It's balanced for max level.....

[blankfaced]

It really isn't.

I knew when someone told me Affl was op at 60 they were full of poo. Burst is the only way to go.

[saixilein]

Good Idea to talk about Balance with 150 Itemlvl and no Legendarys/Conduits.

[Yuli]

Indeed. But I'll never understand this "the game shall suck until a bunch of time gated stuff is available" philosophy. Like, is it too much to ask for the game to be good right away?

Both CC and burst are insane atm and it's just not enjoyable. I don't think I've ever experienced getting CC'd and peeled so much, so systematically and so quickly before.

To be fair though, PvP season will start in 2 weeks, and until then I wouldn't expect balance, especially in this system-heavy expansion.

[razorpax]

Indeed. But I'll never understand this "the game shall suck until a bunch of time gated stuff is available" philosophy. Like, is it too much to ask for the game to be good right away?

Both CC and burst are insane atm and it's just not enjoyable. I don't think I've ever experienced getting CC'd and peeled so much, so systematically and so quickly before.

Yes it is too much because you are asking them to balance the game more times

Why isn’t the game balanced around having only half your abilities?

[Atrieus]

I've been playing Affliction. And shredding people.
Always in top 3 of damage in bgs. Not a flex. Just saying that burst isn't the only option.

It is a bit clunky since nobody has leggos and such. The game doesn't really start for a few weeks as with every expansion there's a grace period to let ppl level/explore do whatever.

[callipygoustp]

Hmmm, my aff lock has been kicking ass when some fool alliance decides to attack me while I'm questing.

[Magical Mudcrab]

I knew when someone told me Affl was op at 60 they were full of poo. Burst is the only way to go.

Yes, it was massively nerfed during beta because an Affliction Warlock with the Necrolord covenant was, quite literally, invincible and able to solo teams in arena.

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Just saying that burst isn't the only option.

It's not the only option but, to be quite frank, Ret Paladin and Sub Rogues GCD'ing people is much more terrifying than something like an Aff Lock or Spriest chipping people down.

[blankfaced]

Good Idea to talk about Balance with 150 Itemlvl and no Legendarys/Conduits.

If it's not balanced now what makes you think it will be later? What makes you think adding ilvl and more stats will all of a sudden bring the outlier specs back in line with the rest? The disparities are just going to become more prevalent just like every other time this nonsense got spouted.

Yes it is too much because you are asking them to balance the game more times

Why isn’t the game balanced around having only half your abilities?

So it would've really been that hard to have people in their company play through each class to see how they fair while leveling up? They can't afford 20 hours for each spec?

Yes, it was massively nerfed during beta because an Affliction Warlock with the Necrolord covenant was, quite literally, invincible and able to solo teams in arena.

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It's not the only option but, to be quite frank, Ret Paladin and Sub Rogues GCD'ing people is much more terrifying than something like an Aff Lock or Spriest chipping people down.

Also ret paladins and sub rogues doing the damage they do at max isn't surprising, they're a force from pretty much level 20 and onward. It was almost like they could've seen all the unbalances from the get go if they had just played through their game or something....right?



General Statement: They have a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the work to do when there were 100+ levels....bringing things like aimed shots damage down sub level 50 and adding it back with a rank later isn't really that much of a monumental task in my opinion. Especially when you consider that leveling content is the content you get players hooked, it seems like it's for the best of the health of the game if they don't let ridiculous outliers exist. And after how many times they've tried "X will fix it"? Telling a pvper that gear will fix it is asinine.

[Magical Mudcrab]

If it's not balanced now what makes you think it will be later? What makes you think adding ilvl and more stats will all of a sudden bring the outlier specs back in line with the rest? The disparities are just going to become more prevalent just like every other time this nonsense got spouted.

Classes do not all scale in the same way with gear, which is why minor rebalancing is done from patch-to-patch in order to partially mitigate this. Keep in mind that the major outliers in BfA's final patch were Destro Warlocks and Fire Mages which scale incredibly with specific stats, haste and mastery respectively, in ways that other classes do not and could not keep up with. As of right now we don't know how classes will develop in PvP. Hell, we don't even have a well formed meta yet due to the expansion still being in its infancy.

So it would've really been that hard to have people in their company play through each class to see how they fair while leveling up? They can't afford 20 hours for each spec?

Relative power during the leveling process is irrelevant and has never been an indicator for success in PvP. Take Ret Paladin in BfA, for example. They were fully capable of 1-shotting most mobs during their CDs with TV, but were so underperforming that many multi-Gladiators have opted to reroll, which has continued into Shadowlands (primarily because Ret looks as though it will have some mechanical issues in high-ratings).

Also ret paladins and sub rogues doing the damage they do at max isn't surprising, they're a force from pretty much level 20 and onward. It was almost like they could've seen all the unbalances from the get go if they had just played through their game or something....right?

