Shadowlands Plothole?

[Super Dickmann]

Yeah, but sadly they said that souls that are killed in the Shadowlands died for good (though i kind of feels that there are caveats to that statement)

It depends on the realm. There's a quest in the Maldraxxus invasion of Bastion about how when you kill a Maldraxxi they don't actually perma-die since you need to disrupt their souls, but Kyrians do. It comes back with the quest with the Kyrian abomination.

Maldraxxus is the only realm that does that at least from what I've seen and if I had to give Blizzard some credit it's because of necromancy. Necromancy involves a soul and body that are imperfectly attached and as far as Maldraxxus is concerned, that's done so that when you die, you can then be put in something else. With the other realms your soul and body/anima are synonymous so when you destroy one you take out the other.

[Maxilian]

Lmao why are we helping them again?

Cause we do what we are told as long as there's loot?

IMHO, this alone, make the covenant that looks the "best" be the worst, like they after "ascension" have basically no will of their own, is just a shinny scourge, with a winged LK.

Note: Also it seems that the Forsworn do not know that they are working with the maw, at least, not all of them.

They are the bad guys who actually have a point, but i also imagine that they will end up getting what they want, and we will end up changing the "path" that the Kyrian have taken

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It depends on the realm. There's a quest in the Maldraxxus invasion of Bastion about how when you kill a Maldraxxi they don't actually perma-die since you need to disrupt their souls, but Kyrians do. It comes back with the quest with the Kyrian abomination.

Maldraxxus is the only realm that does that at least from what I've seen and if I had to give Blizzard some credit it's because of necromancy. Necromancy involves a soul and body that are imperfectly attached and as far as Maldraxxus is concerned, that's done so that when you die, you can then be put in something else. With the other realms your soul and body/anima are synonymous so when you destroy one you take out the other.

If i remember correctly, some Forsworn said that they will come back after you kill them, but they might just have a wrong idea of what will actually happen.

And then we have Denathrious, in the datamined dialogue, when we kill him, his sword, talks and say that she will bring his master back, but that also may be just wishful thinking (though Denathrious is not a mortal soul, he's one of the First ones, and knowing that Titans and demons have another "afterlife" then it may mean is the same for the First ones)

[Super Dickmann]

If i remember correctly, some Forsworn said that they will come back after you kill them, but they might just have a wrong idea of what will actually happen.

And then we have Denathrious, in the datamined dialogue, when we kill him, his sword, talks and say that she will bring his master back, but that also may be just wishful thinking (though Denathrious is not a mortal soul, he's one of the First ones, and knowing that Titans and demons have another "afterlife" then it may mean is the same for the First ones)

Denathrius is special, admittedly, as for the Forsworn, the simplest take is that they're just wrong. By comparison the dude when he sees the Kyrian abomination calls against killing it because it'd also destroy his buddies' souls. Whatever the rule though I'm fairly sure it'll be broken before the covenant campaigns are done.

[Nerovar]

Cause we do what we are told as long as there's loot?

IMHO, this alone, make the covenant that looks the "best" be the worst, like they after "ascension" have basically no will of their own, is just a shinny scourge, with a winged LK.

Note: Also it seems that the Forsworn do not know that they are working with the maw, at least, not all of them.

They are the bad guys who actually have a point, but i also imagine that they will end up getting what they want, and we will end up changing the "path" that the Kyrian have taken

Yeah, this seems to be the "I was just following orders" meme. It's so weird to me how they turned every one of these covenants into a bag of incompetent fucks who can't get anything done without an outsider. The only person that actually possesses some degree of foresight, intelligence and will to act is Denathrius and he's the bad guy.

[Super Dickmann]

Yeah, this seems to be the "I was just following orders" meme. It's so weird to me how they turned every one of these covenants into a bag of incompetent fucks who can't get anything done without an outsider. The only person that actually possesses some degree of foresight, intelligence and will to act is Denathrius and he's the bad guy.

Hey, give some credit to the Primus. Dude's most likely an emaciated gimp in the Jailer's dungeon stuck making legendaries for Xxpoonslayerxx and he still managed to contribute to your efforts. Compare trying to get the Winter Queen to notice you or the Archon saying she's monitoring the situation after you go through five state busybodies filing notarized reports in triplicate about how the realm is about to be fucked sideways.

[razorpax]

1. Death broke after emerald nightmare
2. Bwonsamdi only takes the souls of his followers
2. The Kyrian ferry some souls not all and they are aware of the problems right now but it’s not their place to interfere

All of this is answered through the campaigns

[Nerovar]

Hey, give some credit to the Primus. Dude's most likely an emaciated gimp in the Jailer's dungeon stuck making legendaries for Xxpoonslayerxx and he still managed to contribute to your efforts. Compare trying to get the Winter Queen to notice you or the Archon saying she's monitoring the situation after you go through five state busybodies filing notarized reports in triplicate about how the realm is about to be fucked sideways.

