To be honest, Anduin is the cancer of story.

[Soon-TM]

I mean you can't resurrect heroes lol

Correct, but that doesn't explain Cairne not using his ultimate And even so, it is very odd that there wasn't a single Altar of Heroes in all of Org so that Vol'jin could resurrect.

[geco]

And who gave you the power to differentiate game mechanics from lore mechanics? Unless stated otherwise, the abilities used by characters in WC3 are canon. Jaina used mass teleport in a WC3 cinematic, so it's safe to say she can use that ability in canon. Therefore you can't say that Uther and other Silver Hand Paladins from the Third War can't use mass resurrect. You're trying to dictate canon in order to prove your point which holds no water.

Except in the case of Tyrande that it seems that the power of the Night war is only to give him the powers that she already had in the W3 XD.

[Sagenod]

Too bad that e.g. Cairne didn't use his resurrection ultimate when he was killed during the Mak'gora with Garry. And why didn't e.g. Liadrin just resurrect Vol'jin instead of just letting him go down? Maybe Genn could have summoned one of his priests to resurrect his son, instead of simply burying him. C'mon.

Well for starters, Reincarnation was changed in WoW to require that an Ankh be held by the Shaman before death, so maybe Cairne did not have one as that would have been a magical advantage, against the rules of Mak'gora.

Vol'jin's pact with Bwonsamdi could have prevented resurrection from being an option to him.

As for Liam, the only thing I can think of is this: We don't fully understand the process of resurrection. All we know from the game text is that it "returns a soul to its owner's dead body." This is done through all sorts of magical types. Perhaps the manner in which Sylvanas slayed Liam prevented his resurrection by typical means?

C'mon

[Gasparde]

Reading this gave me an aneurysma.

[Woobels]

I have no strong opinion on Anduin but he's not a Mary Sue, people really don't know what that term actually means when they throw it out to negatively describe a character like they dislike.

[Soon-TM]

I have no strong opinion on Anduin but he's not a Mary Sue, people really don't know what that term actually means when they throw it out to negatively describe a character like they dislike.

There are several subtypes of Sue, and this one fits the Golden Boi like a glove.

[Aqua]

Huh. I really like Anduin. I like my heroes, well, heroic. I'm not a big fan of "everybody is a morally gray asshole"
Anduin is kind, and has grown into a largely competent leader. I shall be very upset if he dies in this expansion.

This. There are bigger story issues than Anduin's character. He's serviceable for who he is supposed to be. And SOMEONE has to be good to contrast all the shit, I think people forget that.

[Sondrelk]

There are several subtypes of Sue, and this one fits the Golden Boi like a glove.

The problem with that is that Anduin does face challenges though, he has moments where his willingness ot be optimistic and positive about peace, puppies and love is tested. It doesnt happen as often as it likely should, but it does happen.

Anduin assumed a reunification of Forsaken and Human families was possible, leading to the Arathi massacre when he failed to realize Sylvanas was even more evil than he thought.
His desire to see a clean end to the war over a quick one leads to more bloodshed over time, with the only good reason why it didnt end with N'zoth winning being because this being a game presupposes that we will win.

Anduin doesnt go around converting many to his point of view, at best he has suppoerts like Velen who agrees that pacifism is the better option as opposed to Genn, Rogers and recently Tyrande who believe the Horde are monsters.

Anduins faults lie in the writers not giving the game enough room to show his character properly, instead cutting his arcs short.

[Soon-TM]

This. There are bigger story issues than Anduin's character. He's serviceable for who he is supposed to be. And SOMEONE has to be good to contrast all the shit, I think people forget that.

But the shit is only Sylvanas. The rest are completely innocent doves. I mean, just look at Lor'themar, Thrall, Baine, Shandris, Moira (!), even Genn. All of them are carbon copies of Anduin... So much for "someone has to be good".

- - - Updated - - -

The problem with that is that Anduin does face challenges though, he has moments where his willingness ot be optimistic and positive about peace, puppies and love is tested. It doesnt happen as often as it likely should, but it does happen.

It does happen, but the narrative simply avoids discussing the consequences. They are NEVER blamed on Anduin, it's just that Sylvanas was soooo EvVvvViIiiLLll that poor boi couldn't have done anything different. When Anduin's ideals win, it's because of his incorruptible tendency to be good; when Anduin's ideals fail, it's always due to some external, overpowering circumstance. And he's still presented as the model every single leader should adhere to.

[TheRevenantHero]

Well for starters, Reincarnation was changed in WoW to require that an Ankh be held by the Shaman before death, so maybe Cairne did not have one as that would have been a magical advantage, against the rules of Mak'gora.

Vol'jin's pact with Bwonsamdi could have prevented resurrection from being an option to him.

