How can you write off an xpac that literally just launched?

[Deferionus]

Even in BC and Wrath, you could tell the systems that were in place during the leveling process as well as pretty early upon reaching max level. There was a lot to do (double the dungeons for example) and even professions had something to aspire towards. You had new races or class with corresponding new zones. Raids were linear...you didn't just do the latest raid.

Everything in this expansion is lazy. This is truly Legion 1.75 (BfA was Legion 1.5). Even lazier than BfA...there is one storyline forward and 2/3 of the zones. The same low number of dungeons. No new classes (again) and no new races (no, allied races are not actual races...races should at least include their own zones with full stories).

If you can't see this, then I don't know what to tell you besides open your eyes, look around, and start thinking about what used to be included in a full priced expansion.

Wrath and BC both had less to do than any of the previous four expansions, and don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved both of them. In some aspects less is more because it lets players do what they enjoy doing. Wrath and BC I did tons of world PvP because I did not have to spend times of time on power progression systems. Only argument you can make for Wrath having more content is multiple locks on a single raid and BC you had attunements for raids (which I honestly thought was great.)

[TheFirstOnes]

Story can be better. Than again, Legion, MoP, etc had wacky stories since launch. Outside of that, as well as Renown, this Expansion's been really good so far. PVP is fun again, which is honestly great.

[NordWitcher]

It is a solid expansion, probably the best since Pandaria.

I would have said that if some of the classes were fun to play. Seems like most classes lost a lot more than they gained. Some of the OP classes are just clunky to play. In MoP most classes and specs were fun across the board.

Right now every class just feels nerfed hard. You lost a lot of haste with the way stat scaling works. They scaled the numbers down by a lot where it never felt like I was never growing in power. I started out at level 50 pulling around 1k - 1.4K DPS. Am level 60 151 ilevel and pulling .3 more DPS so around 1.6-1.7k. Any item upgrade is only a upgrade by a single stat number.

Demon Hunters feel like a mess. They lost out on a lot and never got anything in place. They lost their dot from add dance for example. Their leech is terrible. They feel more rogue like than anything, sitting there waiting on procs and just auto attacking. Fury Warriors are fun but the numbers are so under tuned. BM Hunters lost a lot of haste and their numbers are low as well and have huge pet survivability issues.

[Unholyground]

I would have said that if some of the classes were fun to play. Seems like most classes lost a lot more than they gained. Some of the OP classes are just clunky to play. In MoP most classes and specs were fun across the board.

Right now every class just feels nerfed hard. You lost a lot of haste with the way stat scaling works. They scaled the numbers down by a lot where it never felt like I was never growing in power. I started out at level 50 pulling around 1k - 1.4K DPS. Am level 60 151 ilevel and pulling .3 more DPS so around 1.6-1.7k. Any item upgrade is only a upgrade by a single stat number.

Demon Hunters feel like a mess. They lost out on a lot and never got anything in place. They lost their dot from add dance for example. Their leech is terrible. They feel more rogue like than anything, sitting there waiting on procs and just auto attacking. Fury Warriors are fun but the numbers are so under tuned. BM Hunters lost a lot of haste and their numbers are low as well and have huge pet survivability issues.

We are always low powered at the beginning of each expansion, you cannot use that as a negative because it has been happening since TBC. I do agree some classes did not get enough love but that also happens every expansion lol.

[arkanon]

Some people look for an immediate hook and if they don't get it... they move on.

I believe an immediate hook is mandatory in modern gaming. The competition is just far too strong to rely on "it might improve", and this issue is compounded when you are also asking for a monthly financial commitment to the game. I realize the sub isnt a lot of money for many people, but when you can buy some amazing games on steam or console for half the price of one month sub, its clear why some give it a go for a few weeks, and if they are not enjoying it, move on to something else.

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We are always low powered at the beginning of each expansion, you cannot use that as a negative because it has been happening since TBC. I do agree some classes did not get enough love but that also happens every expansion lol.

Someone absolutely can use that as a negative - they just cant claim its something new. Again, the promise of "it might get better" just isnt enough in the modern gaming climate.

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I would have said that if some of the classes were fun to play. Seems like most classes lost a lot more than they gained. Some of the OP classes are just clunky to play. In MoP most classes and specs were fun across the board.

Right now every class just feels nerfed hard. You lost a lot of haste with the way stat scaling works. They scaled the numbers down by a lot where it never felt like I was never growing in power. I started out at level 50 pulling around 1k - 1.4K DPS. Am level 60 151 ilevel and pulling .3 more DPS so around 1.6-1.7k. Any item upgrade is only a upgrade by a single stat number.

Demon Hunters feel like a mess. They lost out on a lot and never got anything in place. They lost their dot from add dance for example. Their leech is terrible. They feel more rogue like than anything, sitting there waiting on procs and just auto attacking. Fury Warriors are fun but the numbers are so under tuned. BM Hunters lost a lot of haste and their numbers are low as well and have huge pet survivability issues.

