Shadowlands Pathfinder not to include rep

[Amsden]

It's a start, I wish we could just go back to just dropping some gold the instant I hit cap though. Feels bad to have to "earn" the same thing over and over again.

[Thelyron]

I'm glad someone else pointed it out. This is basically not changing at all. You still won't get Flying until an arbitrary patch some unknown time in the future. You still have to do a grind(Renown instead of Rep...wooo...feel the excitement....) which literally doesn't even make any difference for flight until that patch goes live.

If people think this is a better version of Pathfinder? Man...I don't know how else to say it, but: They're stupid. It's literally the same thing with a different coat of paint.

Let's talk about actual changes. Is this completable before 9.1? That would be significant.

Difference being that you only have to gain "rep" with one faction, not fucking all of them. This is objectively better.

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I am a bit disappointed. Since flying is bad for the game it should be only available to people who absolutely are extremely bothered by not being able to fly.

It should be unlocked behind either cutting edge, very high pvp rating or many +20 keys, 3000 battle pets, loremaster or the combination of all of them.

We should rather get access to faster transportation over the expansion.

Absolutely delusional.

[Steelcryo]

I never understand in these threads why the anti flying crowd get so upset about flying being in the game. If you don't want to fly, then don't?

The only thing it changes for you if other people fly is World PvP, in which case I think WM should disable flying anyway. The point of Warmode is to pvp, not to fly past each other.

So outside of war mode, flying makes zero difference to a player that doesn't want it. You can still do everything on a ground mount as always. So why so vehemently deny people that want to play a different way to you, when you can still play the way you want if they get the play style they want?

[SirCowdog]

Difference being that you only have to gain "rep" with one faction, not fucking all of them. This is objectively better.

12 of 1 vs a dozen of the other.

We don't KNOW that the total amount of work will be less, and its important to remember that, even though things look better on the surface. Just because it's renown instead of reputation doesn't necessarily mean it still won't be something of a grind. The hard lock time gating is still there.

Don't get me wrong, though. I'll be very happy if 9.1 and later patches actually has a bunch of content that uses flight. And if the unlock is actually simple and easy, then that's all to the good as well.

All I'm really saying, when you get down to it, is to not just ASSUME that it's better just because you only have to deal with one larger pile of shit instead of a bunch of smaller piles.

[Eggroll]

A bit of gating is fine,like have you explore the zones and do the zone main story is perfectly fine,they made the zones they want you to experience them not ignore them,the problem was that the gating in the past has been to much,making you get exalted and stuff,for new players specialy it felt even worse

This attitude is appartently abundand in the playerbase. This is a GAME and everyone is generous enough to spend money and time there - they should be thankful for that because otherwise they'd have no job. They have no logical, reasonable justification for forcing me to spend the time I spend there in a certain way. That's just bull. As long as I have fun, how is it their business to MAKE me have fun in a certain way. It's just developer vitriol - we make you do this - because we can - for no better or other reason.

[loras]

I hope there's a small price to pay for it though. I don't wanna complete the campaign then the switch to fly turns on automatically. Make a trainer that teaches it for 100g or something so I know to avoid it.

You could also just not fly.

[Xilurm]

You could also just not fly.

Yeah I don't want my mount to fly up every time I press spacebar, it's annoying if I'm trying to stay on the ground.

[loras]

Yeah I don't want my mount to fly up every time I press spacebar, it's annoying if I'm trying to stay on the ground.

Ah, you could suggest to Blizzard to make "disable flying" option for RP purposes.
Pretty sure it'd be trivially easy for them to implement, so it's probably good to ask.

[Jtbrig7390]

Yeah I don't want my mount to fly up every time I press spacebar, it's annoying if I'm trying to stay on the ground.

You could just rebind the key for flying.....

[Frinata]

Yeah I don't want my mount to fly up every time I press spacebar, it's annoying if I'm trying to stay on the ground.

It's strange, I didn't notice this issue with my chopper or white hawkstrider.

It's almost as if they were ground only mounts and thus could not fly.

And that I had chosen to mount that on purpose for a various ammount of reasons

Strange.

[Unholyground]

I also like that it’s being made available a lot earlier than normal. So we will have flying by probably March next year (roughly).

Probably later than that, I am guessing summer.

[huth]

Next, that isn't correct either.

Weeks 1, 4, 6 have caps of 4
Weeks 2, 3, 5, 11 have caps of 3
Weeks 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 have caps of 2
Week 16 has a cap of 1

Renown has caps on what you can earn each week so most people probably won't be capping each week.

That's self-contradictory. People won't cap because it has caps? Then why have caps in the first place? Also, the caps are trivial to reach if you play the game.

And it also doesn't contradict my point; you cannot grind Renown. Specificially because it is capped and the mechanics are set up such that grinding is impossible.

[rrayy]

It's a start, I wish we could just go back to just dropping some gold the instant I hit cap though. Feels bad to have to "earn" the same thing over and over again.

Again, you are not "earning the same thing over and over again". Each expansion you are earning flying for that expansion. Once you unlock it, you never lose it. Never once did you have to reearn flying anywhere.

Flying needs to be a reward for doing content, not handed to you based on the number next to your avatar.

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It's strange, I didn't notice this issue with my chopper or white hawkstrider.

It's almost as if they were ground only mounts and thus could not fly.

And that I had chosen to mount that on purpose for a various ammount of reasons

Strange.

It's strange.

It's almost as if people want to use their favorite mounts and not be force to use mounts they don't like because they are ground only

Strange.

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This attitude is appartently abundand in the playerbase. This is a GAME and everyone is generous enough to spend money and time there - they should be thankful for that because otherwise they'd have no job. They have no logical, reasonable justification for forcing me to spend the time I spend there in a certain way. That's just bull. As long as I have fun, how is it their business to MAKE me have fun in a certain way. It's just developer vitriol - we make you do this - because we can - for no better or other reason.

They have a big justification. It's their game. They get to set the rules. YOU should be thankful they made this game because without them there is no WoW, It is their business because it their game, not yours. It's just your entitlement because you think you and only you should dictate how the game should play.

It's their game. Their rules. Don't like it? Don't spend your money on it.

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I never understand in these threads why the anti flying crowd get so upset about flying being in the game. If you don't want to fly, then don't?

They aren't going to stay on the ground when flying is available because doing that gimps them and makes things take longer. Nobody is going to stay on the ground when you can fly and get things done faster. So, no they can't play the way they want if flying is in the game.

[Dhrizzle]

I never understand in these threads why the anti flying crowd get so upset about flying being in the game. If you don't want to fly, then don't?

The only thing it changes for you if other people fly is World PvP, in which case I think WM should disable flying anyway. The point of Warmode is to pvp, not to fly past each other.

So outside of war mode, flying makes zero difference to a player that doesn't want it. You can still do everything on a ground mount as always. So why so vehemently deny people that want to play a different way to you, when you can still play the way you want if they get the play style they want?

Because when Blizz design content they have an idea of pacing, basically how long they want people to play each day and how many days they expect people to play to get the main rewards.

If flying is in the game they have to pace the game around it, so a player tackling content from the ground may only complete half or less of the content, meaning they will fall behind and may not be done with the content by the time the next part is released.

There's also the idea of "opportunity cost," even if doing something is more fun the slower way, the content is made less satisfying if you have to choose slower progress and force yourself to miss out on rewards. This is also why players complain when content is too easy instead of using weaker gear or removing their best spells from their bars.

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This attitude is appartently abundand in the playerbase. This is a GAME and everyone is generous enough to spend money and time there - they should be thankful for that because otherwise they'd have no job. They have no logical, reasonable justification for forcing me to spend the time I spend there in a certain way. That's just bull. As long as I have fun, how is it their business to MAKE me have fun in a certain way. It's just developer vitriol - we make you do this - because we can - for no better or other reason.

As game designers their job consists of making people have fun a certain way. That's why we don't get a button to one-shot whole raids or the ability to log in, instantly ding the level cap and receive all the best loot in the mail.

[loras]

Honestly the worst part to me is how their ground only zones serm to be so much worse than their flying-immediately zones. No hate for the stories told therein, but many of the new zones seem like disjointed DnD mini-campaign areas stitched together in an only mildly coherent fashion.

