Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Breccia]

That’s actually a point Carlson made... I’m not sure if it’s an intended reference, but he used UFO guests as an example of providing more evidence than Trump’s lawyer.

As a mathematician, I agree. Zero is more than negative.

[Shadowferal]

He lives in Florida.

Not if he's going to prison.
It's likely that his prison will be something of a new thing that the Secret Service will have control of.

[Breccia]

He lives in Florida.

I'd love to see the fracas if NYState tries to drag him back to NYC for trial and Florida tries to block that. I'm neither an expert nor a Space Alien, but maybe @cubby can weigh in: I think the only way one state refuses to extradite is if they themselves have the guy on trial, which means Florida would have to charge him with a crime. True?

[Gelannerai]

You know that's a bad thing right? Like, you do realise why this is a very very bad thing right?

The person you’re quoting doesn’t see that as a bad thing. Their post history paints a picture of a white supremacist authoritarian that cosplays as an independent that has genuine concern for people’s safety. They’ve made numerous posts warning of a second civil war unless people bow down and elect the fascist element to office, but are actually just veiled threats of violence.

[Noxx79]

There's different levels of evidence. And you apparently do not understand them.

In a criminal court, the level of evidence required is most stringent.

In a civil court, there is a bit more leeway. Testimony evidence (such as sworn affidavits from GOP poll monitors) is stronger evidence in civil court and has a greater chance of scoring a victory. That might be enough for people to sue the eternal hell out of several swing states and cost them millions and millions of dollars.

Then there is Trump working with republican state legislatures to convince them to either send the GOP electors or not send any electors. That is NOT a court at ALL. That is just an assembly of representatives. ZERO evidence is legally required (although they may ask for evidence). They could decide the moon is too bright and send the GOP electors. But at the 11th hour, they can look at some testimony by new expert witnesses, decide that is enough, and send Trump back to the White House for second term.

Nope. Stop drinking the fear kool-aid. If the state governments try to perform any shenanigans with the electors, the house can not recognize them. They would have to be approved by house and senate. With no resolution, the vote doesn’t take place and we end up with president pelosi.

All they’re doing is feeding conspiracy theorists and doomsayers like yourself.

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That guy is an avowed democrat so take anything he says with a titanic grain of salt.

And you’re an insane doomsayer, take anything you say with a titanic grain of salt.

Now prove him wrong. Do it or retract your idiocy.

[Breccia]

Biden receives his first Presidential briefing with a goddamn broken foot.

Trump refused to be driven to a graveyard on a massive veteran's day.

[Kaleredar]

Bidens dogs work for the deep state /s. I don't have to worry about my chihuahuas breaking my bones. But it is head scratching to see trump slam the elections saying "we got affidavits alleging fraud, blah blah blah" the election was stolen. Then saying georgia should vote in this fair election.

Talk about missed messages.

I kind of predicted it, though it’s not all that surprising... any vote he lost was rigged. Any one he (or the GOP he still wants on his side) could win? Absolutely legitimate and his followers should turn out in droves.

[Breccia]

"we got affidavits alleging fraud, blah blah blah"

Fine, submit them in court under oath. Until then what you have is noise.

[Endus]

Fine, submit them in court under oath. Until then what you have is noise.

Honestly, I'm kind of at the point where I think anything any politician ever states publicly should be held as being said under oath, and thus prosecutable as perjury if it's a lie.

I'll make allowances that this should only apply to public statements; stuff that's just overheard or stuff said between friends/family, that shouldn't count. But if you call a press conference and lie, or lie to a reporter? Perjury. The only exception should be matters that were classified and thus couldn't be talked about in that venue.

If their voters won't hold 'em to account, let's let the legal system do so.

[Edge-]

https://twitter.com/TPMLiveWire/stat...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

Man Fox looks weird when the hosts are all 6 feet apart, guess the coronavirus is real in the halls of Fox.

