Why is there no challenge in questing?

[Traveler Voltin]

Blizzard wants the challenging stuff at endgame. where it should be.

[ZazuuPriest]

honestly heres the thing with leveling.

When im doing it i can pretty much do w.e i want/pull w.e i want with no real danger of dying
But other people like my young daughter who likes to play with me can die very easily because she is inexperienced

There is no challenge for most of the returning player base but new players, young players, players with disabilities yeah its not as easy for them.

[oldgeezer]

But Blizzard, unfortunately, likes to pander and make the game "Accesible to all" which just makes it bad for everyone in reality, but hey, they don't listen.

The thing is, though, the game isn't 'accessible to all'. Questing is, and ordinary dungeons are, of course. Blizzard would be mad to make it otherwise. But mythic content? Hell no. Elite pvp stuff? No. That's fine. Easy to learn, hard to master and all that. Questing is fine as it is, unless you want to spend 10 minutes fighting a kobold. That sounds pretty boring to me.

[Raugnaut]

It's ilvl tuning. A fresh lvl 50 with 50-60 ilvl isn't even half as powerful as a geared 120-135 ilvl 50. Probably closer to 1/3rd or even 1/4th. Keep in mind that ilvl scaling only kicks in once you hit the max lvl for the content - Otherwise it reverts to either level scaling or no scaling at all (Roughly half of the mobs in SL I've seen don't have lvl scaling until you hit max or you do the threads of fate thingy)

So if the quest is challenging to a ilvl 120 player, it's going to require a group of 3 ilvl 50-60 players to do even a normal quest.

If you really want a challenge, do the Ironman challenge. Now thats difficult!

[McNeil]

I'd like the idea to have something like a ''challenge mode'' for questing, basically tuning the mobs a lot higher and give them higher aggro radius to make them feel more like vanilla WoW mobs. The rewards would be improved so that more experienced players would beefit from doing more difficult questing and reach max level faster that way.

[MoanaLisa]

Questing content needs to be tuned so that it can be accomplished by everyone. That's tanks, DPS and healers. Leveling at the start of an expansion is much like taking an active tour of the expansion areas and content. It's not supposed to be difficult. Mostly it's going to be a solo thing and if someone wants to play as a healer then they need to be able to bring down mobs as well. It's important that less-skilled players also be able to successfully complete the questing content.

[Gaidax]

Because, for 9000th time already, WoW is a game that has overwhelmingly casual population that just logins once in a while to smash some mobs and pick their flowers and mogs and does not really care or want every other encounter in the world to be some gut-wrenching experience that leaves them on an edge of a chair.

Last thing Blizz needs is whole world to feel oppressive - The Maw is as far as they can dare to push it and it remains to be seen if their gamble there pays off.

[Unholyground]

The game is built around the end game not leveling, that is the only answer you need OP.

[cuafpr]

because leveling is for everyone, from the kid barely able to play, to the old person trying to enjoy their golden years, to the skilled raider. they could do some side content with challenges I guess. Timeless isle actually had some hard hitting stuff, that was telegraphed well when it first came out in MOP

[agentsi]

There is very little, MMO, left in World of Warcraft.

Everything can be done solo until you hit max level. And even then, the ONLY times you need a group for anything, are raids, or dungeons.

That isn't what an MMO is supposed to be about. That isn't what WoW used to be about. And if anyone wants to argue, that is fine, but you're wrong. But explain why games that punish users for soloing are still so highly popular. FFXIV, EQ, Classic WoW, etc, etc. All of those games require you to engage with other players during the level-up process. To do quests, to do almost anything honestly. Retail WoW, does not. It is a single-player experience until you hit max level.

My biggest gripe with current wow, is this stupid borrowed power system.

What do we have as a player, that we earned in Legion or BFA? Skills are removed and added on a whim, so those can't be counted anymore. But there isn't a "single thing", that makes us a more powerful character in the game that has carried over from the last 2-3-4-5 expansions, that we still have now. I think more than anything, that is the biggest problem with wow, and the Devs are blind to it.

[haiyken]

There is very little, MMO, left in World of Warcraft.

Everything can be done solo until you hit max level. And even then, the ONLY times you need a group for anything, are raids, or dungeons.

That isn't what an MMO is supposed to be about. That isn't what WoW used to be about. And if anyone wants to argue, that is fine, but you're wrong. But explain why games that punish users for soloing are still so highly popular. FFXIV, EQ, Classic WoW, etc, etc. All of those games require you to engage with other players during the level-up process. To do quests, to do almost anything honestly. Retail WoW, does not. It is a single-player experience until you hit max level.