Power during levelling is not relevant. And, frankly, the dev team cannot be expected to be full time developers, high end mythic raiders and M+ key pushers, and multi Gladiators who also happen to be altaholics. They cannot and will not be able to properly test every class, combination of talents and abilities, etc. by themselves. If you want to blame people, feel free to blame the beta testers who did not make note of the issues you point out early enough to illicit changes.

[mostvp71]

Both CC and burst are insane atm and it's just not enjoyable. I don't think I've ever experienced getting CC'd and peeled so much, so systematically and so quickly before.

Fast paced PvP is way more fun, sure maybe not one shotting but this is a breath of fresh air compared to the slow pace that was BfA. I’m not talking about Sub/Marks damage being fine however, they will nerf that.

CC is also important otherwise it just becomes who crits/can press there buttons first.

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Yeah I'm a kyrian sub rogue and the burst is ridiculous, and with macros it's literally 2 button presses. "Hmm i'm going to intercept that prot pally that's obviously going for our flag. Maybe I'll be able to kill him but at the very least I can buy us some time until he takes the flag"
*prot pally drops dead in 4 secs*
"yeah that works too"

I don't like it because I don't like being a one trick pony, and because whenever my trinket is on CD it means another rogue can just kill me and I can't do anything about it.

Obviously that's going to be nerfed. But it's hilarious that they have fallen, once again, to the good old "what if we stack all our off-the-gcd damage buffs into a macro?"
I don't think it's a huge ask to expect wow's designers to think about this type of scenarios.

Macroing all your cds is very very very bad.

[Sithalos]

PvP has never been balanced, nor will it ever be. Just enjoy the chaos.

[razorpax]

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see the burst situation getting better with time and higher level gear, because versatility increases damage done twice as much as it decreases damage received. So as everyone gears up, everyone's damage increases twice as fast as everyone's damage reduction. I mean, versatility is supposed to be more or less the pvp stat, and traditionally the main purpose of pvp stats was to dampen damage in pvp. I don't see how versatility can do that atm.

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Why do we have to have only half our abilities in the first place if it makes the game suck?

Because leveling rewards are nice

[razorpax]

That's some very backward thinking. "I'm going to attach one arm behind my back because it'll be nice when I eventually get it free"

That’s only true if it’s something removed then given back

You don’t create a new character with all of your abilities then lose them as you level and also leveling is a very small amount of your time. Why would devs spend time to make an experience that will last 10h out of a two year expansion perfect for players who exaggerate the effect

[Schmilblick]

God what is going on in PvP right now ? the burst in insane.

[VinceVega]

It really isn't.

I knew when someone told me Affl was op at 60 they were full of poo. Burst is the only way to go.

Who cares what balance is before a season even started? Right now nobody really cares about it. Or better: You should no care about it. It is just fukcing around a bit before the real stuff starts.
If in two weeks, when everyone has their legendary, it is still unbalanced, different story.

I rather they focus on that, than try to balance stuff for a state of the game that is relevant for one week.

Also: Wow will never be balanced 100%. But it comes close. No class is ever unplayable. The top always has the one spec to rule them all as they use the classes and specs allready with full potential.

[Nuciek]

Seems we had a misunderstanding, my remark was about timegating stuff at max level.

I don't know what specific thing you have on your mind when you talk about timegating. Leggos? Items? 2 weeks of pre-season is timegating? Did you every had top gear and legendary items in first week of expansion? Or are you talking about soulbinds? I agree they are timegated but I also like this idea, because the meta will be evolving all season long.

I don't know what it is with people hating "timegating" so much. WoW by design is timegated, go cry that you want to kill final boss of expansion already, you don't want to wait several patches and clear every raid inbetween. You just want last raid already. Of the last WoW expansion of course. Everything in this game was always timegated and suddenly you people act like something new happened. Raid lockouts anyone? Isn't that timegating? You are playing, and you are rewarded for your effort over time. Do you prefer that or you want everything from the start, and nothing to do for next several months? Maybe we should add vendors in Oribos that sell mythic gear for gold because you are "timegated" with your lockouts and weekly chests. You should be thankful that you don't have any infinite grind anymore and you can just do your "chores" quickly and then enjoy the content that you play. If you play that is.

[MakePvPGreatAgain]

It really isn't.

I knew when someone told me Affl was op at 60 they were full of poo. Burst is the only way to go.

When the expansion is early, usually melees are on top. That's how it is. Casters need more haste (20%) and also more versatility.

But I would like to add, Affliction is one of the hardest spec to master and be good with.

If you want to be relevant (viable), you need to get some conquest gear, wait until mid-season to be able to do something. Of course right now you think it's underpowered, but it's mainly because of gear/skill.

Have a good day!

[razorpax]

Seems we had a misunderstanding, my remark was about timegating stuff at max level.

Well it still kinda works I mean we don’t lose anything and much like leveling you gain stuff through gating (I don’t like the system but it’s better than one where you can burn out)

[Enclave]

Burst is a joke right now

Ice lance does same dmg as full corrouption, dont bother playing dot class

[PingPong]

hey nothing beat like getting one shot by Aimshot + double tap combo right now