absolutely worthless now

[chase_the_mofo]

At least BM. It's so weak its not fun to play and i'm therefor leaning towards unsub. I struggle doing normal WQs, I lose almost all 1v1 wpvp, in BG's im basically a critter.

This coming from someone who knows the spec inside out, and with "decent" gear (including BiS 190ilvl wep).

Those of you who switched over to MM, tell me your experience. I have a bunch of alt, but this is my main and considering the unbelivably slow grind with covenants, the maw etc, I will not play alts in this expansion.

Welcome to last 4 expansions of frost death knights

[Romanthony]

Playeed Bm since Vannlia, and well, im having no trouble with WQ or any of your problems can even solo torgast 3 given the right rng so yea

[Pakheth]

The only thing I can agree on is that pets are super squishy and I feel I spend a lot of time managing heals on my pet than ever before, which I don't mind. It keeps me busy in combat which I like. Also why I use a spirit beast with the extra handy heal. BM is not nearly as good at survival as we used to be.

[DechCJC]

As usual, wait until first baseline gears arrive before you jump into conclusions.

Yeah, that's why I said current ^^

[Incarnia]

Welcome to last 4 expansions of frost death knights

Dude doesn't know what he's talking about. Both BM and MM is super powerful atm. I literally can't understand how he is struggling so bad, I play BM myself (avg 160ilvl) and feel like I can tackle anything without having to feel concerned. Stuff melts, pet is buff as hell.

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The only thing I can agree on is that pets are super squishy and I feel I spend a lot of time managing heals on my pet than ever before, which I don't mind. It keeps me busy in combat which I like. Also why I use a spirit beast with the extra handy heal. BM is not nearly as good at survival as we used to be.

You using a tank pet? I run with a scalehide pet for hard hitting mobs. It can take more of a beating and their scale shield ability (The Scalehide hardens its skin, reducing damage taken by 50% for 12 sec.) definitely comes in handy. I do use the heal on pretty much CD, just in case, but noticed that this type of pet doesn't require as much healing as the other ones. It's a lot less squishy, and die way less frequently.

[Pakheth]

You using a tank pet? I run with a scalehide pet for hard hitting mobs. It can take more of a beating and their scale shield ability (The Scalehide hardens its skin, reducing damage taken by 50% for 12 sec.) definitely comes in handy. I do use the heal on pretty much CD, just in case, but noticed that this type of pet doesn't require as much healing as the other ones. It's a lot less squishy, and die way less frequently.

I haven't tried any pets from the Scalehide family yet, would have to take a look. I'm still biased on pets looks though and will definitely pick a good looking one over utility.

[Greyfang]

As BM ilvl 164 right now, with Night Fae covenant and Soulforged Embers legendary, I'm having no problems at all in PVE. Sometimes my pets die if I overpull, which is understandable at the end of the expansion (+ not using the tankiest pet either). Wild Spirits + Tar Trap-Flare will muder just about anything, and I find myself topping dps meters most of the time in heroics even with other higher ilvl people in the party.

That being said, as I mentioned earlier, at the beginning of an expansion it's normal for your pet to die occasionally and feel less tankier overall than later on. But i'm very happy with the spec atm. Can't speak from a PVP side though.

[Ealyssa]

MM and BM hunters are tearing shit up right now. currently the issue cant be the spec, has to be the player.

That's obvious, but OP is in heavy "aM a g0D g4MeR SiNcE Ev4" denial. It's quite hilarious actually.

[Itori]

I dont know what OP is talking about, im loving BM especially with night fae, had no problems lvling or putting out decent numbers at 60.

[Chucknourishlol]

Dude doesn't know what he's talking about. Both BM and MM is super powerful atm. I literally can't understand how he is struggling so bad, I play BM myself (avg 160ilvl) and feel like I can tackle anything without having to feel concerned. Stuff melts, pet is buff as hell.

If he cant do WQs as BM its 100% a player problem. Probably has 5 key binds max in addition to the default 1-9.

@OP Post your armory link, lets see how well you actually know your class (gearing/talent wise)

It's not, but hey this thread derailed with pointless flaming so i'll abandon it now. My ignorelist just got even bigger so there's that.

Oh lol, so hes 156 ilvl and is now scared of posting anything because he got called out for being bad. 100% he's using the worst talent in each row.

[Eapoe]

I’m kind of curious what all the BM hunters are pulling that they need to heal so much. All the posts I’m reading are people stating they have to heal their pet and make it sound like it’s always in fear of death.
The reason I bring this up is I have been playing MM (can’t do another xpac of BM. Personal taste) and I only ever really have to heal my pet or use Catlike Reflexes for the dodge if I overpull a group in Torghast or just chain pull mob after mob after mob in such quick succession it’s almost impossible to pull off. It usually heals itself just from the Leech of being Ferocity.

[unbound]

At least BM. It's so weak its not fun to play and i'm therefor leaning towards unsub. I struggle doing normal WQs, I lose almost all 1v1 wpvp, in BG's im basically a critter.

This coming from someone who knows the spec inside out, and with "decent" gear (including BiS 190ilvl wep).

Those of you who switched over to MM, tell me your experience. I have a bunch of alt, but this is my main and considering the unbelivably slow grind with covenants, the maw etc, I will not play alts in this expansion.

TBH, I find MM a boring and OP spec. If you just want one of the simplest rotations, MM may be the spec for you (if you want the absolute dirt easiest rotation, try DH which is also OP).

BM is just as powerful, but there is at least a bit of finesse to it (timing of barbed shot to maximize frenzy). I suspect if you are struggling to do well with the spec, you may want to check your assumption that you know the spec inside out.

