of how Shadowlands revolves around whatever Sylvanas, a Dark Ranger is currently doing.

They don't revolve around the new classes, but each of the classes fit the expansions and have reason to fight.

The Dark Rangers have lost everything and are in a prrtty poor state of affairs, having just been abandoned by their leader. Where do they fit in the story? They don't. I can't even think how you'd introduce them in a questline. Even Nathanos gets killed off, they're practically leaderless now.

Because they have no plan to ever release a Necromancer or Dark Ranger class.

They don't have plans to ever release ANY class. When was the last time the ever openly stated what classes they are considering and working on? They've only ever denied possibilities, like saying they aren't working on Demon Hunters or saying Tinkers are too whimsical. Not once have I heard them say 'yeah we want Tinkers playable' or 'We'd love to have Dark Rangers'.

We can effectively deny all future classes if we base everything on their plans.

Did you miss the part where Blizzard explicitly said that Necromancer was folded into the DK class, and that the Death Knight IS the death class of WoW?

You mean the same way the Warlock is the Fel class that folded in Demon Hunter abilities and all its themes, putting the proverbial nail in the coffin for Demon Hunters?

Is this explicitly what you are talking about?

[username993720]

Yeah, but here's the difference, in the case of the expansion classes (DKs, Monks, DHs) Blizzard made it quite clear that there were multiples of that class. There were DKs who were not Arthas who could use Necromancy. There were Demon Hunters who were not Illidan who could use metamorphosis. There were Monks who were not Chen Stormstout who had martial arts abilities.

There are no Dark Rangers besides Sylvanas who have Banshee powers. Why? Because Sylvanas has a unique origin which gave her those Banshee powers, and Dark Rangers she has create since do NOT have Banshee powers. To further drive this point home, Dark Rangers appeared in the Hunter class hall, indicating that they were in fact a variety of Hunter.



If someone wants to play as a Blademaster, why aren't they simply playing an Arms Warrior with Bladestorm? Yes, you're missing Windwalk and Mirror Image, but you have everything else that makes a Blademaster what it is. If you want to play an assassin who sneaks up on people and kills them, they can roll a Rogue. It really isn't about individual abilities, it's about themes.



So what you're saying is that in order to play a Tinker I have to max out Engineering and play about 5 classes at once, yet for you to play a bow user who shoots magical arrows, you only need to roll a Hunter? That doesn't seem balanced at all.

Anya Eversong; Clea Deathstrider: Wailing Arrow — A deafening banshee's wail erupts from the arrow's impact, inflicting Shadow damage and silencing nearby enemies; Cyndia Hawkspear.

I can also say they are Banshees because the Banshee had a Posession ability and the Dark Ranger had a Charm ability.

I can say that Sylvanas is not a Banshee, because she doesn't have the Anti-magic Shell ability of Banshees. I can be nitpicky as well.

I can argue that Sylvanas is not a Banshee. Banshees are incorporeal undead elf women, and Sylvanas regained her physical body. so, technically, she is not a Banshee. being called the Banshee Queen doesn't make her a Banshee, like being called the Lich King doesn't make you a Lich. possessing the ability to scream does not necessarily make you a Banshee. Priests have a Psychic Scream ability. just like how the Lich King using Frost abilities does not make him a Lich.

You are being spiteful. i can be too.

Not true. Monks from other races did not use Pandaren martial arts (Auchenai and Scarlet Crusade). Chen and Mojo Stormstouts were unique in that department.

Sisterhood of Elune was in the Priest order hall. when you don't have where to put them, you put them in the closest thing possible. that's why Warlocks had the Metamorphosis and Death Coil abilities. not because they were Demon Hunters or Death Knights. but, because they were the closest thing possible. That's, also, why Shamans have Shadow Hunter abilities, Rogues have Warden abilities, Warriors have Blademaster abilities, Hunters have Dark Ranger/Priestess of the Moon/Sea Witch abilities, Engineers have Tinker abilities and Alchemists have Alchemists abilities. Because they are the closest thing possible, not because they fill that role. If it was the case, we would never have Death Knights or Demon Hunters.