Looks like the the Archon and some of the other Kyrian higher-ups will have to stand trial in Pandaria once this is over.

[Maxilian]

Yeah, this seems to be the "I was just following orders" meme. It's so weird to me how they turned every one of these covenants into a bag of incompetent fucks who can't get anything done without an outsider. The only person that actually possesses some degree of foresight, intelligence and will to act is Denathrius and he's the bad guy.

The people of Maldraxxus are not that incompetent, is just that betrayal and losing more than half of your forces in a day is a big set back...

ALSO THAT THEY HAVE REALLY QUESTIONABLE PRIORITIES (looking at you guys fighting for the sake of fighting when there's a war to fight >.> )

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Looks like the the Archon and some of the other Kyrian higher-ups will have to stand trial in Pandaria once this is over.

Most of the Kyran higher ups find the Archon blindly and the one the gall who didn't is most likely going to end up killed in a dungeon or something.

But yes, i do agree that the Archon is a fool and should be send into the Maw for a while.

[Nerovar]

The people of Maldraxxus are not that incompetent, is just that betrayal and losing more than half of your forces in a day is a big set back...

ALSO THAT THEY HAVE REALLY QUESTIONABLE PRIORITIES (looking at you guys fighting for the sake of fighting when there's a war to fight >.> )

Yeah, that's what I meant by incompetent. You have a faction that's solely dedicated to defending the Shadowlands and all we see is them infighting because they're hardcore larping their "might makes right" fantasies and want to be on top.

[Maxilian]

1. Death broke after emerald nightmare

I'm not sure if we know the exact moment, but we do know if what after that, as they pointed out that when the Emerald Nightmare raid happened, and we killed Ursoc, it was still working.

[Super Dickmann]

Looks like the the Archon and some of the other Kyrian higher-ups will have to stand trial in Pandaria once this is over.

She legitimately could have prevented this. It didn't have to be this way.

That said it did contribute to the best bit of unintentional comedy after the pre-patch cinematic. It's the quest where you're supposed to check on the wards and while you're at it, Uther very, very slowly flies up, calls you names, blows up the ward and then very, very slowly flies off. All the while, since the robots are deactivated and the Blue Man Group has no peripheral vision nobody does anything to stop him. After about a minute, the gears in the head of that twink who's BiS for Kyrian finally begin turning and he says something to the effect of "Gee, champion, that sure is a shame. We better tell the cops." Abysmal scripting for a zone that's otherwise good about this, but it had me in stitches.

[Nerovar]

She legitimately could have prevented this. It didn't have to be this way.

That said it did contribute to the best bit of unintentional comedy after the pre-patch cinematic. It's the quest where you're supposed to check on the wards and while you're at it, Uther very, very slowly flies up, calls you names, blows up the ward and then very, very slowly flies off. All the while, since the robots are deactivated and the Blue Man Group has no peripheral vision nobody does anything to stop him. After about a minute, the gears in the head of that twink who's BiS for Kyrian finally begin turning and he says something to the effect of "Gee, champion, that sure is a shame. We better tell the cops." Abysmal scripting for a zone that's otherwise good about this, but it had me in stitches.

That's the Uther we know and love.

[MikeBogina]

Yeah, but sadly they said that souls that are killed in the Shadowlands died for good (though i kind of feels that there are caveats to that statement)

It's just that there's nothing solid even now that we're in Shadowlands, of what is actually going on with these souls. I feel like it's possible that there might be an afterlife after this one, that's just an ocean of souls who can't hurt each other or interact with the physical universe ever again. Like maybe it's because i feel oddly horrible at the idea of perma erasing everything i kill in Shadowlands, mixed with how this doesn't feel like a real after life, but i wouldn't be opposed to the idea that there's a real final afterlives that none of this factions, drama and other stuff in the Shadowlands exists and it's just an ocean of souls that can't die, nor can they do anything to each other and no one knows about it, cause you can't come back from it.

[Maxilian]

It's just that there's nothing solid even now that we're in Shadowlands, of what is actually going on with these souls. I feel like it's possible that there might be an afterlife after this one, that's just an ocean of souls who can't hurt each other or interact with the physical universe ever again. Like maybe it's because i feel oddly horrible at the idea of perma erasing everything i kill in Shadowlands, mixed with how this doesn't feel like a real after life, but i wouldn't be opposed to the idea that there's a real final afterlives that none of this factions, drama and other stuff in the Shadowlands exists and it's just an ocean of souls that can't die, nor can they do anything to each other and no one knows about it, cause you can't come back from it.

