Fat bias with Kul Tiran and Proudmoore family?

[Hitei]

Would you honestly say Cyron or Rosaline are as important as Jaina or Ashvane...? They are side characters at best.

Cyrus is fairly important in the story, being the only reason that the Alliance is even able to stay in Kul Tiras and have the Kul Tirans join the Alliance rather than the PC just rotting away in prison, the primary one working against Ashvane, and the only reason the PC knows about or helps Drustvar or Stormsong.

[qwerty123456]

Kul 'Tiran are large and obese because of their Drust heritage. It stands to reason if we met 2 people in a family that don't have those traits that the rest of the family wouldn't have them either.

And as far as I can remember there weren't any skinny meth humans in the family either. Clearly there is a bias against thin people !

[Queen of Hamsters]

Skinny character face tanks a dragon: - Seems reasonable.
Fat character punches another character some yards away, stunning them: - WHAT IS THIS MADNESS MUH REALISM REEEEEEE

Seriously, people. It's.A.Game. And no matter how one slices it, most of the large Kul Tirans that we meet, are NOT evil. Most of the evil characters in this game, are dudebros and sexdolls, or animal races...

I do be wanting better muscle tone on female KT though...

OT: To the poster that I'm sure is once again posting about me:

Aren't you too busy with writing down the mathematical formula proving how SL is already the greatest expansion to any game ever and that Blizzard is god to have enough time to spare to straw-man the OP like that? Or is it just so obvious that the formula basically writes itself?

And for the record, I don't even agree with the OP.

Nope, but apparently you're very VERY busy following me around in various threads.

You're also so single-minded that you completely ignore any post I make that's critical, and there's been SO many this expansion, just to jump at calling me a fanboy whenever you get the chance. Pathetic behaviour at best, a bit scary at worst. Talk about self-righteousness and hypocritical manners.

Thanks to X for tipping me off to this behaviour.
_____________________________________________

That's all I have to say to said poster. If I'm wrong, it still belongs, but I got it on good authority that I'm not.

:End OT.

[[Apok]]

None of the skinny or fat kul titans are important/major characters.

The point is, message blizz is giving here is that fat = bad people (Priscilla) and sexy = good people (Proudmoores).

It's reaching at best it only portrays that message if that's the meaning you're looking for.

Similar how someone searching for meaning might see a rainbow and interpret it as an act of some higher power. Its a rainbow.

[gaymer77]

If you take a walk around Boralus, you'll also find Kul Tiran NPC's that are skinnier than the normal human player characters.

Your point is invalid.

And the skinnier KT is something players hoped would be released along with the chubby version as an option to have in customization (like straight back orc vs slouched orc). Even using your own logic that the ultra skinny KT exist, the Proudmoore family still doesn't use any version of the KT since they don't have the ultra skinny version of the KT either. Katherine Proudmoore would have been the easiest Proudmoore to use a KT body type and they chose instead to give her a Stormwind human body type.

None of the skinny or fat kul titans are important/major characters.

The point is, message blizz is giving here is that fat = bad people (Priscilla) and sexy = good people (Proudmoores).

It's simple. People want to take their lore characters seriously and generally want them to be good-looking. Also Tirasians aren't biologically different from Stormwind humans. They're just another human Kingdom. They only gave them an alternate model so Blizzard could sell them as an allied race. Every Tirasian character that appeared in the lore prior to BfA also wasn't obese.

The KT characters that appeared in WoW before BFA used the Stormwind human model because Blizzard hadn't decided to add KT into the game let alone add a chubbier version of a human model into the game giving it the name KT. Katherine Proudmoore was never portrayed in the game prior to BFA and she's very KT yet she still uses the Stormwind human model instead of the female KT model. They could have easily given her the KT model as it would have made sense and actually tied the aesthetic of the KT more into the Allied Race than using a Stormwind female model on her instead.

I mean it's a fantasy world where everyone's jacked so I don't know if ugly humans exist? Ashmane I guess?

Edit: not ashmane, the antagonist woman from BfA, I didn't play it

Her name was Ashvane but you were very close in what you called her.

You know very well what kind of image society (and the rude OP) has of "fat/obese people".

Um how am I being rude in pointing out obvious things? Also for many years I was a fat person so any image of fat/obese people I have is based on my own experience as being one.

The Kul’ Tiran, to me, aren’t fat.

And I like variety in a game.

True but for sake of argument I went with the word "fat" to differentiate between the thinner Stormwind human body type and what the KT were released with to be able to make as a character.

It's a valid point, I would've thought atleast her mother would use the bigger model with being ruler and all.

Of the Proudmoore family, Katherine would make the most sense to use the bigger model than a Stormwind human model. She was never shown in game anywhere. She is a KT. She lives in KT. The most obvious logic would be for her to look like the KT that the players got to make during BFA when KT got released. Instead, Blizzard decided to give her the basic Stormwind human model.

And as far as I can remember there weren't any skinny meth humans in the family either. Clearly there is a bias against thin people !

And the ultra skinny version of KT is something people wanted as well for the playable Allied Race. People wanted the option of the fatter one or the thinner one. Blizzard chose to give the players the fatter one not the skinnier one. That's kind of the point too. The ultra skinny and the fatter KT still do not match what the Proudmoore family looks like.

[Delano]

Use your eyeballs next time you go outside; you'll be shocked to find that humans are diverse and don't all have hourglass shaped bodies.

Hah, who am I kidding... outside.

[qwerty123456]

And the ultra skinny version of KT is something people wanted as well for the playable Allied Race. People wanted the option of the fatter one or the thinner one. Blizzard chose to give the players the fatter one not the skinnier one. That's kind of the point too. The ultra skinny and the fatter KT still do not match what the Proudmoore family looks like.

People didn't want skinny humans or morbidly obese human giants as options at least not at first. People wanted Vykrul but blizzard wanted a big fat model for future races. People then hoped we would get both options when Blizzard told us what crap we ere getting. And we already knew what multiple Proudmoore family members looked like it would be silly to assume 2 out of 5 of them were magically half overweight giants when the other 3 weren't.

[ReleaseDay]

Use your eyeballs next time you go outside; you'll be shocked to find that humans are diverse and don't all have hourglass shaped bodies.

Hah, who am I kidding... outside.

While true, that won't change the fact that 99,99% won't find fat people attractive.

[loras]

To me it seems very strange that there is someone out there that actually care about these things.

It’s a freakin MMORPG, just pick whatever combo race/class you like and play, it’s just a game to relax in the evening after a working day, no less, no more.

I would not overthink too much honestly.

...I'm literally explaining why things are the way they are, pretty much the opposite of overthinking.
Also i'm not sure how the race/class comment relates to anything here, so i think that perhaps you took me for another or misunderstood my post.

- - - Updated - - -

While true, that won't change the fact that 99,99% won't find fat people attractive.

Depends on culture, local circumstances and it varies with time too.

In some cultures it is considered attractive, and people with less certainty about food tend to be drawn to a lady who could outlast some hunger without serious damage. Lastly in ages past it was often viewed as a sign of wealth and attractiveness.

Mind you that i do not mean to excuse unhealthily large people in any way, but it's ususlly best to be realistic about things and refrain from making overly wide statements with random percentages plucked from nowhere.

Personally i'm not a fun of chubbiness either, but i've the luxury of a voracious energy appetite meaning i can easily lose weight.

[Vilendor]

Nice logic but I'm not fat. Good try though.

I never said you are fat. Usually the professional victims have nothing to do with the topic they campaign for. Look at any SJW...

[Soon-TM]

Although I think I get OP's point (slender Proudmoores = good, fat Ashvane = bad), it still seems a bit far-fetched. Although on second thought, Blizzard has been doing something like that since MoP: pretty Alliance = good, ugly Horde = bad.

Somewhat off topic, but I really dig dem KT fatties. They're pretty much the only Alliance race (aside from Draenei) I can play without falling asleep on the keyboard.

[Razion]

It would be pretty neat if Jaina was a quarter Vrykul/Drust, but I'm willing to bet that isn't the case.
Would've been an interesting twist if the Proudmoores were related to Gorak Tul though.

[Issalice]

I was thinking about this the other day actually. And what about Gallywix? Fat goblins would be awesome

[LuminaL]

they are too woke for this. look we have 5 new major characters and 3 of them are females who are good and 2 of them are evil male characters.

[Skorpionss]

OK hear me out on this one because it may take some thinking hardly to understand but it makes perfect sense to me (and you) once you see what I'm talking about.