My biggest gripe with current wow, is this stupid borrowed power system.

What do we have as a player, that we earned in Legion or BFA? Skills are removed and added on a whim, so those can't be counted anymore. But there isn't a "single thing", that makes us a more powerful character in the game that has carried over from the last 2-3-4-5 expansions, that we still have now. I think more than anything, that is the biggest problem with wow, and the Devs are blind to it.

So much to unpack here and so little relevant to the topic at hand, it's actually amazing.

I think "challenging questing" and "engaging with other players" are really different things. Just because you play with other players, it doesn't mean the content is harder... If anything, it gets easier because... Well, because you're getting help from other people ! Classic WoW's difficulty didn't come from challenging questing (or gameplay), but from inexperience from a majority of players, lack of information on the game and it being the first MMO for the majority of the players (we've been over this in hundreads of forum threads already).

Retail WoW is "single-player experience until you hit max level" only if you want it to. A lot of people level as a groupe or as a couple, there is no norm here. You can play all of the game as a group if you want to. It's not needed but it's possible. The game never prevent you to do that.

Also, borrowed power has nothing to do with the questing or the leveling. You're off-topic here, and we also talked about this to death already.

You also have to consider that Shadowlands was in many aspect of large reboot for the game, mainly about the leveling from 1 experience, pacing, getting abilities. This was a big overall of the game. That's why it doesn't feel as a step up from the previous expansion powerwise but more as a reshuffle. It doesn't feel that great but it's quite obvious that the devs learnt their lesson. People keep complaining about the Covenants and it's borrowed power, but in reality, it doesn't feel anything like artefact weapons or azerite gear/essences. The "power" the Covenant brings is so diluted between every aspect of the game that leaving it behind will not have the same impact as it did with the others. Boosts to your character been only temporary is needed to avoid stats becoming insane and the game breaking. It can't pile up after every expansion... Either way, it's off-topic and irrelevant when talking about questing.

[Varaben]

I'd like the idea to have something like a ''challenge mode'' for questing, basically tuning the mobs a lot higher and give them higher aggro radius to make them feel more like vanilla WoW mobs. The rewards would be improved so that more experienced players would beefit from doing more difficult questing and reach max level faster that way.

I think this is an interesting idea - like Mythic leveling or something. You can toggle difficulty in dungeons, so why can't that work for outdoor content?

I had about 120 ilevel and while the leveling wasn't too bad, there were some mobs that did hit pretty hard. Maybe it depends on your class and stuff, but I definitely got into some dicey situations especially in Revendreth.

[TheTaurenChieftain]

I also agree that something like a "challenge mode" similar to " war mode" would be great for people who want a challenge. You maybe get more experience and better rewards but in exchange most mobs are also harder and have more life.

So the people who want unchallenging content can do it their way and people who want to have a challenge with regular questing can also get what they want. Win - Win.

[agentsi]

No, they're not. Sorry, not my fault you didn't grasp the context of the port and how it applies to the game. The point of the reply was to show you that the entire game is meant to be played solo, which is why QUESTING is so easy with no challenge. The borrowed power systems lend to this problem even more so, causing it to be worse.

Questing in theory is meant to be done together when placed inside of the environment of an MMO. Hence the reason it is you know, an MMO to begin with. And no, a lot of people don't group in retail wow to do a quest. None of my guildmates in either guild did so, and neither did any of my RL friends. All of them solo'd their way to 60 because grouping requires waiting on folks to catch up or move at your same speed, which they never do. Easier to move solo as the content is never hard.

Nothing about shadowlands is a "reboot", it is continuing the story from the last expansion. The leveling is easier, too easy IMO, and outside of 1-50, the game feels very much the same. Do this quest, fetch this item, get to this level, get to this ilvl. Exactly. The. Same. Game.

Please understand what you're replying to before doing so. Saves folks some time without having to waste energy on this nonsense.

[Brubbahlubs]

Why is it that every time there is a discussion regarding anything in this game there is always two absolutes, but never anything with a little nuance? ( Started writing this at page 8. Its getting better)

I completely get OPs point. While leveling in Bastion I got a quest where I was supposed to kill a mob. The suggested group size was 3(!) people and it was accompanied by this group finder icon. Oh boy. This might be fun. Having taken a break at the end of The Eternal Palace I had a mix of heroic / mythic gear for my retri offspec. Summed up to around 93 ilevel. Not pre-expansion power house, but still better than most newbies.
So taking on a quest that had a group size of 3 suggested looked like a decent challenge.

