Alleria Windrunner

[Triceron]

Alleria is not one-dimensional, if you read her backstory you'll learn that she can be very ruthless if her loved ones are hurt. Back during the Invasion of Draenor she wanted to exterminate all orcs down to the last wretched grunt because they killed her little brother Lirath. In Shadows Rising, she is willing to do anything to find Sylvanas, even if it means adopting more... unquestionable methods. Unlike the other leaders of the Alliance, she won't bend down like a worthless weakling if her loved ones are hurt.

That's sort of the problem though.

Alleria in novels, in the history, is fairly well rounded. She has motivation, she has clear goals, her character is conflicted, but it's rooted at a ground level to events in her life.

The introduction of the void here has somewhat trivialized that history. Now it's about her tackling with the void and others fearing whether she would succumb. While it's nice to see progression in her character beyond simply being a faithful servant of the light alongside Turalyon, I feel like this whole void issue was tacked on and could have been applied to practically any character to 'give them depth'. And we've had this sort of thing happen so many times now, especially in BFA, that it's just not interesting to explore any more IMO. We have plenty of curses and power-shifts that I think it actually takes away from her character more than adds to it. I think if they just kept it grounded and had her have a motivation to reject the light (like say she saw X'era's acts as going too far) it might have served her better purpose in the story. Right now she's being played out as a ticking timebomb.

Could she fall to the whispers? It's likely, she's got more grape juice in her than any other

So did Garrosh by absorbing the full powers of the heart of Y'sharjj, and they literally treated it like nothing. Willpower has a lot to do with it and Alleria is one of the most hardened characters in WoW. I could see them giving us a plotline with her that makes it seem like she's going mad but her being in actual control, just to play up the drama with Turalyon and co. I don't see them going full blown making her Sylvanas 2.0. It'd be redundant.

[Jackstraw]

I don't see them going full blown making her Sylvanas 2.0. It'd be redundant.

You mean Garrosh III or Kerrigan IV?

[Combatbutler]

So did Garrosh by absorbing the full powers of the heart of Y'sharjj, and they literally treated it like nothing. Willpower has a lot to do with it and Alleria is one of the most hardened characters in WoW. I could see them giving us a plotline with her that makes it seem like she's going mad but her being in actual control, just to play up the drama with Turalyon and co. I don't see them going full blown making her Sylvanas 2.0. It'd be redundant.

Kinda ironic, that a "mere" family tragedy drove Alleria into suicidal rage. She has a track record of handling her emotions very poorly and as such is a prime candidate to fall to the void

[gcsmith]

I mean, it's obvious that he was being genuine.

8.3 -> "I, N'Zoth, can save you from what is to come. She serves the true enemy, you are all blind. I alone can save this world."
9.0 prepatch -> "The Banished One is coming for the soul of this world."

It's clear N'Zoth was not lying. Point is, just because this creature is a shambling mass of shadow tentacles, doesn't mean he has to see himself as evil.

And before you point this out, No, that doesn't mean N'Zoth was a good guy. What I proved, however, is that the Void doesn't see itself as evil, and N'Zoth certainly didn't.

I'm still waiting to see an old god who is aligned with our goals at some point. If we can get Evil naru, then we can get good old gods.

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There's a difference between evil and being counter to mortal interests though, because I'll grant you the "Void doesn't see itself as evil" argument but the Void universally has gone out of it's way to fuck mortals over. The only reason he unveiled the future to us is LIKELY to manipulate us to his side, not to help us against Death, but to serve his ends, it's highly doubtful that it was an act of benevolence. You could argue that every cosmic force has it's own interests sure, but that's not what the discussion is about.

The discussion is about Alleria, massively souped up on Void energy, an energy that has a track record far longer than any other cosmic force of being antithetical to mortal interests.

Could she fall to the whispers? It's likely, she's got more grape juice in her than any other

You know, the void, or rather the Old Gods specifically are the only reason we've defeated the cosmic forces we have right? The curse of flesh is a tremendous source of power to all the mortals. It made us fleshy, but also gave us a lot of free will.

