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  1. #181
    I love the experience so far, but if you hate the main attraction of the expansion then I would assume that's pretty good reason. I.E. artifact weapons, Heart of Azeroth, Torghast etc.

    A lot of people complaining about WoW nowadays are (imo) just veterans of the game that cannot understand that they've just grown tired of the game though. Not that there aren't legitimate complaints. Some people are not able to detach it seems and somehow believe that if blizzard would just do what they suggest it would suddenly reinvigorate the game.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanstos View Post
    I understand BC and WotLK widowers are passionate, I know, I started in BC.

    But the xpac just launched. So with that being said, how are people writing off Shadowlands?

    Like, please keep your emotions to yourself, I just need something concise and detailed.

    Its been a couple weeks, isn't it a little premature to call this a "bad" xpac?


    Thanks and please, lets keep this clean and respectful. I mean try.
    People were crybabies all the way. Even in TBC(where I started too) people would say "OMG THIS IS JUNK, CLASSIC WAS THE REAL DEAL". Then comes Wrath "OMGGG, TBC WAS THE WAY!, THIS IS JUNKKKK" and literally every expansion after it the same exact story. Hell I remember when Wrath launched people commented on sites "This game is still alive?!?!", yes you heard it, even when Wrath launched back when the game was racking up to 12 million active players you had mentally challenged people saying that garbage.

    Enjoy your game as you prefer to enjoy it and don't pay attention to flies.
    Last edited by ImpalerEU; 2020-12-04 at 12:02 AM.

  3. #183
    To be fair I remember seeing the “how you write off bfa already it just launched!” Threads too and turns out bfa was a horrible expansion from start to finish

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    What I'm on about is that "there's nothing to do" is a flat out lie. I've been playing 10+ hours a day lately running around the zones doing world quests and hunting every rare that drops something, whether it's a mog look, mount, pet, or toy. And maybe squeezing in a few dungeons when they have quests for bonus chance at leggos. And that's only one character. For anyone to say that there's nothing to do means that none of the content in the game matters to them and I wonder why they're even playing
    I get that you are interested in that, but since its not power increase, many people (those who claim "there is nothing to do") are not interested in them.
    I am part of that group myself, but I know that next week M+ opens and that will change things for a 2-3 weeks (until the raid is on farm and M+ becomes quasi obsolete again). At that point WQs (except for Renown), M+ (except 1/week) and every content that is not raiding is suddenly not relevant anymore.

    Yes, I understand that if you like Pets and Mounts and Toys its different, but thats not what the argument is for people who feel that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacewalrus2010 View Post
    A lot of people complaining about WoW nowadays are (imo) just veterans of the game that cannot understand that they've just grown tired of the game though. Not that there aren't legitimate complaints. Some people are not able to detach it seems and somehow believe that if blizzard would just do what they suggest it would suddenly reinvigorate the game.
    This is a common misconception. Those people did not grown tired of the game, the game hast just drastically changed from what it used to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CylomDashti View Post
    They did indeed, I believe there was a paradigm shift in the mentality of your average player. You can see this when it comes to pvping for gear, it used to be completely normal up until pandaria/wod, people would do their dungeons/bgs/arenas/raids whatever, it's all part of the game. Now however, don't you dare mention pvp or your average player is already triggered.

    Same with minmaxing and 'nolifing', if my memory isn't failing me, I remember the playerbase forging me as a new playing into that minmaxed guy who tries to get every possible advantage during tbc/early wrath. It was a thing to look for and hope that you'll be the person that everybody looks up to. Now players with mentalities like me are heavily frowned upon it seems, it seems like I'm more of an outcast rather that the guy that everybody wants to be.
    People were always triggered when you had to do PVP for PVE rewards. Always.

  5. #185
    I feel like Shadowlands is trying to cater to two extremes: Super-casuals and hardcore competitive players. Both of these groups have some tremendous pressure taken off their backs with how Blizzard has decided to handle player power and covenant progression. Shadowlands gives everyone a chance to achieve, keep up and enjoy most of the content that has generally been unavailable in the past due to either personal time constraints or strict competitive commitments.

    You have maybe a 4 hour 'obligation' per week depending on if you rush or take it slow and that's it. That's all you really need to do, and it's also all you really can do to obtain player power or covenant progression. Be you a world first raider or the most time constrained casual, you can probably find that time once a week. Shadowlands is absolutely great for these two extremes. But what about everyone else, the in-betweeners, who are neither super casual or serious raiders?

