Afrasiabi left Blizzard?

[TheRevenantHero]

Yeah, she's a highly experienced writer. The fact that your only criticisms here appear to be lore nitpicks (albeit ones a lot of people would have caught) speaks volumes, frankly. If you compare era where she's been writing to previous ones, the dialogue, motivation and so on for the characters are vastly improved. That's not all her - the improvement started in WoD (well, it started in MoP from a certain perspective, but I'd say not), and particularly in Legion, but is even more obvious in BfA and SL, which are just drastically better-written in terms of what characters say and how they say it. It doesn't really matter what what she's experienced with isn't super-high-quality stuff, because it's still higher-quality than most MMORPG writing.

(As an aside, it's interesting that some writers can write great stuff for games, but shit-tier novels - Drew Karpyshyn of Mass Effect 1/2 fame is a good example (he also wrote good stuff for SWTOR and other things). Great in-game, terrible novels. Novel/comic-book writers tend to do decently when writing for games, but even then there are exceptions - I can't remember a great example off the top of my head but I bet someone can.)



This is just sad.

You clearly don't know what a decision-maker is (I kind of wonder what job you can possible do and be so divorced from reality on this), or are desperately hoping that I don't, and I go with this bullshit definition you want to use which is "has influence". No. Decision-makers are the people who have the final say. By your logic, most employees at a well-run businesses is "decision-maker", because they have some influence on decisions. But that's nonsense. In my job, I have have absolutely massive influence over certain decisions, people listen to me or seek out my advice, but my actual decision-making power is virtually non-existent, because I don't get the final say. Thus I'm not a decision-maker. Neither is Golden.

The idea that someone pitching ideas is a decision-maker is particularly deliciously ignorant.

Christie Golden is a highly experienced writer in the same way that Stephenie Meyer and E.L. James are highly experiences writers. She's pumped out some books but most of them were meh at best and she doesn't give a fuck about being consistent with the rest of the lore. And once again SHE'S A SENIOR WRITER for the company. Saying she doesn't make decisions for the lore beats is either you being accidentally or purposely ignorant.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

And once again SHE'S A SENIOR WRITER for the company. Saying she doesn't make decisions for the lore beats is either you being accidentally or purposely ignorant.

To quote golden her self.

I am not "in charge" of the WoW story. I don't even work for the WoW team, I work for CDev/SFD, where I interact with all the game teams. I do not direct where the game is going. I write cinematics, novels/novellas, song lyrics (Hearthstone yay) and comics,

Sadly no, I don't work for either the WoW game team or Lore, so I'm not authorized to definitively state anything.

https://twitter.com/ChristieGolden/s...45036005531648
https://twitter.com/ChristieGolden/s...98236299653120

unless you got something to prove she's lying your just making up a conspiracy theory and laughably calling people who don't follow it ignorant.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Quality vs quantity. If all the in-game mounts matched the quality of the store mounts I doubt there would be nearly as much complaining about them.

Each to their own, but I would not be inclined to call the Store mounts "higher quality" than every single mount also obtainable in-game at this point. I find most of the store mounts... gaudy, if that makes sense?

Out of the store mounts added throughout BfA, only the mecha-dragon wowed me, as in I might've paid extra for it had it not been given as a promotion. Even if all 50 mounts added in-game cannot be described as top quality, there are still more of them to an expansion than there are store mounts added.

That being said, I'd like to see them focus less on entirely new models (that includes store mounts even if I get them as promo) and more on updating the many many many many many many many mounts still suffering from a bad case of the 2004's on a visual/animation level. Hoping the many updated horses, sabers, rams etc are building up to such an effort.

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To quote golden her self.


https://twitter.com/ChristieGolden/s...45036005531648
https://twitter.com/ChristieGolden/s...98236299653120

unless you got something to prove she's lying your just making up a conspiracy theory and laughably calling people who don't follow it ignorant.

Amazing how people have such a hard-on for hating her still, even after all the clarifications that have been put out there...

[SirCowdog]

Each to their own, but I would not be inclined to call the Store mounts "higher quality" than every single mount also obtainable in-game at this point. I find most of the store mounts... gaudy, if that makes sense?