[Triceron]

Kinda ironic, that a "mere" family tragedy drove Alleria into suicidal rage. She has a track record of handling her emotions very poorly and as such is a prime candidate to fall to the void

Very true. Too bad she never overcame the hatred and willed herself to do the right thing in the novels.


Oh wait, she did.

[Combatbutler]

Very true. Too bad she never overcame the hatred and willed herself to do the right thing in the novels.


Oh wait, she did.

Doesn't change her personality or her problems reigning in her emotions, those who don't have a handle on their emotions simply don't have a strong will.

[Triceron]

Doesn't change her personality or her problems reigning in her emotions, those who don't have a handle on their emotions simply don't have a strong will.

You mean like how Illidan has poor control over his emotions means he was too weak-willed to resist a Naaru trying to change him?

Emotions and will are not mutually exclusive. Yes, one can affect the other, but not always in an opposing way.

Look at Garrosh. He has terrible control over his emotions, yet his will is strong enough to dominate the Heart of Y'sharjj and harness its power without becoming corrupted by it. Your statement might be a matter of common sense, but it doesn't really apply to Warcraft's characterization. We're given plenty of examples of strong-willed characters with terrible attitudes.

Alleria will be however they choose to write her. That's the only truth to this. She isn't gonna fall corrupt just because 'it makes common sense', she will be corrupt for the sake of the story, she will resist it based on the story. End of the day her entire characterization is going to be subject to the story they want to tell. I'm just putting it into context that they intentionally wrote her as our gateway into the Void magic, and I don't think the explanation that 'she's going to be corrupted because she has bad emotion control' fits the narrative they have right now.

[Combatbutler]

You mean like how Illidan has poor control over his emotions means he was too weak-willed to resist a Naaru trying to change him?

Illidan used sheer power to break free, not willpower. And yes someone like illidan would be ill equiped to deal with the void, a demon is ultimately a single voice to contend with, the void are a chorus of million of voices that never end.

Emotions and will are not mutually exclusive. Yes, one can affect the other, but not always in an opposing way.

Every emotion is kept in check through willpower, it is possible for some people to remain stoic in the most devastating of situations, we know alleria has a very great weakness, which is er family, her son in particular, he is her anchor to sanity. Kill him in front of her and she will most likely shatter like glass, proving she was too weak willed to wield such a power.

Look at Garrosh. He has terrible control over his emotions, yet his will is strong enough to dominate the Heart of Y'sharjj and harness its power without becoming corrupted by it. Your statement might be a matter of common sense, but it doesn't really apply to Warcraft's characterization. We're given plenty of examples of strong-willed characters with terrible attitudes.

And yet we hae canon statements citing that no mortal prior to alleria was able to resist the shadows, meaning everyone aside from alleria and her merry band of to be lunatics is already compromised.

Alleria will be however they choose to write her. That's the only truth to this. She isn't gonna fall corrupt just because 'it makes common sense', she will be corrupt for the sake of the story, she will resist it based on the story. End of the day her entire characterization is going to be subject to the story they want to tell. I'm just putting it into context that they intentionally wrote her as our gateway into the Void magic, and I don't think the explanation that 'she's going to be corrupted because she has bad emotion control' fits the narrative they have right now.

They can go either way of course, problem is they already set her up to fail from the very get go, the very first short story that goes in-depth with her a thousand year war, states that she will fall to the void and she accepts this as her eventual fate, but still needs the power of the void to do what she wants, Blizz has set her on the rails of a tragic heroic figure, who like so many others is willing to sacrifice her very being to achieve her goals.

And the hints that this narrative is still in play continue to be dropped.

[Triceron]

And yet we hae canon statements citing that no mortal prior to alleria was able to resist the shadows, meaning everyone aside from alleria and her merry band of to be lunatics is already compromised.

True.

I simply see it as a means of dramatic tension, much like how the Worgen curse was initially said to be immune to becoming Forsaken then later just applied as 'highly resistant' once they decided they could become Worgen. I'm not discounting the whole madness issue, but what we've seen so far is that the Void Elves and Alleria have overcome those voices and have a much more thorough understanding of it. Whether this persists or not is really up to what the writers want to do with the story. Is it clear cut that they want to corrupt her eventually? We don't know. It sure seems like it, and at the same time it doesn't seem like it.