DH lost leech in meta right? I might be wrong i dont play my DH anymore, but i have seen a few people complain about that, and tbh, i can understand that frustration - it was pretty boss being able to pop meta and become some OP mega tank for a short while. I actually agree about fury though - although not a complete dumpster fire, i definitely feel underwhelmed when i look at the meter.

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Do you go outside that McDonald's and harass people that are going in? Telling them that they d hate McDonald's like you do?

This is a discussion forum.....what you are looking for is an echo chamber. Your comparison doesnt work either, no one is picketing outside Blizzard HQ or standing outside the game store telling people not to buy or play SL - just expressing their opinion.

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My class feels great to play, casual PVP doesn't suck anymore, I'm having tons of fun. I also didn't expect to like Torghast this much.



I, for one, am excited for wow being fun again. And I feel sorry for people who feel otherwise

Why would you feel sorry for people who enjoy different things? I dont understand that at all.

[Zenfoldor]

Naa, BFA and Legion were far worse..

Legion was best xpak.

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reddit: this expac is awesome
official forums: i'm having so much fun
twitter/facebook/instagram: man, it's wonderful
wowhead: yep, there are some flaws, but it's very good
mmoc crowd: uuuuugh, it's DogShIT

haters gonna hate, but expac has potential to be the best iteration of wow ever

To be completely fair, I think the overall reaction here has been pretty positive.

[arkanon]

If you don't care about rep, achievements, toys, pets, mounts, mogs, leggos, and gear then there's nothing to do. The only people who say "there's nothing to do" are people who honestly don't give a shit about the game content and just want to complain.

See i called this reply earlier - someone ALWAYS comes up with the laundry list of optional content in the game and says "unless you have done all of these things, you are just a negative nancy and your opinion doesnt count". People are not saying those who enjoy it are wrong - some are just saying "i am not motivated to engage in any of the optional content, for a variety of reasons". Sometimes its because they just dont enjoy that content type - you cant say someone is unable to write off SL unless they have captured every pet in the game, thats silly.

Some people still believe in quality over quantity, and would prefer to have one really engaging and meaningful progression path, with engaging and fun classes. Some want multiple progression paths, meaningful leveling, casual content like pet battles and reps to grind. Everyone is different, and i honestly think its absolutely fine for someone this early to say "this is not for me, i dont enjoy this".

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To be completely fair, I think the overall reaction here has been pretty positive.

I agree - although there is obviously criticism, i think the overall reception from this little corner of the internet has been quite positive.

[Kuruption]

Because a lot of people love to hate WoW no matter how good it is.

[Stormspellz]

because we the players have gone through this song and dance before, 15 years of it to be exact, the next patch will have a "najatar" zone maybe in the drust world or something to do with Helia, they will expand the convent powers in some way along with daily chores to do and so on.

[Koriani]

It's Oribos, it is has the exact same shape and concept as the Fleets in SWTOR, with a Quarter of the ring for every important thing. A friend and me have had that feeling too. I prefered Boralus too, but this is not so bad.

Now I see it...(the parallel to SWTOR Fleet) LOL.

Honestly, when me and friends were touring Oribos the first time it reminded me of Ironforge more than anything - but what you describe is also Ironforge. Big Ring with quarters for different NPC groupings.

At least with SWTOR Fleets and Ironforge you aren't limited to mount riding through the center :/.

[cparle87]

Take a deep breath, you're leaking.

Rep, transmog, and Legendaries are all throttled, what are you on about?

What I'm on about is that "there's nothing to do" is a flat out lie. I've been playing 10+ hours a day lately running around the zones doing world quests and hunting every rare that drops something, whether it's a mog look, mount, pet, or toy. And maybe squeezing in a few dungeons when they have quests for bonus chance at leggos. And that's only one character. For anyone to say that there's nothing to do means that none of the content in the game matters to them and I wonder why they're even playing

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See i called this reply earlier - someone ALWAYS comes up with the laundry list of optional content in the game and says "unless you have done all of these things, you are just a negative nancy and your opinion doesnt count". People are not saying those who enjoy it are wrong - some are just saying "i am not motivated to engage in any of the optional content, for a variety of reasons". Sometimes its because they just dont enjoy that content type - you cant say someone is unable to write off SL unless they have captured every pet in the game, thats silly.

Some people still believe in quality over quantity, and would prefer to have one really engaging and meaningful progression path, with engaging and fun classes. Some want multiple progression paths, meaningful leveling, casual content like pet battles and reps to grind. Everyone is different, and i honestly think its absolutely fine for someone this early to say "this is not for me, i dont enjoy this".

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I agree - although there is obviously criticism, i think the overall reception from this little corner of the internet has been quite positive.

It's fine not to care about certain content. It's not fine to act like the content doesn't exist and use it as an excuse to throw meaningless complaints. As for your quality over quantity comment, that's entirely your opinion, and the passive aggressive way you pointed out "some people" still care about it is quite holier than thou of you. Look what the guy I quoted said "As of right now, there's nothing to do. Gating and throttling content shouldn't be a thing." That comment is neither correct nor constructive.