Oh, don't get me wrong. I agree that most of the store mounts are gaudy. But when you look at the store mounts in general, in terms of quality and obvious amount of work put into them by the devs, it seems clear to me that they're a step above most of the in-game mounts. Sure, there will be exceptions and personal preference. But looked at objectively I think it's clear that the store mounts are intentionally of higher overall quality in order to make them more attractive as a purchase.

I'm not saying this as fact. Just as my opinion on how it appears to me. I have an extreme dislike for any cash shop items on top of a box price AND a subscription. So that's probably coloring my perceptions somewhat.

[Lasombria]

Why do we care?

Guy spent 16 years in one company, it's only natural he moves on.

This. Now, I don't work in computer gaming, but a lot of my friends do, and have since the '90s. 16 years is, for the field, quite a long run at one place. Many people in it never get more than like 2-5 years at any one studio. And while every game has some fans who think that its creators should dedicate their whole lives to it and never want to do anything else, that's not how it goes. The overwhelming majority have middling to lengthy lists of things they'd also like to do - different genres, different kinds of studio organization, a chance to work with individuals they like, etc. They could also want to change locale, for a zillion reasons. But that someone would move on after 16 years is right about as surprising as the sun coming up each and every day.

[Swnem]

Good, now fire Ion and maybe WoW can be a decent MMO again.

How did that work when you wished Ghostcrawler fired? Learned nothing have you?

[Gadzooks]

Each to their own, but I would not be inclined to call the Store mounts "higher quality" than every single mount also obtainable in-game at this point. I find most of the store mounts... gaudy, if that makes sense?

Out of the store mounts added throughout BfA, only the mecha-dragon wowed me, as in I might've paid extra for it had it not been given as a promotion. Even if all 50 mounts added in-game cannot be described as top quality, there are still more of them to an expansion than there are store mounts added.

That being said, I'd like to see them focus less on entirely new models (that includes store mounts even if I get them as promo) and more on updating the many many many many many many many mounts still suffering from a bad case of the 2004's on a visual/animation level. Hoping the many updated horses, sabers, rams etc are building up to such an effort.

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Amazing how people have such a hard-on for hating her still, even after all the clarifications that have been put out there...

There are many people here, and on most WoW related forums, that simply won't listen. Even Roux said in an interview, she's given a direction to go in, what the story beats are, and she's given some leeway for small things - but they don't even tell her what the story is, past what she needs for the book.

Golden's books were, in my opinion, pretty bad. But they're pro-fan fiction, they're not the same level as truly talented novelists who write their own universes, not in someone else's. But she's done a pretty good job doing the cinematics, you have to give her credit for that.

Hell, I'll even go so far as saying if they fired Danuser and put her in his place, it would improve the game. I have no regard for Danuser as a writer at all.

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The problem isn't the writers. The problem is Activision. If they got new writers the writing would continue to be stunted and feel bad. This is never going to change while WoW is under Activision's yoke, that is to say... it is never going to change. WoW has never really had good writing though, the last time Blizzard had a game with a truly good story was Warcraft III. Long before Activision was even a vague consideration...

Not that I am defending WoW's writing, as it is as bad as ever in many ways. The best I can hope for is that it is entertaining, which it sometimes is able to be still. It could be a lot worse...

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A good point. While it's possible he was just fired as Moana said earlier, I don't think this is the case, unless the guy got fired and just decided to retire early, and Activision just decided to make it a non-event? I don't know, it feels off.

It could also be he left to join another studio, like Morhaime's new company, or the one Metzen just announced, and he's cooling his jets under a non-compete clause in his contract.

But who am I to get in the way of a good conspiracy theory. It's this site's stock in trade.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I agree that most of the store mounts are gaudy. But when you look at the store mounts in general, in terms of quality and obvious amount of work put into them by the devs, it seems clear to me that they're a step above most of the in-game mounts. Sure, there will be exceptions and personal preference. But looked at objectively I think it's clear that the store mounts are intentionally of higher overall quality in order to make them more attractive as a purchase.

I'm not saying this as fact. Just as my opinion on how it appears to me. I have an extreme dislike for any cash shop items on top of a box price AND a subscription. So that's probably coloring my perceptions somewhat.

You know, I'm inclined to agree with you, upon closer inspection. They're gaudy as all hell and then some, but many of the store mounts added in recent years have entirely unique animations to them, and very VERY detailed ornaments. Hell, take the Winged Guardian from way back in Cataclysm. This expansion, we've gotten Larion mounts, based on the Winged Guardian, but with far fewer impressive details to them. No "braids", no glow effects and faces that are simply not very deep in detail. At all.