Well what i said about the souls that died in shadowlands truly dying is not an ingame info, is something that was said in one of the recent lore interviews, but as Dickman said, it at least do not apply to everyone (Maldraxxus being the prime example)

[MikeBogina]

She legitimately could have prevented this. It didn't have to be this way.

That said it did contribute to the best bit of unintentional comedy after the pre-patch cinematic. It's the quest where you're supposed to check on the wards and while you're at it, Uther very, very slowly flies up, calls you names, blows up the ward and then very, very slowly flies off. All the while, since the robots are deactivated and the Blue Man Group has no peripheral vision nobody does anything to stop him. After about a minute, the gears in the head of that twink who's BiS for Kyrian finally begin turning and he says something to the effect of "Gee, champion, that sure is a shame. We better tell the cops." Abysmal scripting for a zone that's otherwise good about this, but it had me in stitches.

Correct me if im wrong, but dont they also say during the Temple of Purity attack, that all these Forsworn are coming from the Temple of Loyalty but then it's never brought up again? They even know that Lysonia is the hand of Loyalty >.>

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Well what i said about the souls that died in shadowlands truly dying is not an ingame info, is something that was said in one of the recent lore interviews, but as Dickman said, it at least do not apply to everyone (Maldraxxus being the prime example)

I think the girl in Ardenwield Niya(?) is also hopeful that they can bring back the souls lost from the groves, which could be wishful thinking, but for someone like her who's probably been doing this job for a long time, should have some more understanding of the how the souls work.

Hopefully it's all cleared up soon, because right now it's all a mess. Still loving the expansion despite it though.

[loras]

In an Interview that Taliesen made, it was said that the Titan souls do not go to the Shadowlands, that they have their own "afterlife" like the demons.

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Yeah, but sadly they said that souls that are killed in the Shadowlands died for good (though i kind of feels that there are caveats to that statement)

Aye, but as we've seen before enough power infusion can change things thoroughly. Demon hunters go to the twisting nether in example, Gul'dan was enough demon that soulbinding him like one almost worked.

Argus has been tortured for aeons by Sargeras, and his powers, quotes and even general color scheme align with death quite strongly.
As a creature suffused with death magic (conveniently made available to Sargeras by i.e. the dreadlords) is likely to go to the shadowlands upon death.

[therealbowser]

You don't need to love entire game 100% to play it. I've enjoyed some story arcs in BfA, but hated entire "who the hell remembers whatth War of Horde vs Alliance". Was it 4th?

You're playing this down but from your post you sounded very, very frustrated and angry with Shadowlands' story. Not trying to attack you here, just offering advice.

BFA's leveling content (Kul Tiras and Zandalar) was fun enough, but the War campaign was awful. Once people have had time to get over BFA this will be more commonly recognized probably. Or not... BFA may very well leave such a bad taste for people that no one will ever accept that anything in it was ever good. Who knows...

Again, from the way you were posting you absolutely despise Shadowlands' story. If that's true and you are playing it anyways I don't know what to tell you. I wouldn't be able to force myself to play a game with a story I hate that much. Maybe it's different for you?

[Newname1234567890]

The thing I don't understand is this:

Since Legion when the ""machine of death broke"" the Arbiter funnels every single soul into the Maw. But don't souls only get carried into the Shadowlands by the Kyrians in the first place? What exactly have they been doing since Legion? They could obviously see what was going on because it's their job to bring Souls before the Arbiter but they still just yeeted them into the big stream heading straight into the Maw?

How retarded are these blue angels?

I think it's addressed in a kryian campaign quest (I saw it in a beta video). But yes they carry the souls and yeet them into the stream. They're reasoning being it's literally Thier only purpose and they do it regardless of the arbiters judgment (or lack thereof).

The Scorpion and the Fox thing.

[Lupinemancer]

I was just wondering how bolvar is raising death knights (I.e Allied races) if every soul is stuck in the Maw

Magic, I'm sure you realize such a force exists in WoW, and Death Magic (Necromancy) is what you draw upon from the Shadowlands, so he's able to raise them that way.

Also, doesent technically all death knights and undead remember the shadowlands? Why is it being treated as a mystery?

It was recently revealed that when a spirit is pulled out of the Shadowlands, it doesn't remember ever being there.

[Newname1234567890]

DKs and Undead don't remember the Shadowlands, the Wild Gods might.

As for recruiting Slyvannas, Azeorth is special and i wouldn't be surprised if Azerthoain deaths counted for more.

We don't know what broke the Arbiter expect that it was red and happened in Legion.

As for ghosts and regular necromancy, that will hopefully get explained in the future.

I think your confusing plot hole with not yet revealed.