Why is there no challenge in questing?

[oldgeezer]

Actually, I went into questing with Mythic battle for dazar'alor gear because that's when I last played WoW. I replaced all my gear with quest rewards as soon as I got them. So I'm now wearing all the gear that Blizzard intended me to wear, even the weapons. Still no challenge.

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What a ridiculous idea. I've never understood this gimp yourself to make the game a certain way mentality. So I should forfeit the enjoyment of all quests rewards because I made a thread about wanting at least SOME challenge in questing?

Yes, if you want to make the game harder for yourself. But perhaps you really want to make it harder for others, however?

[razorpax]

“This is my opinion”
“Why is there no challenge”

Wrong way to word that bud but the challenge is there is you aren’t a geared turbo nerd in heirlooms or previous expansion heroic raid loot

[chiddie]

I feel like every thread I make requires a disclaimer, so here it is again: I love WoW. I've been playing it since I was 13 in early TBC. This is my opinion. You have yours. Let's have a discussion. I'm not attacking your very soul just because I disgaree.

Now, I ask you honestly, do you enjoy questing? I find myself asking more and more...why don't mobs hit hard? I really don't understand why Blizzard even make mobs charge up big attacks when they don't even take 10% off your health. I've stood in things I shouldn't stand in countless time just to try and feel like I'm atleast in some kind of danger. Why go to the effort of animating things you apparently should move out of, when you don't need to move out at all?

Maybe that's what they're going for now, and I'm sure a lot of people like a relaxing experience. But what is so wrong with encouraging a little thought? Instead of pulling mobs without a care in the world, why not turn questing from a brain dead slog into something that can actually keep you on your toes. I'm not asking for a brutal challenge...I'm asking for any challenge at all. It's not hard to move out of the kind of things quest mobs throw at you. Why shouldn't those things take atleast 25% of your health off?

Every second mob should charge up an attack that you have to move out of, or casts something you NEED to interrupt or you lose 25-50% of your health. Because, why not? Why must questing be pulling mobs and doing the same rotation over and over just waiting till they die. Can you really be honest and say you enjoy when you pull an extra mob in this game? It's just a chore because it's mindless.

MAKE ME MOVE OUT OF SOMETHING. Rares and elites can be soloed. What is that? Wouldn't you like some other kind of combat than just seeing a mob, running over to it and pressing the same buttons you have before while standing still until its dead without any threats to your character whatsoever?

They don’t hit too hard because depending on the class you have no way to avoid the damage (and even in case it’s once in a while). You can’t roll. You can’t use a shield effectively to constantly deny damage, both physical and magic. You can’t parry. You can’t riposte (yes, hello Dark Souls). You can sometimes kite and that’s all.

With this design, in which basically you win only by outdamaging the mobs, a punishing combat style makes no sense, it would be only frustrating. If I constantly die questing because mobs hit too hard and I can’t do much about that, dying every pull or if you pull 2 mobs linked or by mistake would be annoying.

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Seriously? Think about the last time a mob charged up an attack in a cone that the devs clearly indicate you should move out of. Think how easy it was to sidestep it. How long it took to charge up. And you equate that to having 'gone a few rounds with Ali or Frasier.'

Making mobs pose at least SOME kind of threat isn't going to scare people away. Or shouldn't.

Edit: Do you enjoy being invincible? To me it's boring.

As long has enemy skills (and ours) have tracking, it will be boring regardless the damage.

That’s also why people basically fight not moving at all, apart from occasional kiting.

[Osmeric]

Because the devs don't want to be fired.

[Philomene]

Questing in WoW was okay-ish by 2004 standards but nowadays it's utterly boring. Making it challenging isn't going to make it interesting. Actually making it harder will just make it even more a chore than it already is. I'd rather have difficulty in interesting and engaging content instead of just increasing world enemies HP and damage by 300% just to make it "difficult". It's just going to make it even more boring and tedious.

[God Save The King]

Like others have mentioned, your issue is with your gear. At level 49, BFA gives you items around ilvl ~58. Given how quickly you level up and how your gear won't all be ilvl 58 at level 50, Shadowlands needs to be tuned for someone around ilvl 52-54 I'd imagine (possibly lower). Checking out my alt that I leveled in the last few days of prepatch they are ilvl 54. Mythic Ny'alotha gave ilvl 130 with 140 from the last 2 bosses. Azerite would be 135/145. Neck and cloak also got pretty high (~150 and 155 respectively). It's not unreasonable for someone who raided all of 8.3 to be ~135ilvl with everything, plus full sockets. My druid was ilvl 136 when I walked into Shadowlands.

Even a casual player around ilvl 100 would be massively overpowered in Shadowlands. Ilvl 50->100 isn't a doubling of power, it's orders of magnitude higher. The content is somewhat challenging for a fresh character with no gear. It being 'easy' is your 'reward' for raiding in 8.3. Most raids your reward is being able to do the next raid and push yourself harder. For the final raid, it's to go crazy and make leveling trivial.

[Baine]

I play WoW to relax, not to be significantly be challenged. It is why I stick mostly with questing.