    If this manner of time-gating and content throttling isn't relaxed a bit in the future then this isn't necessarily going to be a great expansion for people who have a lot of time to invest everyday, who wants to invest that time in the game everyday, but don't want or have the means to tackle end-game content in a serious manner. There's very little progression path or content for this group because this group generally plays just as much as a hardcore player but unlike a hardcore player they don't necessarily raid or do high-rated PVP. So what happens is that they end up being lumped together with the super casuals. And the super casuals have 4 hours of total content per week to progress their character that they are being piece fed on a weekly basis in order to not feel like they're being left behind due to time constraints.

    I'd like to think that the vast majority of the player base aren't full-time working parents of multiple toddlers or playing in a top 100 guild, right? Most people are probably part of this 'in-betweener' group who likes to play 3-6 hours per day regularly and occasionally 14 hours straight, maybe take a two week break now and then, dabble in a bit of everything, experiment with gear and talents and just explore the game at whatever pace. The value player freedom and they value being rewarded for time investment. I suspect we will start to see a growing problem emerge from this group once 'the honeymoon' phase of the expansion has passed.

    The game in this current design doesn't seem to support that kind of play or amount of time investment or a sporadic time investment due to being time-gated. And if future patches will be similarly time-gated it won't ever support that kind of play or time investment. It supports 4 hours per week in renown progression that unlocks character power, not more and not less. There's little in-between and I think that will ultimately kill the enjoyment for the 'in-between' group because they will always be very limited in what is available to them in terms of character progression. A lot of people already see this problem coming from a mile away and they want to be vocal about it so that perhaps Blizzard can make something constructive out of it sooner rather than too-late. Unfortunately people generally aren't very well-spoken so it translates into threats of quitting or condemnation of the game with very little context as to why.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    It's already wayy less Grindy which I approve of.
    It's not really way less grindy. They just put a weekly gate on what you're allowed to grind.

  7. #187
    It’s just kids or butthurt basement dwellers that didn’t get their way that are squeaking about it..rest of us treat it as another expansion.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Borgmore View Post
    It’s just kids or butthurt basement dwellers that didn’t get their way that are squeaking about it..rest of us treat it as another expansion.
    Ah yes, the old "anyone who doesnt agree with my opinion is [Insert Insult Here]". A very strong argument to put forward.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    This is a common misconception. Those people did not grown tired of the game, the game hast just drastically changed from what it used to be.
    Oh my bad. Yes. If they didn't change the game people wouldn't have left. Of course! People never get tired of the same thing.
    Last edited by Spacewalrus2010; 2020-12-04 at 09:23 AM.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by RedditIsDown View Post
    I feel like Shadowlands is trying to cater to two extremes: Super-casuals and hardcore competitive players.
    I disagree. Whats in for the super-casuals? Gear is completely limited to dungeon grinding, something many casuals don't enjoy. You get nothing from WQ, rep, torghast or anything solo related.
    And Torghast gets quite difficult as a DD without gear fast.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    I disagree. Whats in for the super-casuals? Gear is completely limited to dungeon grinding, something many casuals don't enjoy. You get nothing from WQ, rep, torghast or anything solo related.
    And Torghast gets quite difficult as a DD without gear fast.
    A super-casual has until this week struggled or is still struggling with reaching max level. Usually that means people who barely log in double digit hours a week. And once they are done with everything on offer up to this point they have the covenant campain waiting for them, giving them upgradeable gear that scratches at the heels of entry tier raiding, without having ever seen a dungeon from the inside. In that regard he is right, the extreme end of casual play is definitely getting their stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    It's not really way less grindy. They just put a weekly gate on what you're allowed to grind.
    Too be fair, for some all that matters is power gains and for them it's true. There is barely any grind. If you want actual content though outside of competitive/challenging activities you have to grind your ass off for collecting the various transmog sets or unlocking most of your covenant feature content, as it is all hidden behind steep anima barriers and soul-timed gates.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  12. #192
    Some people just look back at BC and Wotlk and expect the same from modern WoW but the game is never going to be like BC and wotlk again. They just need to accept that the game, the community, the internet in general and their lives have changed. People need to move on.