Have we gotten high quality in-game mounts? Sure, but not a single one is perfectly unique. They're either based on the skeleton of another mount, or they're reused ad nauseam. The most egregious example would be the N'Zoth mount. It has a unique look (which I'm sure they'll reuse) but the skeleton is not new. Same for the Argus 100% mount, it is clearly based on the Quilen mounts when it comes to animations.

I noticed to boot that they're selling the MoP Collector's Edition mount as a standalone in the store. Jaysus...

Yeah, the store can go. And character services should have their price cut in half. Sadly, as long as players keep buying, it'll keep existing. I'd remove the store, make a mount or transmog set every 6 months that goes ONLY to 6-month subscribers for a limited period of time. Slash the prices on character services, and you're golden.

[Gurahk]

Fuck, so that means his promise of "We're gonna fire that goblin cannon in Azshara" is never going to happen, is it.

[SirBeef]

Agreeing, and there's something even stranger.

Changing jobs involves starting a new one - and it seemed unclear what that job is. It could be that he enjoys early retirement, or it's a new super-secret project - but otherwise it is odd: Linkedin is used both to announce your new job to the world - or to announce that you are looking for a new one.

Typically it's the person who leaves that makes these announcements/blue posts. Blizzard is under no obligation to tell you when anyone leaves, especially if they are fired. There could have been some breakage of a non compete agreement that prevents them, or maybe some other legal issue. Maybe he left on good terms and didn't need to say goodbye. There are many possible reasons why we don't know, none are concerning at all to me.

Maybe they guy likes to stay low key. Sure he made a big stink when he was a kid playing EQ, but he's been a pretty low key player for how big he was in WoW.

[Forogil]

Typically it's the person who leaves that makes these announcements/blue posts. Blizzard is under no obligation to tell you when anyone leaves, especially if they are fired. There could have been some breakage of a non compete agreement that prevents them, or maybe some other legal issue. Maybe he left on good terms and didn't need to say goodbye. There are many possible reasons why we don't know, none are concerning at all to me.

I didn't expect him to make a post about it, but I find it odd to that he removed his LinkedIn-page - as it's intended to tell old friends where you are, and tell prospective employers that you are available.

I can understand people not having a LinkedIn-page at all or deleting it at some point - but doing it after leaving a job is odd.
(He deleted his Twitter account a few years ago, nothing odd with that.)

But we don't have more information so it's just speculation at this point.

[SirCowdog]

Yeah, the store can go. And character services should have their price cut in half. Sadly, as long as players keep buying, it'll keep existing. I'd remove the store, make a mount or transmog set every 6 months that goes ONLY to 6-month subscribers for a limited period of time. Slash the prices on character services, and you're golden.

Thus does the nature of the F2P model, and by extension the mobile market, influence gaming as a whole. There are a LOT of people who willingly drop money as a way to pay to get ahead. But for every person that calculates and consciously decides to make a purchase within their means, there's another 10 who are victims of impulse-driven purchases, or psychological manipulation.

It's really not something I ever wanted to see in the gaming industry. But with the profits being as large as they are, I guess it was inevitable. I'd rather have this golden age of gaming than the oldschool nerd niche culture and lack of options. But the predatory business models really piss me off.

Just make a good, quality game, and people will pay for it. There's literally no reason to bank on cash shops and MTX to make a profit in a B2P game with a subscription.

[Oneirophobia]

As a reminder:
He, among other things, created the Thunderfury questchain (which is cool)
He also was the guy that tweeted "There is only one Legion across all realities" (which is just bad) - i still remember how WoWpedia had an extra (alternate Universe) page for every demon that appeared in WoD (such as Mannoroth) and then deleted all of them shortly after he tweeted that.

I think that was legitimately something the whole creative department came up with as opposed to just him coming up with it, spur of the moment. The previous expansion reiterated that these big ol' cosmic forces seem to permeate all realities, and it's AGAIN repeated in Shadowlands.

I think they really just didn't want to deal with the can of worms multiple timelines / parallel universes opens up so they decided those things simply can't exist in a greater capacity, and our reality is the only REAL reality.