[Pakheth]

I’m kind of curious what all the BM hunters are pulling that they need to heal so much. All the posts I’m reading are people stating they have to heal their pet and make it sound like it’s always in fear of death.
The reason I bring this up is I have been playing MM (can’t do another xpac of BM. Personal taste) and I only ever really have to heal my pet or use Catlike Reflexes for the dodge if I overpull a group in Torghast or just chain pull mob after mob after mob in such quick succession it’s almost impossible to pull off. It usually heals itself just from the Leech of being Ferocity.

I can only speak from my own experience but regular mobs in the Maw can easily kill my pets in a 1v1. I don't know if it is wonky scaling or what it is but survivability of pets have been quite low at max level. I am only ilvl 154 currently so might be why. I do find myself using Mend Pet on CD almost constantly + Spirit Heal and tenacity pet defensive CD if I pull more than one thing.

[Eapoe]

I can only speak from my own experience but regular mobs in the Maw can easily kill my pets in a 1v1. I don't know if it is wonky scaling or what it is but survivability of pets have been quite low at max level. I am only ilvl 154 currently so might be why. I do find myself using Mend Pet on CD almost constantly + Spirit Heal and tenacity pet defensive CD if I pull more than one thing.

Weird. I just wonder if there is a scaling issue or maybe some hidden mechanic to pet damage.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to convey I never use Mend Pet as MM, but I usually will prepull cast it, pull 1-2 mobs, kill them, and then move on to the next mob. During the jump to jump pulling I usually only have to use amend Pet around the 6th-7th pull, sometimes longer.
Some of the BM Hunters I read make it sound like they do it every mob.

[bloodwulf]

I love this thread. OP creates a whining thread, immediately gets refuted over 5 pages. Instead of taking any of the constructive criticism in the thread, says "NO YOU WRONG" and leaves. @ReleaseDay , i hope you don't have a guild relying on you. Hunters are not in a bad spot, you just don't understand the class as well as you think you do. No one with a pet should ever struggle with WQs, and every bg i have done minus one since Shadowlands launched has had a hunter in number 1 damage spot. My wife has exclusively played hunter since wrath, in our walkin heroics with her at 139 item level, she has easily kept up as BM to our 170 item level Lock and DK dps. She was never significantly behind and if she had another 21 item levels and a lego would of likely passed us.

Options for you:
A) Take the time to relearn the class, you obviously are mechanically missing something fundamental.
B) Reroll to whatever FOTM class you want, it likely will make zero difference.

[BicycleMafioso]

Wow, the amount of trolling going on by most people replying in this thread is insane.

The dude has problems with pet survival in the open world, and him surviving in world PvP and BGs, and you are all responding calling him bad because of sims about group-based PvE? Geeze. He has not mentioned anywhere that he does that type of content.

PvP is in a bad spot. It gets super boring when it’s a stun -> release spirit type of game. Everyone dies. It’s not just you.

[F Rm]

I can only speak from my own experience but regular mobs in the Maw can easily kill my pets in a 1v1. I don't know if it is wonky scaling or what it is but survivability of pets have been quite low at max level. I am only ilvl 154 currently so might be why. I do find myself using Mend Pet on CD almost constantly + Spirit Heal and tenacity pet defensive CD if I pull more than one thing.

I'd say that the best thing you can do here is to switch out your Spirit Beast for a ferocity pet for that leech.

Against tougher mobs you still have to use Mend Pet but otherwise the pet will keep itself up.

[Thes]

TBH, I find MM a boring and OP spec. If you just want one of the simplest rotations, MM may be the spec for you (if you want the absolute dirt easiest rotation, try DH which is also OP).

BM is just as powerful, but there is at least a bit of finesse to it (timing of barbed shot to maximize frenzy). I suspect if you are struggling to do well with the spec, you may want to check your assumption that you know the spec inside out.

Idk if I agree, both specs feel really chill compared to the madness some classes have to deal with.

[Kaver]

The only thing I can agree on is that pets are super squishy and I feel I spend a lot of time managing heals on my pet than ever before, which I don't mind. It keeps me busy in combat which I like. Also why I use a spirit beast with the extra handy heal. BM is not nearly as good at survival as we used to be.

Having to manage heals on pets is a very good thing in my opinion. It is something that the BM hunter has lacked in the last two expansion. I don’t enjoy having a pet that’s almost immortal. Sure it’s easier to play with a pet that cannot die but that doesn’t make it more fun.

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Wow, the amount of trolling going on by most people replying in this thread is insane.

The dude has problems with pet survival in the open world, and him surviving in world PvP and BGs, and you are all responding calling him bad because of sims about group-based PvE? Geeze. He has not mentioned anywhere that he does that type of content.

PvP is in a bad spot. It gets super boring when it’s a stun -> release spirit type of game. Everyone dies. It’s not just you.

I think you missed something.

The OP is complaining that he cannot do WQs as a BM hunter which is completely absurd as BM is one of the best open world specs in the game. Most of Peoples answers have nothing to do with group based content.

People are flaming/trolling him because his complaints are ridiculous and untrue. What do you expect. It’s like someone complaining that Jeff Bezos doesn’t have enough money.

[Pakheth]

I'd say that the best thing you can do here is to switch out your Spirit Beast for a ferocity pet for that leech.

Against tougher mobs you still have to use Mend Pet but otherwise the pet will keep itself up.

I actually tried that and it resulted in pets not being able to hold aggro at all even with Misdirect, especially when dealing with more than one mob. I went back to Tenacity quite fast after. But I dunno maybe I just had really bad luck.

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Having to manage heals on pets is a very good thing in my opinion. It is something that the BM hunter has lacked in the last two expansion. I don’t enjoy having a pet that’s almost immortal. Sure it’s easier to play with a pet that cannot die but that doesn’t make it more fun.

I agree. I like the extra management. Also the same reason I think it's sad shamans barely use totems anymore as I always found that extra management fun.