Anyways, here we have the Trump Strategy Team (Fox hosts) positing that while there is not enough evidence for the courts to overturn election results, that they really like the idea of bypassing the state votes and having Republican Legislatures send their own electors.

It's a nonsense theory. It's been in discussion for a month or so and it's still going nowhere. But this is where team Trump is right now, I believe waffling between Stage 3 (Bargaining) and Stage 4 (Depression) despite still not being over Stage 2 (Anger). We can only hope the finally get to Stage 5 (Acceptance) sooner rather than later.

[Leobald]

This is shaping up to be a Trump landslide. Multiple reports of Biden getting absolutely steamrolled in Florida. Trump won Florida in 2016 by around 100k votes. Trump is reportedly already ahead in Florida by 200k+ and the working class GOP vote is just now hitting the polling places after work. And yes, these totals include mail-in ballots and early voting.

Biden is smoked.

Word is GOP turnout is at historic proportions. Republicans are coming out and voting like never before.

This quote from Election Day is actually quite funny.

Because yes, Biden got steamrolled in Florida. He didn't lose by the projected 200k votes, he lost by more than 300k.

And yes, GOP turnout was at historic proportions. Republicans came out to vote like never before.

And yet Trump still lost.

[cubby]

I'd love to see the fracas if NYState tries to drag him back to NYC for trial and Florida tries to block that. I'm neither an expert nor a Space Alien, but maybe @cubby can weigh in: I think the only way one state refuses to extradite is if they themselves have the guy on trial, which means Florida would have to charge him with a crime. True?

Essentially, yes. Unless the state who currently has him in custody wants to prosecute, the state requesting extradition can essentially come and get him. If the resident state (in this case FL) doesn't cooperate, they can request assistance from the U.S. Marshalls office.

And yeah, it would be quite the fracas.

I'm not sure criminal charges are going to be pursued right off the bat, at least directly at Trump. I would expect the NYAG's Office and the Manhattan DA's office will go after criminal activity from the Trump Organization, and affiliated businesses. They can seize assets without jumping into the quite large issue of indicting a former President.

And even better, if Trump Pardon's himself (which is highly likely), it will not prevent his businesses and assets from being seized. Those cannot be "pardoned". I sincerely hope they go after his Mar-la-go-fuck-himself.

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And remember, if you're getting down about the severe damage Trump and his insane fan base and rabidly and willfully ignorant enablers are doing to our country's election system, just take a quick tour of the Donald J. Trump Residential Library.

[Felya]

It's 2016 for the other side now. No less entertaining but remember we have enough people that still haven't accepted that trump won. Now it's the other side turn. My advice? Turn what they did in 2016 against them. #stillyourpresident.

I have been living off copium for weeks... my YouTube feed is ruined...

[beanman12345]

I have been living off copium for weeks... my YouTube feed is ruined...

It's been kinda nice to not see all the trumpsters/totally not trumpsters around this thread for a few weeks, but also sad cause we haven't gotten any copium here. I'm glad @Kokolums is back from his forced vacation to provide us with some.

[dextersmith]

https://twitter.com/TPMLiveWire/stat...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

Man Fox looks weird when the hosts are all 6 feet apart, guess the coronavirus is real in the halls of Fox.

Anyways, here we have the Trump Strategy Team (Fox hosts) positing that while there is not enough evidence for the courts to overturn election results, that they really like the idea of bypassing the state votes and having Republican Legislatures send their own electors.

It's a nonsense theory. It's been in discussion for a month or so and it's still going nowhere. But this is where team Trump is right now, I believe waffling between Stage 3 (Bargaining) and Stage 4 (Depression) despite still not being over Stage 2 (Anger). We can only hope the finally get to Stage 5 (Acceptance) sooner rather than later.

I don't know how people of a country founded on democracy and freedom can say Fuck the entire system, the people and their wishes, and endorse me as I try to conquer this place and everyone within it.