I'd love to say it was as clear as Sylvanas going rogue since she was doing all this evil stuff to begin with, but even then all of what we know now can only be judged in retrospect, and there was always a chance (and still is) that they could end up shoving a redemption story down our throats. I'd prefer not but well that isn't ours to decide.

They can go either way of course, problem is they already set her up to fail from the very get go, the very first short story that goes in-depth with her a thousand year war, states that she will fall to the void and she accepts this as her eventual fate, but still needs the power of the void to do what she wants, Blizz has set her on the rails of a tragic heroic figure, who like so many others is willing to sacrifice her very being to achieve her goals.

And the hints that this narrative is still in play continue to be dropped.

That's how drama works. You set a character up to fail and you watch them either fall into corruption to become a villain (Arthas) or you see them overcome it and become a hero (Thrall). Is this really something new?

[united]

I’m tired of Alleria and void elves in general. I was excited when I heard she was coming back at first but then they turned her into that edgy mess.

[ravenmoon]

I’m tired of Alleria and void elves in general. I was excited when I heard she was coming back at first but then they turned her into that edgy mess.

How so? are you sure it's just not the forum clamour you're actually tired of, over enthusiastic discussions have a tendency to warp your view if you get too drawn into them.

[Combatbutler]

I’m tired of Alleria and void elves in general. I was excited when I heard she was coming back at first but then they turned her into that edgy mess.

She always was an edgy mess, heck she mellowed out quite a bit.

In fact her general outlook on humans and their kings was some of the most enjoyable thing, alas nowadays she crawls before a literal boyking.

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That's how drama works. You set a character up to fail and you watch them either fall into corruption to become a villain (Arthas) or you see them overcome it and become a hero (Thrall). Is this really something new?

If the framework is there I would agree, but setting the stakes up to such a degree, turning the hero into such a special being, becoming the very first mortal to ever wield the such power without succumbing to it, despite her very obvious flaws, that usually lead to people failing to master this power. With her ultimately prevailing and fully mastering it, thus negating possibly billions of years of prior history to set her further on a pedestal would be some of the most shittiest narratives imaginable.

[Varodoc]

How so? are you sure it's just not the forum clamour you're actually tired of, over enthusiastic discussions have a tendency to warp your view if you get too drawn into them.

Is there anything negative about enthusiastic discussions? It's good that Blizzard created a character who intrigues people and promotes speculation.

I don't know about you, but I'm having a lot of fun speculating where the story might go after Shadowlands.

One thing is for certain: with Turalyon and Alleria in charge of the Alliance, and Yrel, Xal'atath, and Azshara out there, things are about to get spicy.

[Triceron]

If the framework is there I would agree, but setting the stakes up to such a degree, turning the hero into such a special being, becoming the very first mortal to ever wield the such power without succumbing to it, despite her very obvious flaws, that usually lead to people failing to master this power. With her ultimately prevailing and fully mastering it, thus negating possibly billions of years of prior history to set her further on a pedestal would be some of the most shittiest narratives imaginable.

So Blizzard isn't prone to those obvious cliches and making terrible story decisions for the sake of drama?

I'd say a majority of Warcraft's lore has progressed based on that exact notion you're describing. Shitty narratives is how we got most of Knaak's novels and characters like Med'an. Shitty narratives is what we're still getting that now, I don't think anything changes. We're all subject to Blizzard writers' whims.

Alleria is already not the character I wish to remember. It's a whole different character from the legacy WC2 character. Same with Turalyon, same with Doomhammer, same with many characters which they decided to bring back and 'reinvent' for the sake of progressing their narratives. Their cosmic lore is just as bad, and each time they decide to explain or add to it they don't seem to ever respect any of the material they set out to establish; they just move forward and retrofit anything that doesn't fit the current narrative. We're told that Void is madness right now, but we were also told 'there always must be a Lich King' and it seems like there's more that they want to say about that. We'll have to wait till we see what is behind the madness, and whether it can be quenched/killed/understood.

The way I see it played out is Alleria either going rogue, or being used as a macguffin for us to fight the Void Lords. Whether she gets corrupted or not is simply about using her to move the story forward. Taking a page from Shadowlands, she could either be an Ursoc or a Ysera. The outcome is madlibs, it's practically interchangeable at this point.