[NordWitcher]

We are always low powered at the beginning of each expansion, you cannot use that as a negative because it has been happening since TBC. I do agree some classes did not get enough love but that also happens every expansion lol.

Its not just under powered most classes are, it’s how unfriendly and not really fun they are.

[NordWitcher]

I believe an immediate hook is mandatory in modern gaming. The competition is just far too strong to rely on "it might improve", and this issue is compounded when you are also asking for a monthly financial commitment to the game. I realize the sub isnt a lot of money for many people, but when you can buy some amazing games on steam or console for half the price of one month sub, its clear why some give it a go for a few weeks, and if they are not enjoying it, move on to something else.

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Someone absolutely can use that as a negative - they just cant claim its something new. Again, the promise of "it might get better" just isnt enough in the modern gaming climate.

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DH lost leech in meta right? I might be wrong i dont play my DH anymore, but i have seen a few people complain about that, and tbh, i can understand that frustration - it was pretty boss being able to pop meta and become some OP mega tank for a short while. I actually agree about fury though - although not a complete dumpster fire, i definitely feel underwhelmed when i look at the meter.

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This is a discussion forum.....what you are looking for is an echo chamber. Your comparison doesnt work either, no one is picketing outside Blizzard HQ or standing outside the game store telling people not to buy or play SL - just expressing their opinion.

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Why would you feel sorry for people who enjoy different things? I dont understand that at all.

They’ve had their leech drastically nerfed from all sources and even passively. But even their damage is nerfed across the board. They’ve lost the dot on blade dance. You don’t even use certain abilities for most of the rotation cause of a certain build that you are forced into.

Fury Warriors game design has not changed much but its lost a lot of haste and the bloodthirsty dot.

[Baconeggcheese]

Only complaint I've heard in my circle is one guy who was complaining that there was nothing to do, but he is the kind of person who only cares about power related gains and pisses through or ignores everything else so for him there really isn't much to do.

Otherwise there's lots to do depending on what you care about. Not a ton of MANDATORY power related stuff to do though, which is a nice change of pace. I can put as much time into the game as I want, and if I feel like doing something else I don't have to feel guilty or like I'm falling behind. Pretty good balance imo.

[arkanon]

Look what the guy I quoted said "As of right now, there's nothing to do. Gating and throttling content shouldn't be a thing." That comment is neither correct nor constructive.

How is saying that gating and throttling content shouldn't be a thing not constructive? Saying "I dont like warriors" is not constructive. Saying "I dont like the following things about a warrior, A, B, C, D" - that is absolutely constructive. And who are you to say its not correct? The rest of your post is just childish personal attacks, so ill ignore those.

[BeepBoo]

It's easy to write off an xpac if you hated the past one and the new one doesn't look like enough of a departure. Past performance and lack of significant direction change makes it easy to predict how things will go this time around as well.

[cparle87]

How is saying that gating and throttling content shouldn't be a thing not constructive? Saying "I dont like warriors" is not constructive. Saying "I dont like the following things about a warrior, A, B, C, D" - that is absolutely constructive. And who are you to say its not correct? The rest of your post is just childish personal attacks, so ill ignore those.

Saying that there is nothing to do is not constructive because it is flat out wrong. It's like walking to your fridge, seeing it fully stocked with stuff you're not in the mood for, and complaining to your mom that it's empty and she needs to go shopping. Factually wrong. Saying "There's nothing in the game I want to do" is fine. Saying "There's nothing in the game to do" is wrong. That's not a difficult concept. Also, you just reminded me about the Calvin and Hobbes meme about denial.

[tirisfalskeleton]

We dont need yak and brontasaurus mounts everywhere. They should ban mounts from cities tbh

[Echo of Soul]

Easy, they destroyed casual gear progression. In BfA you could do the PvP zone quests to get conquest points and a weekly chest, you did "against overwhelming odds" at the same time and got a nice piece of gear.

Now they've removed all that and casual gear progression ends after a few weeks and the gear you get is really shitty

[Accendor]

They're comparing what they have to what they had. We lost a lot of stuff, a lot of systems we were used to and they were fully functional by the end of BfA. Now we have systems that are only partially functional and some people just don't want to see the bigger picture. In another thread someone asked if the 4 current worlds were all of the afterlife. Of course not. There are multiple realms and I wouldn't be surprised one bit if the next zones we get are "new" parts of the afterlife we just haven't seen yet for whatever reason. Does the fact that we only have the 4 current ones available make the entire expansion "bad"? No. Just not fully unlocked and fully functional yet.

Not judging here but that part of the story is actually weird. We are told there are basically infinity afterlives, but for some convenient reason the 4 that we visit are actually exactly the ones that (should) have the 4 Eternal Ones (or whatever they are called) in them.
Yeah, it kinda makes sense, still it gives the feeling of "this is all?"