So its no hidden fact that most Western cultures view a slender body as more attractive than one that is chubby or even fat. Yes some cultures (ie Latin or black cultures) may view certain parts of the female anatomy as more desirable (ie fuller hips or asses) but the majority of Western cultures see women who aren't "skinny" as unattractive because they are "fat". World of Warcraft is a game that primarily has been developed in a Western culture company even though the game is a globally played game reaching many different cultures. More specifically World of Warcraft is a game developed by Americans that gets a worldwide release to players but is in the end developed by an American company. No one can argue that the American culture is all about fat shaming anyone who doesn't fit into the "fit" category.

That being said, let's take a look at some interesting facts about the game. Jaina Proudmoore, Katherine Proudmoore, Daelin Proudmoore, Tandred Proudmoore, and Derek Proudmoore are all Kul Tiran not Stormwind/Lordaeron humans. Not one of them use the Kul Tiran models at all. Jaina can be excused as she has been in the game since vanilla and there were no different body model types for Kul Tiran vs Stormwind/Lordaeron humans. The rest didn't arrive in the actual game (not speaking lore but in the game itself) until BFA when the Kul Tiran had already been established. Yes I could understand a possible need or desire to have the men appear to be more fit like the Stormwind/Lordaeron human men instead of the chubby Kul Tiran men but why not have Katherine at least have the body style of a female Kul Tiran. I'm not saying they needed to go all chubby like Priscilla Ashvane since she has her own unique character model which oddly enough is chubbier than a female Kul Tiran while the leaders and offspring of the leaders of the Kul Tiran are all more slender built.

So do you think that the Proudmoore family who are Kul Tiran don't use the Kul Tiran character models because of a fat bias that the developers at Blizzard have given they have Western beliefs because of them being Americans?

The only reason kul'tirans are fat is because the devs wanted diversity and instead of making taller humans (vrykul) they made fatter ones... They could have been anything really (I was hoping for the really skinny ones cause they look awesome as rogues/casters) as they are a new race that we hadn't interacted with before on a large scale.

[vincink]

I pay fifteen dollars a month to be entertained. I don't give a damn.

Of note: assuming (without evidence) that devs have a malicious bias against fat people. Nothing fallacious there, amirite?

[MikeBogina]

Kul'tirans(fat ones) is a big joke, like is there actually any notable ones? Make a fat playable race, but don actually have any notable ones, just normal beautiful skinny ones leading them.

It's kinda like how Turalyon is the leader of the LightForged or Alleria who looks more human is the leader of the Void Elves, or how prestine Calia is going to eventually be the leader of the Forsaken, or how Anduin is the leader of the Tauren(cause baine's a huge cuck)

There's a bias for favorable looking humans over everything else, probably why Worgens stay humans more... or why Humans make up more than 50% of important characters.

[gaymer77]

People didn't want skinny humans or morbidly obese human giants as options at least not at first. People wanted Vykrul but blizzard wanted a big fat model for future races. People then hoped we would get both options when Blizzard told us what crap we ere getting. And we already knew what multiple Proudmoore family members looked like it would be silly to assume 2 out of 5 of them were magically half overweight giants when the other 3 weren't.

That's the thing though. The Proudmoore family doesn't have EITHER of the "new" models which were used for Kul Tiran people. All 5 of them use the Stormwind human model we've had in the game since vanilla launched. I get that players wanted a Vykrul playable but given the announcement of BFA and the major races were Zandalari and Kul Tiran, we knew those two races would eventually become playable as an allied race. The only Proudmoores we saw before BFA were Jaina who used a Stormwind human model because Blizzard didn't get her a unique character model body type and Daelen who was only seen a few expansions into the game and was essentially just a ghost not an actual NPC of any type. Prior to that we never saw Derek, Katherine, or Tanred anywhere in the game. They could have easily used an actual KT body type for any of those 3 or even Daelen since Daelen was never really used in game either. Changing Jaina to be either of the KT body models would bring major backlash from the community for "changing her" as an already established character. I mean look at the various opinions people had of Jaina when she simply changed clothes and her hair style. Making her get KT skinny or KT fat would have brought about so much anger from the WoW community. Katherine could have easily been made into the KT skinny model or KT chubby model and it make sense since we had never once seen her in the game. Hell even Tanred could have been made into a skinny KT model and it make sense since he was never seen or spoke of as being a war hero.

