If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Teriz]

Still elementals that two different classes can summon. Mages have one elemental pet spec, and Shamans of all specs, can summon 1 elemental pet (2 if specced) for a short time. If these two classes can summon elementals, then two classes can summon undead minions.

Unholy DKs are the only spec within the class that heavily utilize pets. Most of the time, