Afrasiabi left Blizzard?

[SirBeef]

I'm sure the art team does get a large amount of money. Is it enough to somehow effect or take away from development in other areas? I'd find that difficult to believe, given the overall size and wealth of Blizzard.

And the overwhelming budget of WoW. There is no doubt in my mind that they have the largest out of all the departments, because what the art team does in any game takes the most amount of people and time.

[TheRevenantHero]

I don't notice that, no. In fact, it makes me wonder how long you've been playing WoW. The low point of lore and writing in WoW is Cataclysm, closely followed by WoD, but WoD wasn't actually a fuck-up of writing. Rather writers were having to desperately re-write and retcon the designer/director-level decision to change from being a time-travel expansion, which was the original plan for WoD, to become an alternate universe expansion, long after it had gone into production. I don't think you even know when she started, which was mid-Legion. I feel like gender does come in because other senior writers haven't got the same sort of shit Golden has, even though they're clearly less experienced and less competent, even when the writing has been total and utter juvenile trash like pretty much all of launch Cataclysm. Maybe not, maybe it's just fame though - she is better known, because she's written merchandised books for decades.

And people like you, possible even literally you, have also tried to claim Danuser is responsible for all the problems. Claiming the Sylvanas fixation is him, Nathanos is his "self-insert" and similar nonsense. So you can't have it both ways. You can't reasonably blame the boss AND then blame the people who work for him for doing what they're told re: lore direction. It my boss says we're doing X, I can say "Are you sure that's a good idea?" but ultimately it's a job, so I have to do what I'm told.

In terms of dialogue and small-scale story, BfA is better written than most previous expansions. That's not even really arguable. In terms of overall lore? Well, that's more subjective. Certainly SL seems to be well-written too and so far the lore seems to be solid. I think the biggest problem BfA had wasn't even lore or writing, it was presentation. The story was told in a disjointed way and wasn't easy to mentally integrate. That's a complex problem that doesn't come down to any individual, but ultimately the buck stops with the game director.

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I just don't get why you think they'll be worse though. Just general pessimism/cynicism? If so, fair enough, but my experience of this sort of changeover is that it may well lead to improvement. I don't think we know who the replacement is, but it's hard to imagine someone with more experience and qualifications doing a worse job than Afrasiabi. Indeed, if what people think is correct, and Afrasiabi had little influence on SL (he appears not to be credited as Creative Director for it), maybe they don't even a need a separate Creative Director (depending on the structure it can be a very important position or a largely meaningless one). So maybe he won't even replaced?

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I know a couple of people who were CSRs (which is probably what you mean by GMs, but the fact that you say GM makes me a bit suspicious you're making this up or overstating your relationship with them) for Blizzard, and who both quit around 2010, and they had very similar stories re: being treated pretty poorly by Blizzard. So the idea that this is a new thing is pretty fanciful.

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I kind of suspect he was. At the time the changes happened, he was probably kind of at the peak of his influence, and I don't think we've seen anyone else really come out strongly in favour of no flying, they all seem to just say it's the approach they're taking. No accident, I suspect, that SL, the first expansion he allegedly hasn't had (as much?) influence on since WoD, seems to be likely to give us flying sooner and easier. As I've said before, I'd be unsurprised if we saw a different approach to flying in 10.0.

After seeing you say that BfA has better writing than other expansions, I can't really take you seriously.

[SirCowdog]

The trouble with Jobs' ideas is that they were frequently wild fantasies with no basis in reality (c.f. his obsession with alternative medicine, long predating his illness), and his ideas about how companies operate seem to be a case of him extending specific experiences into generalities whilst entirely lacking the breadth of experience and/or research which would be required to do so. Believing him is essentially religious-style belief, faith-based rather than rational.

Okay, but being unhappy and deciding to go make a WoW-killer is something Blizzard employees have been doing since LITERALLY day 1 of WoW. Half the people who made Red 5 and Firefall were unhappy senior Blizzard employees (some allegedly unhappy because of Afrasiabi, topically!). That was day 1, or thereabouts.

I don't credit any single instance for my opinion on the matter. It's more of a bunch of little things all adding up and pointing in the same direction.

You don't have to agree or anything. These are just my overall feelings on the direction of the company in a general sense. I'll be just as happy as the next guy if WoW and other Blizzard titles get back more towards the quality and player-friendly games they used to be. We;re seeing a little little bit of that in Shadowlands. But we're also seeing some pretty heavy metric/engagement-figure driven decisions as well.

Given how bad BfA was in a lot of respects, it's going to be difficult for SL to not be an overall improvement. But we'll have to wait and see how things go over the next year and a half. With Diablo Immortal being the only real new game coming out of Blizzard(that's not even a new IP), and nothing else really on the horizon, I'd say a lot rides on the performance of SL.

I know there've been a couple of people who impressed me, but I can't remember names. One of them was an Asian dude.

I think I know who you're talking about. But I thought he was moved to another project shortly after? Maybe I'm misremembering. I'll see if I can find it. Or maybe someone else in the thread can help us out.

All I'll say about that guy is that I hope he's one of the people who worked on Reaper of Souls, and not the base game. XD

Re: the Maw, that objection seems pretty bizarre to me. If you're unwilling to accept anything except 100% flying 100% of the time, WoW is not the game for you, and literally never has been. A better future for the game than either "no flying until X" or "100% flying 100% of the time" would be a more varied and nuanced approach, which would potentially include zones like the Maw, but also zones which were flying from day 1.

I don't know why people keep misunderstanding my position on flight. We have a thread for that already, so make your replies there. But suffice to say, I do not, nir have I ever asked for flying 100% of the time.

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And the overwhelming budget of WoW. There is no doubt in my mind that they have the largest out of all the departments, because what the art team does in any game takes the most amount of people and time.

The real question I would like to ask, then, is: If having a larger budget allows the art team to do such amazing things, wouldn't it stand to reason that giving other teams(like class or game balance or whatever) more money would also generate a similar effect?

That's probably not a direct comparison. Money doesn't always equate to success for things like this.

[Kralljin]

I'm sure the art team does get a large amount of money. Is it enough to somehow effect or take away from development in other areas? I'd find that difficult to believe, given the overall size and wealth of Blizzard.

The budget is still finite and could be allocated to other areas where it actually impacts the gameplay itself, rather than just how things look.

Kaleiki said that the class team for example is rather small, i guess one or two more people working there could smooth things out, especially on the balance front.
Unless one wants to humor the idea that Blizzard balance is in fact good enough and doesn't even need more frequent updates.

And when looking how Blizzard has stepped up in the art department in the last few years, it has grown without question.
Again, WoW team is over 230 heads big, the art certainly represents a sizeable portion of that.

[therealbowser]

BREAKING: People change jobs sometimes

Him changing jobs isn't odd, Blizzard hiding that information is odd. Not sure why this is difficult to understand.

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Yeah, with regards to the story he’s probably one of the ones I’m happiest to see the back of. Now if we could only get rid of Danuser, Golden, Copeland, Roux and the other contractors.

I mean is there literally anyone that people don't hate? As long as WoW is "bad" people are going to want everyone to get fired in hopes of things changing. But that's not how it works, lol.

Just fire everyone and hire a completely new staff. Nothing will change, but at least that will prevent scapegoats from being a thing for a week or so, and we can just acknowledge that the game's direction has faults rather than the design of the game.

PS: I don't care about Afrasiabi, but I'm tired of seeing people blame someone then someone else then someone else. Like there always has to be someone at fault. "OMG Metzen ruined the game." "OMG Ghostcrawler ruined the game." "OMG Golden ruined the game." I'm not even sure who the next scapegoat would be.

The only person I actively dislike is Ion, and that's just because he has an obnoxious attitude and likes to think he knows the game better than the community does, which leads to a lot of bad content that he gets obsessively stuck up on. Doesn't mean I think he's the sole problem or that he should get fired/etc, no idea why people obsess over this so much.

[HitRefresh]

He wanted Garrosh to be a great warchief and was one of the only writers to write him so back in Cataclysm.
By the way, is there any real confirmation of him leaving?

Shadowlands credits is at least confirmation he was not creative director on WoW.

[Trumpcat]

Whatever happened both sides agreed to be quiet, obviously.

Regardless of the terms of which he left, if he did, they don't want that publicity prior SL launch.

A couple of years ago I was given a lofty premium to agree to not talk about the conditions in which I left my company and I know of other people who had similar experiences in other places. It is not uncommon.

Also, do we expect every WoW developer to spend their life working on it?

[SirBeef]

I don't credit any single instance for my opinion on the matter. It's more of a bunch of little things all adding up and pointing in the same direction.

You don't have to agree or anything. These are just my overall feelings on the direction of the company in a general sense. I'll be just as happy as the next guy if WoW and other Blizzard titles get back more towards the quality and player-friendly games they used to be. We;re seeing a little little bit of that in Shadowlands. But we're also seeing some pretty heavy metric/engagement-figure driven decisions as well.

Given how bad BfA was in a lot of respects, it's going to be difficult for SL to not be an overall improvement. But we'll have to wait and see how things go over the next year and a half. With Diablo Immortal being the only real new game coming out of Blizzard(that's not even a new IP), and nothing else really on the horizon, I'd say a lot rides on the performance of SL.



I think I know who you're talking about. But I thought he was moved to another project shortly after? Maybe I'm misremembering. I'll see if I can find it. Or maybe someone else in the thread can help us out.

All I'll say about that guy is that I hope he's one of the people who worked on Reaper of Souls, and not the base game. XD




I don't know why people keep misunderstanding my position on flight. We have a thread for that already, so make your replies there. But suffice to say, I do not, nir have I ever asked for flying 100% of the time.

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The real question I would like to ask, then, is: If having a larger budget allows the art team to do such amazing things, wouldn't it stand to reason that giving other teams(like class or game balance or whatever) more money would also generate a similar effect?

That's probably not a direct comparison. Money doesn't always equate to success for things like this.

True. They also have a don't rock the boat mentality when it comes to balancing. If they constantly balance, as the one poster you quoted, players would complain even more as the uncertainty of each class is now in question each month. It may also be harder to balance things given all the variables like playstyles, skill levels, and how simple vs complex different classes and specs are.

Sure the armchair dev can say just tweak the numbers, but it's not always that easy. And who knows, maybe they pick favorites.

[Icelin]

Also, do we expect every WoW developer to spend their life working on it?

If people want to leave on their own accord there is nothing wrong with this. I remember saying the same thing about a man who made a Youtube video about it and him not agreeing with the direction the game was going.

Ironically I was reading something about work conditions this week called, "working wounded" by Bob Rosner

Now if these people want to leave on their own accord. Again, this is fine. It just gives me a different impression when Morhaime retires and then starts another company. Same with some of the other employees leaving. I think the only ones who know what is really going on. Are not able to say anything. So it's really just speculation on everyone's part. Sucks they lost another person. Garrosh was pretty fun around those times. I truly hope he left his job because it's what he wanted.

"Do we expect every WoW developer to spend the rest of their life on this franchise?"
Well only if they want to.

[Gadzooks]

From what I understand, Steve Danuser is essentially the new Metzen (and also the new Afrasiabi, 2-in-1!) and the "keeper of the vision" for Warcraft. He will likely get a new title reflecting this more accurately soon.

Sorry to hear that. I left the door open to return to WoW when I got the SL beta, but no, not interested. Story was a big part of it. Danuser is awful, if he's responsible for most of it.

Danuser will never be at the level of Metzen. Period. And honestly, he's creepy.

WoW is truly dead to me if he's the new Creative Director and story guy. This would explain a lot, actually. It would explain why SL is dull, uninteresting, and shallow.