The only reason kul'tirans are fat is because the devs wanted diversity and instead of making taller humans (vrykul) they made fatter ones... They could have been anything really (I was hoping for the really skinny ones cause they look awesome as rogues/casters) as they are a new race that we hadn't interacted with before on a large scale.

This is true but the KT race was introduced with BFA which is the same time we, the players, were introduced to the other 4 Proudmoores so they could have made any or all of the other Proudmoores into the real KT model but chose instead to make the newly added to the game Proudmoores look like Stormwind humans. Of the whole Proudmoore family, Katherine would make the most obvious choice for having a KT body type since she's the ruler of the KT who doesn't go out and see combat. Because she doesn't go out and engage in combat means she could have more weight on her than the Proudmoore men who have been out in war which would mean they might have a leaner build than the average KT man would. But I do agree with you on the skinny KT would look amazing as rogues or casters. That's one of the reasons why people were hoping the KT would have customization to have the skinny or chubby body types as the created KT allied race similar to how orcs have the option to be upright or hunched over in the creation screen.

[Lighthope]

So its no hidden fact that most Western cultures view a slender body as more attractive than one that is chubby or even fat.

Isn't Final Fantasy Japanese and Guild Wars Korean? They both have very fit characters.

I think if you are out adventuring and fighting monsters all day, your body would be less inclined to be "American".

[qwerty123456]

That's the thing though. The Proudmoore family doesn't have EITHER of the "new" models which were used for Kul Tiran people. All 5 of them use the Stormwind human model we've had in the game since vanilla launched. I get that players wanted a Vykrul playable but given the announcement of BFA and the major races were Zandalari and Kul Tiran, we knew those two races would eventually become playable as an allied race. The only Proudmoores we saw before BFA were Jaina who used a Stormwind human model because Blizzard didn't get her a unique character model body type and Daelen who was only seen a few expansions into the game and was essentially just a ghost not an actual NPC of any type. Prior to that we never saw Derek, Katherine, or Tanred anywhere in the game. They could have easily used an actual KT body type for any of those 3 or even Daelen since Daelen was never really used in game either. Changing Jaina to be either of the KT body models would bring major backlash from the community for "changing her" as an already established character. I mean look at the various opinions people had of Jaina when she simply changed clothes and her hair style. Making her get KT skinny or KT fat would have brought about so much anger from the WoW community. Katherine could have easily been made into the KT skinny model or KT chubby model and it make sense since we had never once seen her in the game. Hell even Tanred could have been made into a skinny KT model and it make sense since he was never seen or spoke of as being a war hero.



This is true but the KT race was introduced with BFA which is the same time we, the players, were introduced to the other 4 Proudmoores so they could have made any or all of the other Proudmoores into the real KT model but chose instead to make the newly added to the game Proudmoores look like Stormwind humans. Of the whole Proudmoore family, Katherine would make the most obvious choice for having a KT body type since she's the ruler of the KT who doesn't go out and see combat. Because she doesn't go out and engage in combat means she could have more weight on her than the Proudmoore men who have been out in war which would mean they might have a leaner build than the average KT man would. But I do agree with you on the skinny KT would look amazing as rogues or casters. That's one of the reasons why people were hoping the KT would have customization to have the skinny or chubby body types as the created KT allied race similar to how orcs have the option to be upright or hunched over in the creation screen.

Literally Kul Tirians were normal humans for like 25 years before BFA them leaving all the known ones normal humans at least makes it plausible why nobody has mentioned fat giants before. Also there were tons of regular looking Kul Tirans all over the zones.

But the fat giant humans aren't just fat. They have Drust ancestry. Also none of the Proudmoores were ever described as giants or fat. Why would Jaina and her dad be normal humans but the rest have Drust Ancestry? And lets just say for a second his ghost shrunk. Why on earth would the statue in Stormwind of him be of a normal dude? And do they need to retcon him in Warcraft 3 also? Also why would her dad bone an overweight giant? He was the ruler of Kul Tiras of course he is going to go for a hot piece of ass. And the skinny humans are for representing weaselly and/or poor/malnurished people. Unless Katherine and the living son had been locked up for years before we got there it makes no sense for any of the family to be skinny humans either.

Also if all Kul Tiran's are bigger than orcs (esp the females) then why on earth didn't they just Roflstomp em into the ground when they have greater size, strength, and technology? It makes sense that big KT's are a rarity with the player ones all just being big to differentiate them from normal humans.