[Eurhetemec]

Like others have mentioned, your issue is with your gear. At level 49, BFA gives you items around ilvl ~58. Given how quickly you level up and how your gear won't all be ilvl 58 at level 50, Shadowlands needs to be tuned for someone around ilvl 52-54 I'd imagine (possibly lower). Checking out my alt that I leveled in the last few days of prepatch they are ilvl 54. Mythic Ny'alotha gave ilvl 130 with 140 from the last 2 bosses. Azerite would be 135/145. Neck and cloak also got pretty high (~150 and 155 respectively). It's not unreasonable for someone who raided all of 8.3 to be ~135ilvl with everything, plus full sockets. My druid was ilvl 136 when I walked into Shadowlands.

Even a casual player around ilvl 100 would be massively overpowered in Shadowlands. Ilvl 50->100 isn't a doubling of power, it's orders of magnitude higher. The content is somewhat challenging for a fresh character with no gear. It being 'easy' is your 'reward' for raiding in 8.3. Most raids your reward is being able to do the next raid and push yourself harder. For the final raid, it's to go crazy and make leveling trivial.

Yeah this.

It's blindingly obvious when you group with people who have leveled up recently and don't have catch-up gear and thus have a pretty low ilvl. For them, stuff that's like a joke an ilvl 100 or even ilvl 90 or 85 character, is a serious struggle. I'm level 56 on a character created less than three weeks ago, with less than 2 days /played, and because I got catch-up gear, and the heart and the cloak, I'm still covered in stuff I haven't replaced yet (though at 55/56 I am definitely beginning to replace a lot of it).

Questing needs to be easy enough for them to do decently.

IIRC, Blizzard have experimented with making questing scale with ilvl whilst you're leveling, to prevent the "its 2 ez!!!" complaints like the OP's one, but people FUCKING HATED IT, like really hated it, so they got rid of it. I dunno if it even made it out of the beta of whatever expansion it was in.

[Swnem]

What? Sorry but you are insane in this matter. While i agree GW2 exploration (and ESO) is way better than Wow's, it's story is pathetic, lacking and you can't delve into a game and feel part of it. So that's win and lose at the same time (but overall i think GW2 still does better job in terms of exploration, how about wow's story but gw exploration?)

But counting FFXIV in? Since 2013 i've played more FFXIV than wow and i totally disagree. FFXIV zones are dull, have bad textures, are boring, nothing interesting going there, quests are even more pathetic than wow ones, no chests and findings, no interesting things, lack of details, just terrain and rocks. Monsters are repetetive and boring, most zones are just empty...

You did notice i was talking about dynamic events? It wasn't a broad X is better than Y comment.
FF does have more than just events. It has hunts. I do disagree with your opinion on the art of the zones. Especially shadowbringers ones. I really like the way they look and are designed. They are not labyrinths to brave through like modern WoW zones are. I can get great vista shots of the whole zone.
Anyways, this stuff is peripheral. I don't think cause WoW has chests with useless stuff or rares that drop sub-par gear makes the world feel alive. Those are not worth doing. Events and hunts in FF are useful at end game still. So, it's a different design. FATES is what i can expect WoW to do. GW2 tech might be impossible to replicate on WoWs engine.

[Ringthane]

Seriously? Think about the last time a mob charged up an attack in a cone that the devs clearly indicate you should move out of. Think how easy it was to sidestep it. How long it took to charge up. And you equate that to having 'gone a few rounds with Ali or Frasier.'

Making mobs pose at least SOME kind of threat isn't going to scare people away. Or shouldn't.

Edit: Do you enjoy being invincible? To me it's boring.

Again - where's Wildstar now? Answer the question, don't ignore a valid point. Wildstar did exactly what you want WoW to do, and where is it now?

It's not our problem if this game doesn't satisfy you. If you're that unhappy with the game, move on. And I was playing since before AQ opened, and things were harder then. And you know what? I don't care. I'm just enjoying the game.

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Don't want to fight a mob for 10 mins. Do want to atleast have to move or care about the enemy I'm fighting, even just a little bit.

So move. You're not stuck in one place. Every PVP video I see, the characters are jumping around like rabbits on acid. Your character can move during fighting, so do so if that's what you want. You're holding an umbrella and complaining about the rain getting you wet.

[ymirsson]

Does every topic need to be turned into a false dichotomy?

I don't know, does it?

Creating challenge and making things interesting is the game's job. It shouldn't be up to the player to imagine those.

Because every challenge is equal for every player?

[Queen of Hamsters]

Yeah this.

It's blindingly obvious when you group with people who have leveled up recently and don't have catch-up gear and thus have a pretty low ilvl. For them, stuff that's like a joke an ilvl 100 or even ilvl 90 or 85 character, is a serious struggle. I'm level 56 on a character created less than three weeks ago, with less than 2 days /played, and because I got catch-up gear, and the heart and the cloak, I'm still covered in stuff I haven't replaced yet (though at 55/56 I am definitely beginning to replace a lot of it).