    Shadowlands is one of the better iterations of 'Modern WoW' (At launch at least).
    Last edited by Azato; 2020-12-04 at 10:43 AM.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    A super-casual has until this week struggled or is still struggling with reaching max level. Usually that means people who barely log in double digit hours a week. And once they are done with everything on offer up to this point they have the covenant campain waiting for them, giving them upgradeable gear that scratches at the heels of entry tier raiding, without having ever seen a dungeon from the inside. In that regard he is right, the extreme end of casual play is definitely getting their stuff.
    Well i got 60 (or to be more precise, finished the zones) this tuesday, so that probaby qualifies me as super-casual in your eyes.
    I didn't get any gear from the covenant campain till now and i stuggle with Torghast layer 3 on my rogue. So gear upgrades would be welcome. I've seen a single piece of gear in the WQ. I did a few dungeon (but really didn't enjoy them because of the constant leaving tanks) but had bad luck with drops.
    So i'm not that happy with the expansion right now.

  14. #194
    Stood in the Fire Hastis's Avatar
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    Shadowlands fetaures:
    5 zones
    covenants (reputation hall insted of class)
    thorgast

    Legion:
    5 zones
    class order halls (class instead of garrison)
    mythic +
    world quests
    artifacts system
    new honor system
    new class demon hunter

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    if you go to mcdonalds 5x and recieve poor service each time, you start writing them off even when a new mcdonalds opens nearby and don't even give them a try.
    True. But do these same people then go continue to complain about the poor services or do they just move on and go to KFC instead? People have their own opinions but if they are no longer playing nor have any interest, why spend time complaining about it to others who still enjoy it?

    A different comparison would them stuck in a loveless marriage. The love is gone but do not want to divorce in the slim hope it would come back and yet constant complaining about marriage is terrible.

  16. #196
    I'm just missing the simple stories, the simple villans.. I won't lie when I say I am very much looking forward to BC-Classic.

  17. #197
    I wouldn't say there's nothing to do. I would say that what there is to do is feeling like a bad use of my time.

    A serious problem I'm finding is there doesn't appear to be anything there to motivate me to do chores. A game where chores don't lead to a desirable goal isn't going to retain me.
    Last edited by Osmeric; 2020-12-04 at 11:18 PM.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  18. #198
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I wouldn't say there's nothing to do. I would say that what there is to do is feeling like a bad use of my time.

    A serious problem I'm finding is there doesn't appear to be anything there to motivate me to do chores. A game where chores don't lead to a desirable goal isn't going to retain me.
    Isn't that an overlying problem though?

    Some people don't like a game where there's necessary chores, and the less boxes they have to check each day the better. What those chores are and what you consider a chore is entirely subjective though. I'm bewildered that there are loads of people in here who like gear progression world quests, or liked doing dailies in BC/WoTLK (back when you didn't get gear from dailies, just reputation levels), but to each their own.

    I view Shadowlands like Legion+ to be honest. The same things are in the game that were in Legion, with Torghast being basically the new feature. The difference in the two is that AP grinding was basically required, and legendary items were pure RNG, both of these systems in Shadowlands are fixed (for the better, at least in my opinion). Outside of that AP grinds and reputation grinds still exist, but you don't have to do them, all of them are basically optional and more or less lead to pets/titles/mounts/transmog.

    To each their own but in eras of the game where there are less necessary things to do, I find myself enjoying the game more but in different ways. In BFA I barely played alts, while in Shadowlands I have more alternate characters at an earlier stage. Legion I barely played alts and only got them up to a certain baseline to abuse mission board tables and do the mage tower (I used them for nothing else). That's not to say that there isn't plenty to do in Shadowlands (there is), but a lot of it's not really mandatory, and I don't think people are use to that adjustment yet.

    Realistically I don't think it's fair it until the seasonal content has come out. At the very least PvP has greatly improved as as gearing option, which hasn't really been the case since WoD.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Azato View Post
    Some people just look back at BC and Wotlk and expect the same from modern WoW but the game is never going to be like BC and wotlk again.
    For me it may be time to move on to Classic. SL is my least liked expansion. Mainly because of all the new systems and new currencies. I preferred just getting gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    It's already wayy less Grindy which I approve of.
    You have to build renoun, and rep, and gather conduits, and collect anima, and Stigia. And work on your Legendary. Seems way more grindy than before.
    Last edited by dexx; 2020-12-05 at 02:38 AM.

  20. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by vian View Post
    As of right now, there's nothing to do. Gating and throttling content shouldn't be a thing.
    When you have people who rush to max level in 2 days gating content is the only way for the developers to get any rest and put out good content.

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