Either way, is Afrasiabi the first big timer to leave quietly?

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Fuck, so that means his promise of "We're gonna fire that goblin cannon in Azshara" is never going to happen, is it.

Let's be real, it would have exploded to an audience laugh track, and the goblins would get crammed back into Orgrimmar.

[Freeghost]

Quite frankly, it doesn't surprise me.

Afrasiabi is a perfect example of the peter principle, he got promoted until he reached a point where he was no longer able to do his job properly due to a lack of skills.
He started out as a quest designer for WoW and nearly a decade later ended up being some lead position as far as the story is concerned.

It takes no genius to figure out that being a former Everquest player and having written some questchains for Vanilla is not enough to be in a leadership role, especially when the Blizzard has bigger narrative ambitions for the game and wants to move away from the more simplistic storytelling of the past.

Whether he left, was "asked to leave" or got booted is another story, but the dude simply didn't have what was needed for this position.

As a reminder:
He, among other things, created the Thunderfury questchain (which is cool)
He also was the guy that tweeted "There is only one Legion across all realities" (which is just bad) - i still remember how WoWpedia had an extra (alternate Universe) page for every demon that appeared in WoD (such as Mannoroth) and then deleted all of them shortly after he tweeted that.

Dont u think that he might have learned something during those 15 years ? Plus you dont have the slightest idea what he did those 15 years apart from some small shit in vanilla.
I mean it doesnt even take you 6 years to become a doctor. I reckon its far easier to get qualified for his position in 15 years.

[Shadowferal]

I mean it doesnt even take you 6 years to become a doctor. I reckon its far easier to get qualified for his position in 15 years.

O rly?
The medical profession would like to have a word with you.

[Beloren]

The problem isn't the writers. The problem is Activision. If they got new writers the writing would continue to be stunted and feel bad. This is never going to change while WoW is under Activision's yoke, that is to say... it is never going to change. WoW has never really had good writing though, the last time Blizzard had a game with a truly good story was Warcraft III. Long before Activision was even a vague consideration...

Not that I am defending WoW's writing, as it is as bad as ever in many ways. The best I can hope for is that it is entertaining, which it sometimes is able to be still. It could be a lot worse...
.

How exactly is that Activision's fault?

Granted i agree in part, it's not entirely the writers fault, but the executive branch at blizzard that decides what the priorities are and where to focus talent and resources.. if you don't value the importance of the story, you are not going to ensure you have world class staff like you ding in art and programming or the best in the business like you do in systems, nor will you allow story to dictate, drive and influence the game primarily or devote resources in game to doing it well - world class level of good.

these are things that the blizzard bosses decide, the wow project isn't that micromanaged by ACTivision. It's your beloved blizzard that chose not to take their once great story and world building lore that seriously in their flagship game.

[ravenmoon]

What the fuck?

Why?

Golden isn't some useless old-guard dude who got hired with zero experience and zero talent.

Golden got hired because she's hard-working and highly experienced at what she does. She's not even a decision-maker. If you've got problems with WoW's story, maybe take it up with Danuser, who is a decision-maker about it, or I dunno, the ex-creative-director, Alex Afrasiabi, who is in charge of that and subject of this thread. Shitting on a random writer, who you probably only know the name of because she's female, seems pretty fucking weird mate. Asking to fire an actual worker for the boss' decision is a lot of what's wrong with the world today, frankly. All we actually know about her is that she's a bit better at writing than some of the people who write for Blizzard.

Woe betide you don't enthrone the horde as gods above all, the horde fanboi crowd on MMO champion would crucify as a warning to any potential writer who doesn't make them come off good.

Ofc, when you shit on the alliance, you make them happy and your job is safe - at least as long as blizzard keep listening to the biased and very loud hardcore horde fanbase rather than use their heads and write both factions well for the story.