Questing needs to be easy enough for them to do decently.

IIRC, Blizzard have experimented with making questing scale with ilvl whilst you're leveling, to prevent the "its 2 ez!!!" complaints like the OP's one, but people FUCKING HATED IT, like really hated it, so they got rid of it. I dunno if it even made it out of the beta of whatever expansion it was in.

Wasn’t it BfA that had some sort of scaling with ilvl even after the controversy? I never got to a point of one-shotting in BfA, despite full Mythic sets.

Well, corruptions aside...

[Kokolums]

Because questing doesn't warrant difficulty - it would just be needlessly tedious

Save the challenge for endgame content

The challenge is not there either.

When a new raid tier comes out, the top guilds just buy their clears. They spend real life money to buy millions and millions of gold, then server hop buying up all the best BoEs people find. Then they all server hop back to their guild and clear the raid. Then that guild turns around and starts selling carries. Everyone else spends real life money to buy carries. These top guilds even go to the black market to buy the gold needed to do it instead of buying the token.

No-one accepts the challenge of M+ either. Everyone is either stacking FOTM classes / ranged to clear M+, or gearing up via carries, then turning around and clearing it.

Everyone is cheesing and buying their clears, not playing the game. If Blizz put all the rewards in a store, it wouldn't really make much difference at this point. WoW is a gacha game with a clever design to mask how everyone spends money to buy their way to the top.

[Cyanu]

questing is designed to be accessible to brand new green characters and new players as well, your bfa main vastly outgears everything even if you barely did an M+3, essentially leveling is tuned for ilvl ~75 characters, even a ilvl of 100 is high for it

and the focus was never the challenge, leveling is about exploration and storytelling

[omeomorfismo]

use only green gear, then the mobs will hit you much heavier.
if still its not enough, take out gear directly

[Orange Joe]

I feel like every thread I make requires a disclaimer, so here it is again: I love WoW. I've been playing it since I was 13 in early TBC. This is my opinion. You have yours. Let's have a discussion. I'm not attacking your very soul just because I disgaree.

Now, I ask you honestly, do you enjoy questing? I find myself asking more and more...why don't mobs hit hard? I really don't understand why Blizzard even make mobs charge up big attacks when they don't even take 10% off your health. I've stood in things I shouldn't stand in countless time just to try and feel like I'm atleast in some kind of danger. Why go to the effort of animating things you apparently should move out of, when you don't need to move out at all?

Maybe that's what they're going for now, and I'm sure a lot of people like a relaxing experience. But what is so wrong with encouraging a little thought? Instead of pulling mobs without a care in the world, why not turn questing from a brain dead slog into something that can actually keep you on your toes. I'm not asking for a brutal challenge...I'm asking for any challenge at all. It's not hard to move out of the kind of things quest mobs throw at you. Why shouldn't those things take atleast 25% of your health off?

Every second mob should charge up an attack that you have to move out of, or casts something you NEED to interrupt or you lose 25-50% of your health. Because, why not? Why must questing be pulling mobs and doing the same rotation over and over just waiting till they die. Can you really be honest and say you enjoy when you pull an extra mob in this game? It's just a chore because it's mindless.

MAKE ME MOVE OUT OF SOMETHING. Rares and elites can be soloed. What is that? Wouldn't you like some other kind of combat than just seeing a mob, running over to it and pressing the same buttons you have before while standing still until its dead without any threats to your character whatsoever?

If you want a challenge remove some gear? Why do you feel the need to force a challenge on everyone?

[Adam Jensen]

I played 'Nilla OP.

Trust me, sitting down to drink after every pull got old.

Also, at about 55+, Shadowlands mobs do start getting pretty tough, enough that pulling extra mobs means either cooldowns or die.

[csguba]

That isn't the game nor should it be, Blizzard's majority playerbase isn't wanting this. You can artificially increase the quest difficulty by simply pulling more, with the benefit of speeding up your levelling. Personally playing a newish character with sub 100 ilevel pulling multiple mobs would hit hard for sure when you've got 4+ bashing on you.

[Queendom]

Because leveling is already a chore by its sole existence and making it worse is not a good idea.

[ymirsson]

The challenge is not there either.

When a new raid tier comes out, the top guilds just buy their clears. They spend real life money to buy millions and millions of gold, then server hop buying up all the best BoEs people find. Then they all server hop back to their guild and clear the raid. Then that guild turns around and starts selling carries. Everyone else spends real life money to buy carries. These top guilds even go to the black market to buy the gold needed to do it instead of buying the token.

No-one accepts the challenge of M+ either. Everyone is either stacking FOTM classes / ranged to clear M+, or gearing up via carries, then turning around and clearing it.

Everyone is cheesing and buying their clears, not playing the game. If Blizz put all the rewards in a store, it wouldn't really make much difference at this point. WoW is a gacha game with a clever design to mask how everyone spends money to buy their way to the top.

Somewhere, cleverly hidden i presume, there is a line which divides "buying the success" from "proper preparation". And somewhere between them is the field of "might be a tad too much preparation, but that's competition for you"