I prefer to have a genuine world, disallowing the devs to hide poor work is one of the best aspects of flying, as even from the ground you'll notice it heavily, it's just less easy to identify without that bird's eye view.

[deenman]

This attitude is appartently abundand in the playerbase. This is a GAME and everyone is generous enough to spend money and time there - they should be thankful for that because otherwise they'd have no job. They have no logical, reasonable justification for forcing me to spend the time I spend there in a certain way. That's just bull. As long as I have fun, how is it their business to MAKE me have fun in a certain way. It's just developer vitriol - we make you do this - because we can - for no better or other reason.

its the other way around buddy,they were generous enough to make the game and give you the privilege to spend time and money on it,its THEIR game,THEIR vision,and you will play the way THEY intended it,its THEIR property not YOURS,if you disagree with their vision and intent,they arent forcing you to play

also wile i agree with you to some extent,the problem with flying is the cat is out of the bag,unless they remove flying this wont be fixed,they make amazing zones and they want you to experience them before you can just fly over them

[Djuntas]

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We don't know. But it seems plausible to expect 9.1 or 9.1.5.[/QUOTE]


Thanks, I kinda dont feel like playing Shadowlands until I know when flying comes...It such a shit fest without. Im a heavy grinder of achievements and so on, and since Legion Ive just tailored my gameplay to pre-fly and post-fly...Aka only doing content fly wont speed up that I can do before flying etc. So no explore zones achivements, no odd world achivements etc.

[Chickat]

I also like that it’s being made available a lot earlier than normal. So we will have flying by probably March next year (roughly).

I hope so, but I'm skeptical. I feel like they meant the next actual major patch like 9.2. Which would be when? August?

[GreenJesus]

I hope there's a small price to pay for it though. I don't wanna complete the campaign then the switch to fly turns on automatically. Make a trainer that teaches it for 100g or something so I know to avoid it.

Or just don't use your flying mount.

[Mardux]

I'm glad someone else pointed it out. This is basically not changing at all. You still won't get Flying until an arbitrary patch some unknown time in the future. You still have to do a grind(Renown instead of Rep...wooo...feel the excitement....) which literally doesn't even make any difference for flight until that patch goes live.

If people think this is a better version of Pathfinder? Man...I don't know how else to say it, but: They're stupid. It's literally the same thing with a different coat of paint.

Let's talk about actual changes. Is this completable before 9.1? That would be significant.

Are we also going to call people stupid for pretending there can't be any catch-up mechanics for renown?

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Don't forget Pathfinder will require Renown which is in a way similar to reputation. The only difference is you don't need exalted with all factions.



They mentioned flying will be available the first major patch so 9.1. So I would assume you would be able to complete Part I (or Pathfinder if there is no Part II) before 9.1.

Yeah, but what blizzard states isnt what some non-dev who likes tossing out insults at anyone who disagrees says.

Obviously, what the person who is not a blizzard rep says is what goes.

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A polished turd is still a turd.

No amount of rationalizing will make Pathfinder a good system. The entire philosophy of denying half of the players for the first part of the expansion, followed by infuriating the other half in the second half, is so deeply flawed that it should have been abandoned after WoD. Yes, that would take a LOT of work from Blizzard to come up with something better. But given the flagship nature of the game, and the absolutely colossal size of the playerbase and company, Blizzard SHOULD be doing better than "LOL Renown gusy! MOAR bettar!"

Yes, this is objectively "better" than previous iterations of Pathfinder. But that's like saying eating stale breadcrusts off the dirty ground is better than eating moldy breadcrusts off the dirty ground.

As for the "we play differently than you and you should respect that" argument: Maybe try applying that shit both ways and respect that people like me are SICK of the Pathfinder grounded experience that doesn't leave anything for flight afterwords. You want a fair situation? Then maybe start by letting flight have some content BEFORE IT'S OBSOLETE. Until then, you're basically only arguing selflishly for what you want without consideration for what others want.

And as long as people continue to rationalize this garbage system, I WILL call them stupid for accepting something so obviously and clearly halfassed out of Blizzard. Even if you 100% only enjoy the grounded gameplay, you should be expecting and demanding better than what amounts to a copy/paste system.

Pot. Kettle?