[Combatbutler]

So Blizzard isn't prone to those obvious cliches and making terrible story decisions for the sake of drama?

I'd say a majority of Warcraft's lore has progressed based on that exact notion you're describing. Shitty narratives is how we got most of Knaak's novels and characters like Med'an. Shitty narratives is what we're still getting that now, I don't think anything changes. We're all subject to theBlizzard writers' whims.

Well there is shitty and then there is absolute hot garbage, like Alleria fully mastering the void would be the latter, it would be worse than me'dan in terms of the story. Sure blizz writers usually go for the low hanging fruit, but if they truly take this direction they wouldn't be on the level of fanfic writers anymore, but rather bad fanfic writers.

[Triceron]

Well there is shitty and then there is absolute hot garbage, like Alleria fully mastering the void would be the latter, it would be worse than me'dan in terms of the story. Sure blizz writers usually go for the low hanging fruit, but if they truly take this direction they wouldn't be on the level of fanfic writers anymore, but rather bad fanfic writers.

The entire Void Elf nonsense was hot garbage.

I mean who are we kidding here? They should all have been sucked into the void and left for dead, period. This whole allied race and ties to the Void is all a set up to build tension towards a Void expansion, simple as that. Whatever they're doing to 'explore the Void' is just hype material for Expansion 10/11.

[Combatbutler]

The entire Void Elf nonsense was hot garbage.

I mean who are we kidding here? They should all have been sucked into the void and left for dead, period. This whole allied race and ties to the Void is all a set up to build tension towards a Void expansion, simple as that.

It is very stupid, but is still somewhat salvageable, the main problem with them is they are far too sane. Are you familiar with malkavians? If so they should have taken inspiration from those. Void elves should be half mad somewhat prophetic loons.

[Triceron]

It is very stupid, but is still somewhat salvageable, the main problem with them is they are far too sane. Are you familiar with malkavians? If so they should have taken inspiration from those. Void elves should be half mad somewhat prophetic loons.

To be honest they shouldn't have been Elves at all. The only reason they are Elves is because Blizzard copped out on properly giving High Elves to the Alliance due to their adherence to visual identities, then now they pretty much just said F' it let's just make em High Elves again and now they're stuck with Void lore.

I don't even care about it being salvageable, I just see it as another casualty of the machine. Kinda like Pandaren having zero story relevance to the Alliance and Horde after Pandaria, I feel like that's all Void Elves are gonna be here for; tie in with a Void expansion then left to do their own thing.

If anything I'd probably want the Void Elf story to be attributed to a different race entirely, like playable Ethereals, but seeing as they only added Allied Races that had existing character skeletons that wasn't gonna be an option.

[Arrashi]

How so? are you sure it's just not the forum clamour you're actually tired of, over enthusiastic discussions have a tendency to warp your view if you get too drawn into them.

I mean they are basically deviantART fanfictions from 2012 - the race, so i can see where he is coming from.

[Combatbutler]

To be honest they shouldn't have been Elves at all. The only reason they are Elves is because Blizzard copped out on properly giving High Elves to the Alliance due to their adherence to visual identities, then now they pretty much just said F' it let's just make em High Elves again and now they're stuck with Void lore.

I don't even care about it being salvageable, I just see it as another casualty of the machine. Kinda like Pandaren having zero story relevance to the Alliance and Horde after Pandaria, I feel like that's all Void Elves are gonna be here for; tie in with a Void expansion then left to do their own thing.

If anything I'd probably want the Void Elf story to be attributed to a different race entirely, like playable Ethereals, but seeing as they only added Allied Races that had existing character skeletons that wasn't gonna be an option.

Well why this shit happened is obvious and it shouldn't have happened true, but it did. But there are still possibilities for improvement to salvage it to some degree, instead of leaving it as this absolutely pitiful implementation of an idea of super special mega dudes, even more screwed than demon hunters in terms of internal struggle.

The void elves as they are now are nothing but superficial hot garbage, with absolutely no identity, the least blizz could do is give them one that is appropriate for their fucked up state of mind