[Relapses]

Sorry to hear that. I left the door open to return to WoW when I got the SL beta, but no, not interested. Story was a big part of it. Danuser is awful, if he's responsible for most of it.

Danuser will never be at the level of Metzen. Period. And honestly, he's creepy.

WoW is truly dead to me if he's the new Creative Director and story guy. This would explain a lot, actually. It would explain why SL is dull, uninteresting, and shallow.

You're entitled to your opinion but absolutely nothing about WoW's story was groundbreaking even when Metzen was in charge. And I get different strokes for different folks but if story elements are your motivating factor for playing a WoW expansions I feel genuinely sorry for you.

[MoanaLisa]

Him changing jobs isn't odd, Blizzard hiding that information is odd. Not sure why this is difficult to understand.

We don't know this but it's not odd at all if they fired him for cause. Any corporate discussion about something like that opens the door to legal proceedings. It's easier and safer legally to simply say nothing in that case. And by nothing I mean really nothing; not even acknowledging that anything has changed.

I worked in some IT shops where desks were cleared and people stopped showing up and there wasn't a memo circulated to staff or even team members. There was often some sort of informal very short conversation from a supervisor or manager that "X is no longer with the company" (that was it in its entirety) along with a warning to not share any of that outside the department, much less off the campus.

So it's not entirely surprising.

AGAIN: We don't know that anything like this happened. But terminations for cause are very often classified as non-events.

[Aeula]

I can't tell you how I know, not that people will trust me as this is the internet(specifically mmo-c) but he was released because of Sexual Harassment back in March.

The picture I posted shows that he left in June so...

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Him changing jobs isn't odd, Blizzard hiding that information is odd. Not sure why this is difficult to understand.

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I mean is there literally anyone that people don't hate? As long as WoW is "bad" people are going to want everyone to get fired in hopes of things changing. But that's not how it works, lol.

Just fire everyone and hire a completely new staff. Nothing will change, but at least that will prevent scapegoats from being a thing for a week or so, and we can just acknowledge that the game's direction has faults rather than the design of the game.

PS: I don't care about Afrasiabi, but I'm tired of seeing people blame someone then someone else then someone else. Like there always has to be someone at fault. "OMG Metzen ruined the game." "OMG Ghostcrawler ruined the game." "OMG Golden ruined the game." I'm not even sure who the next scapegoat would be.

The only person I actively dislike is Ion, and that's just because he has an obnoxious attitude and likes to think he knows the game better than the community does, which leads to a lot of bad content that he gets obsessively stuck up on. Doesn't mean I think he's the sole problem or that he should get fired/etc, no idea why people obsess over this so much.

I just want the writers gone.

[Vorkreist]

If he left on bad terms doesn't mean it is Blizzards fault.

The historical record points otherwise. Actilizzard drove away all the old talent and generally treats everyone like shit.

[Zmagoslav]

BREAKING: People change jobs sometimes

And in IT "sometimes" means very frequently.

[SirCowdog]

I just want the writers gone.

Honestly....I'd settle for putting up with the same writers, if they %&$(!! writing was actually in the game instead of in a book somewhere. :/

[ilgynoth]

I'm glad this guy is gone. He was responsable for BfA's Story and for me going through a horde civil war AGAIN. Felt like playing MoP just with different names.
And I paid for that shit. So screw this guy.

[Zyky]

The picture I posted shows that he left in June so...

And I can tell you with certainty he was fired in March.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The historical record points otherwise. Actilizzard drove away all the old talent and generally treats everyone like shit.

Based on what? We have had a ton of people leave and not one has said everyone is treated like shit where are people getting this from?

[Relapses]

And I can tell you with certainty he was fired in March.

Are you sure it was March? I just DM'd Activision this question on Twitter and they responded with a coupon code for Call of Duty so your timeline isn't adding up.

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Based on what? We have had a ton of people leave and not one has said everyone is treated like shit where are people getting this from?

This is easy to explain. See, Blizzard makes subpar products. And subpar products are only made by miserable employees. This is common sense. It's written somewhere in the Bible.