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Essentially, yes. Unless the state who currently has him in custody wants to prosecute, the state requesting extradition can essentially come and get him. If the resident state (in this case FL) doesn't cooperate, they can request assistance from the U.S. Marshalls office.

And yeah, it would be quite the fracas.

I'm not sure criminal charges are going to be pursued right off the bat, at least directly at Trump. I would expect the NYAG's Office and the Manhattan DA's office will go after criminal activity from the Trump Organization, and affiliated businesses. They can seize assets without jumping into the quite large issue of indicting a former President.

And even better, if Trump Pardon's himself (which is highly likely), it will not prevent his businesses and assets from being seized. Those cannot be "pardoned". I sincerely hope they go after his Mar-la-go-fuck-himself.

- - - Updated - - -

And remember, if you're getting down about the severe damage Trump and his insane fan base and rabidly and willfully ignorant enablers are doing to our country's election system, just take a quick tour of the Donald J. Trump Residential Library.

How can he pardon himself from a conviction that has not yet happened? By the time he gets charged, he won't be president anymore and won't be able to pardon anything.

[Belize]

I don't know how people of a country founded on democracy and freedom can say Fuck the entire system, the people and their wishes, and endorse me as I try to conquer this place and everyone within it.

Republicans haven't exactly hidden their wish to enforce a theocratic dictatorship.

[cubby]

How can he pardon himself from a conviction that has not yet happened? By the time he gets charged, he won't be president anymore and won't be able to pardon anything.

Nixon was pre-Pardoned by Ford after Nixon resigned. The only issue is whether Trump can Pardon himself - and his SCOTUS will be deciding that, if it goes to the courts.

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Republicans haven't exactly hidden their wish to enforce a theocratic dictatorship.

The world they want to create, or at least are ok being created, is truly frightening.

[PhaelixWW]

Nixon was pre-Pardoned by Ford after Nixon resigned. The only issue is whether Trump can Pardon himself - and his SCOTUS will be deciding that, if it goes to the courts.

To be fair, Ford issued the pardon, but its legitimacy was never challenged in court. If Trump pardons himself, then it could still go before the SCOTUS to decide whether pre-pardoning is valid.

Also, per case law, in order for Trump to accept his own pardon for a specific crime, he'd have to admit guilt for said crime. If he's never charged with a specific crime, then he never has to openly admit his guilt in order to claim his pardon, so going through the above court case would be eminently worth it, from my perspective.

Let Trump pardon himself for federal crimes, formally charge him in order to force him to admit guilt, then let him be immune to federal charges while you have a slam-dunk series of non-federal charges armed with his admission of guilt.

[Xeones]

That guy is an avowed democrat so take anything he says with a titanic grain of salt.

He is directly quoting and explaining law concepts, he even (apparently) looked up some law school notes to see when they started teaching one of the concepts Rudy fucked up.

What exactly am I supposed to take with a grain of salt?

[beanman12345]

To be fair, Ford issued the pardon, but its legitimacy was never challenged in court. If Trump pardons himself, then it could still go before the SCOTUS to decide whether pre-pardoning is valid.

Also, per case law, in order for Trump to accept his own pardon for a specific crime, he'd have to admit guilt for said crime. If he's never charged with a specific crime, then he never has to openly admit his guilt in order to claim his pardon, so going through the above court case would be eminently worth it, from my perspective.

Let Trump pardon himself for federal crimes, formally charge him in order to force him to admit guilt, then let him be immune to federal charges while you have a slam-dunk series of non-federal charges armed with his admission of guilt.

Unfortunately there is precedent for a president to use pardons to completely exonerate people, if they think the person is actually innocent. Trump has done this, Ford did it, HW Bush did it. It's rarely done, but trump has been drumming up the unfairness, witch hunt, bullshit where my guess is, he'll pardon himself, claim exoneration(even though it'll just be another lie), and my guess, even if it goes to SCOTUS, they'll let him off anyways, and then even more precedent for this kind of shit to happen further down the line.