As for Liam, the only thing I can think of is this: We don't fully understand the process of resurrection. All we know from the game text is that it "returns a soul to its owner's dead body." This is done through all sorts of magical types. Perhaps the manner in which Sylvanas slayed Liam prevented his resurrection by typical means?

C'mon

Ok so he can't self-res. Why don't the numerous other shamans resurrect him? Or why didn't one of the paladins do it?

There is nothing in Vol'jin's deal that said "If I die, nothing can return me to life." so you can throw out that point.

Sylvanas shot him with a black arrow. It's just an arrow that does extra shadow damage. Nothing should keep a Gilnean priest from resurrecting him. Ya know.....other than the fact that resurrections don't actually fucking happen in lore so you need to stop conflating game mechanics with lore.

[BreakerOfWills]

How is he a mary sue? first off men aren't called "Mary sue"

Sylvannas is a mary sue, she's made stronger out of no where to defeat whoever she needs to defeat. Anduin is in chains right now he's a prisoner, that's not a mary sue.

We see her jump off icecrown, we see her get resurrected, we see her make several deals for power, increasing in power every time she's done so. The only factor we didn't know was the deal with the jailer, and that literally gets explained in game after she beats bolvar. So what does "out of nowhere" actually mean?

[Shampro]

He is a narrative black hole, and Tyrande is the most annoying bitch in this game along with Malfurion.

[Krowth]

I don't have issues with Anduin, the problem is pretty much every faction leader turning into Anduin. Tyrande is like the only exception so far and I feel like she's either gonna die or convert into Anduism by the end of the expansion.

[Varodoc]

I don't have issues with Anduin, the problem is pretty much every faction leader turning into Anduin. Tyrande is like the only exception so far and I feel like she's either gonna die or convert into Anduism by the end of the expansion.

Alleria and Turalyon are not like Anduin either. I imagine Malfurion is more ruthless as well, when he is not sleeping like the lazy hobo he is.

If anything, Alleria is helping Anduin become more cunning and decisive. In Shadows Rising, Anduin agrees with Alleria that drastic measures will have to be taken if they are to track down the evil psycho Sylvanas. It is JAINA who shows to be spineless and weak, because apparently brain-damaging 3 random people is just TOO MUCH in a world like Azeroth.

Anduin still has so much left to learn, he is just a brat. But, if he is properly instructed, he can become one of the strongest and most resolute leaders in WoW.

[Soon-TM]

She's either gonna die or convert into Anduism by the end of the expansion.

Alas, such is the fate of all who oppose the God King.

[Krowth]

Alleria and Turalyon are not like Anduin either. I imagine Malfurion is more ruthless as well, when he is not sleeping like the lazy hobo he is.

I'm still hoping Turalyon goes full Lux Vult while we're away in the shadowlands.

[Sevarin]

so reading through a lot of these posts... i wonder if people even think about what they say before they say it. im assuming the answer is no.

a large portion of the posts seem to basically boil down to "if you want peace, you are a follower of the lord and savior, god king, golden boy, master anduin."

could it also possibly be that people arent you know.... completely moronic and know the void lords and other massive threats are out there that will destroy us all if we keep killing each other, just because our lord and savior, god banshee queen, golden girl, hot piece of zombie ass (required as most people that like her only seem to like her for that reason), master sylvanas said to?


but no. lets keep having wars, slowly killing off both factions so the impending threats can just walk in and clean up. if you like peace, you just want a piece of anduin ass.

[Soon-TM]

so reading through a lot of these posts... i wonder if people even think about what they say before they say it. im assuming the answer is no.

a large portion of the posts seem to basically boil down to "if you want peace, you are a follower of the lord and savior, god king, golden boy, master anduin."

could it also possibly be that people arent you know.... completely moronic and know the void lords and other massive threats are out there that will destroy us all if we keep killing each other, just because our lord and savior, god banshee queen, golden girl, hot piece of zombie ass (required as most people that like her only seem to like her for that reason), master sylvanas said to?


but no. lets keep having wars, slowly killing off both factions so the impending threats can just walk in and clean up. if you like peace, you just want a piece of anduin ass.

So many words just to say "if you don't like Anduin, you're with Sylvanas". False dichotomy and what not.

[Kaykay]

The problem is when that fantasy of power spoils the fantasy of power of others.

it's easier to just accept that lore went downhill after wc3 / vanilla, and watch the clownfiesta become even more rediculous.

The recent time travel to kill the same people again (wod) wasn't enough, now we go to the dead realm to kill them a 3rd time.

The story has become so uncohesive and character driven (instead of world driven), that expecting them to switch to a more low-chill fantasy setting again is like expecting harry potters next book to be a encyclopedia on the wizard world rather than a story about a whiny boy who grows up to get cucked by his best friend after 5(?) way too long books.