Golden' ofc is not at fault, she doesn't determine that the horde come off bad, or the end results and plot of the story, she gets told what happens, and she is suppose to flesh it out and make it engaging. if the plot is terrible or you don't like the outcome, it isn't Golden's fault at all, cos she doesn't decide that. That's an Afrisiabi/Danuser problem.
I agree with you, there is no point shitting on Golden. The same fanboys use to love her when she use to exclusively write horde stories, but woah, a story that an alliance character looks amazing or enviable or the horde isn't your white knight and she swings from so called fan favourite (which in reality is horde fan favourite) to hated (i.e. hated by horde fan bois)

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lmfao WHAT?! I don't even know where to begin. All the lore she's written has been utter trash and further pushes the tired idea of "horde bad Alliance good". She also gave worgen TAILS for no god damned reason. I'm not "shitting on a random writer" and it has nothing to do with her gender. Not sure why you had to make it about gender. She's a SENIOR writer at Blizzard. Which means she actually has a good amount of pull. She's really not better at writing than some of the people at Blizzard. I actually think her writing is atrocious and her butchering of lore makes me hate her more. Notice how the lore went incredibly downhill after she was hired...hmmmmmm....

She can't butcher the lore, she doesn't decide such things. If that's why you hate her, it's pointless.

[SirBeef]

O rly?
The medical profession would like to have a word with you.

No shit. It can take from 11-15 to be come a doctor. 4 year undergrad, 4 year medical school, then 3-7 years of residency and specialization if one chooses. Minus 4 if you go back to be one and already have your undergrad. That still places it at 7 years.

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Woe betide you don't enthrone the horde as gods above all, the horde fanboi crowd on MMO champion would crucify as a warning to any potential writer who doesn't make them come off good.

Ofc, when you shit on the alliance, you make them happy and your job is safe - at least as long as blizzard keep listening to the biased and very loud hardcore horde fanbase rather than use their heads and write both factions well for the story.

Golden' ofc is not at fault, she doesn't determine that the horde come off bad, or the end results and plot of the story, she gets told what happens, and she is suppose to flesh it out and make it engaging. if the plot is terrible or you don't like the outcome, it isn't Golden's fault at all, cos she doesn't decide that. That's an Afrisiabi/Danuser problem.
I agree with you, there is no point shitting on Golden. The same fanboys use to love her when she use to exclusively write horde stories, but woah, a story that an alliance character looks amazing or enviable or the horde isn't your white knight and she swings from so called fan favourite (which in reality is horde fan favourite) to hated (i.e. hated by horde fan bois)

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She can't butcher the lore, she doesn't decide such things. If that's why you hate her, it's pointless.

From my experience here, it's really becasue she's a woman is why she gets the hate.

[Kralljin]

I think that was legitimately something the whole creative department came up with as opposed to just him coming up with it, spur of the moment.

Considering they fucked that up so badly as it was utterly unclear from the game to the point where they had to explain it on social media, that also reflects on the individuals of the team.

I think they really just didn't want to deal with the can of worms multiple timelines / parallel universes opens up so they decided those things simply can't exist in a greater capacity, and our reality is the only REAL reality.

The bloody irony is precisely that it would have been simpler to assume that an AU counterpart for everything exists.

You have to look at this way:
In theory, all alternate realities could team up, get into the Twisting Nether and fuck the Burning Legion to pieces there, as infinite Universes eixst but only one Twisting Nether.
Not to mention that a Demon then needs to constantly present in every Universe for that Universe to make remotely sense, there are multiple universes similiar to ours, meaning that every demon that has intefered into the story of our Timeline needs to also intefere into that of the similiar ones.
Which is pretty tricky when there is only one demon, imagine how many times Mannoroth must have shown up during the Third War of every timeline only then to an Axe to the chest from Grom?
One assumes he'd learn from that, which however then would fundamentally alter that timeline.

Not to menion that it means of beings that start off as Mortals, then become demons (such Eredar).

It's a complete clusterfuck.

Either way, is Afrasiabi the first big timer to leave quietly?

Can't think of one more known veteran at Blizzard who at least didn't have some sort of announcement on Twitter or anywhere else.

Dont u think that he might have learned something during those 15 years ? Plus you dont have the slightest idea what he did those 15 years apart from some small shit in vanilla.

It's possible, but considering Blizzard has been heavily hiring people into the story department and him just slowly fading into background without any announcement, implies that he may have been not the best person for the job.

And as a creative director, one can assume that he has worked on the overarching story of Warcraft and looking back at the last ~10 years of Lore, it's not something i'd want my name on it.

I mean, let's compare it to Metzen, a guy who has had no real experience in terms of storytelling, when he left, he got a fucking statue.

[Radaney]

BREAKING: People change jobs sometimes

16 yrs 4 months.