It is about abilities. I could tell you go play a Rogue and use Illidan's Glaive if you want to be a Demon Hunter. i could tell you to be a Warlock and use Metamorphosis (back in the day) if you wanted to be a Demon Hunter. i could tell you, be a Warlock and pretend you are summoning undead, or be a Warrior and wear the Dreadnaught gear if you want to be a Death Knight. I could tell you be a Rogue or a Warrior and equip invisible fist weapons if you want to be a Monk. simple answer - it just doesn't do.
as for the abilities, there are way more than are presented on the Warcraft 3 hero units (see: Samuro, Maiev, Sylvanas, Tyrande and Gazlow on Heroes of the Storm). if one or two abilities would have sufficed, Demon Hunters wouldn't need two whole specs, Death Knight would not need 3 specs and Pandaren wouldn't need 3 specs. just strap a couple of abilities, dress them accordingly and there you go. Apparently, you would be satisfied with that.

Yes, just take Engineering. That's exactly the kind of argument you are using with me. and don't forget that the Hunter class does not have the Starfall ability of the Priestess of the Moon (Druids have it), Hunters do not have the Mana shield and Forked Lightning of a Sea Witch (Mages and Shamans have it) and Hunters do not have the Life Drain, Silence and Charm abilities of a Dark Ranger (Warlocks and Priests have it). So, yes, according to you i'll have to play about 5 classes at once to be any of them.

engineering is a profession not a class.
also blizzard has said DK is the necromancer class.

comparing apples to oranges.

How would Teriz say it?: "it's good enough. just take up engineering and use your imagination to pretend you are a fully-fledged Tinker. who needs a Tinker class when engineering has Tinkering (Enchantments)".

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Tinker_(engineering)

It is, literally, called "Tinker". so, no need to add a Tinker Class (sarcasm).

does engineering let me fight in a steampunk mech?

How would Teriz describe it?: "Just acquire a G.M.O.D mount and pretend you're using a mech suit. It doesn't matter that it does not have combat abilities, just use your imagination. that would, surely, satisfy the fantasy".

And yes, i know he is advocating for Tinkers. but, he likes to be a smartass.

they are literally the 2 tech races. their whole society is based around tech, so it was make sense to only limit Tinker to those 2 races.

You forget about Dwarves and Mechagnomes. https://wow.gamepedia.com/Tinker

Based on what I saw from the Nathanos cinematic, Tyrande's Night Warrior would be better served as a DH 3rd spec.

It was, which is why it had to be taken from Warlocks in order for Demon Hunters to be a class in the game.

Because they have no plan to ever release a Necromancer or Dark Ranger class.

What the fuck is this bullshit? Night Warrior being a 3rd Demon Hunter spec because she uses glaives? why not make it a Warden too? Tyrande is clearly a pumped-up version of a Priestess of the Moon. She uses Moon abilities, and an Owl scout, not Fel.

Same can be said about Dark Rangers, Priestess of the Moon, Sea Witch, Shadow Hunter, Warden and Blademaster. just take out their abilities from the Hunter, Shaman, Mage, Warrior, Rogue, Priest and Druid and give it to them. If it's good enough to be taken out of the Warlock repertoire to be given to the Demon Hunter, then it is good enough for them.

Who says it? do you work for Blizzard? do you have intel on their plans? Do not speak on their behalf.

Yeah, I understand the WoW player base quite well.

Look, the best way to implement the Tinker class is to keep them confined to Goblins, Vulpera, Gnomes, and Mechagnomes. Why? Because that way they're limited to races where their thematics make the most sense, and they don't alter the texture of the game. Goblins and Gnomes are already completely enveloped into the technology theme, the other races are not, especially not Goblin/Gnome tech. It's one thing to see a Goblin in a Shredder mech walking around and doing stuff. It's another thing to see an Orc, Blood Elf, or Draenei inside a goblin shredder doing stuff. This is why I believe Blizzard been slowly introducing the Tinker concept over the course of multiple expansions to slowly have people get used to the idea of a technology class. It started with Helix Blackfuse in MoP and its been working its way up in WoD, Legion, and BFA. But it's been almost entirely Goblin and Gnomes they've been doing that with.

Now with that said, if Blizzard is willing to create an entirely different model and animation set for Nightborne and Draenei artificers, I'm all for it.

You forget about Dwarves. and Vulpera are not Tech inclined. they are Alchemists. know your lore.