Nope. A cake walk. Not blowing any major defensive cooldowns, no kiting, no stress. It just took a little longer time.
I was expecting at least something that would have me on my toes or at least get some help. At this point one may wonder what the point of the leveling is, and if there even is one...
I get it. Loads of people playing WoW wants to fly trough the content with minimal challenge and social interaction, so that they may watch their favorite show on the 2nd monitor in peace. But as a player whom both love a challenge and the "multiplayer" part in "MMORPG", let me get something in return after 10 years of streamlining.

In regards to some of your thoughtful suggestions towards making the experience more fulfilling:

Pull more mobs to make it difficult. Come on. Taking on 5 mobs is barely more difficult than taking on 1.
Take your gear off. What in heavens name is that of a suggestion. You want to use your upgrades, not discard them.
Ignore it. Its at max level you get to the challenges. Leveling is part of the game. If its supposed to be an easy grind fest why not just remove the entire leveling process?
If you want to NPCs to do more damage, then have fun eating and drinking after each pull. Health and mana regen while leveling is absurd. Having mobs do more damage does not necessitate more downtime between mobs. By the time you've looted, you're already up by 50% points and CDs are off.
Enable challenge mode. Why? Why would we want to segregate the player base even more? I need help with this quest in Tanaris, but Steve here gotta go to Stormwind and toggle a button?

So here is the part which most of you do not get. You don't have to make EVERYTHING difficult to achieve OPs dream. IMPOSSIBLE you say. No.
Have the damage done / damage taken ratio be just like today in order to not anger the loud minority. Then, make independent group quests challenging so that soloing those is difficult / damn near impossible and encourage grouping. Either have world quests appear (ala Legion) or make non-chain quests more difficult. That way the "Casuals" that either doesn't like to group up or face a challenge can go on with their style of playing the game.

But there must be an incentive. Say for a quest that actually requires two people, you each get double the rewards. And if you're able to solo it, you get quadruple. And for those of you who wonders why they should rewards X amount more, you are free to look at how every other single piece of content is implemented. The harder the challenge the bigger the reward.

Example:
**Ding** **Ding** "A group of Defias Brotherhood has been spotted in Darkshore, heading north. To Arms!"

After a bit of scouting you find the group, charge in and continue to watch Friends on your 2nd monitor. To your utter shock you're dead.
You may now:
a) Go back to what you were doing prior to the Defias Brotherhood being spotted.
b) As "a", with the additon of going to the forum, making an angry post on how Blizzard ruined your night, owes you game time and that you'll unsubscribe from the game for the 7th time this month.
b) Pause Friends and attempt to bring down the group by your self.
c) Hope more people show up and experience how to cooperate with other players.
d) Gather a group and enjoy the MMO in MMORPG.
e) Ask your BiS geared guild mate Kyle, who is roleplaying in Goldshire, to help you out.

This isn't wanting the vanilla experience (which was rather dull), outgearing the content or only catering to my own needs. This is about bringing the social element from Vanilla into the game again, but respecting the various play styles of various players and giving everyone options.

Is my glorious solution perfect? No. Is it better the "difficulty-bar" that the WoW team has been sliding left and right for the last 16 years to please every angry forum poster? I believe so, yes.

[Ajko]

For the same reason the pandemic is still going on at this point in 2020.

People are retarded.

best comment 2020

[DarkAmbient]

Because Blizzard wants you to ding max level and become a regular customer instead of quitting after 2 hours because quest mobs are two-shotting you.

[Atrea]

The simple and succinct answer to this question is, "Because that's not the game Blizzard is making."

If challenge and danger are what you're looking for, then the 50-60 leveling experience in WoW is not the place to find it.

Have you considered trying leveling via PVP? It will be very hard unless you win a lot, which is contingent upon your skill. A single well-prepared, skilled individual can make A TON of difference on a team. If your experience is consistent loss, consider the possibility that the reason you lose a lot is because you're not as good as you think you are.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

There's a lot of dumb people out there. The other day I mentioned how mobs don't scale to your level in shadowlands and the chat almost ate me alive. Apparently they prefer 1 shotting everything, and they prefer 99% of the content in the game being useless over having scaling.

[Kaykay]

There's a lot of dumb people out there. The other day I mentioned how mobs don't scale to your level in shadowlands and the chat almost ate me alive. Apparently they prefer 1 shotting everything, and they prefer 99% of the content in the game being useless over having scaling.

Even with scaling, it just took longer time, there's no challenge to speak of.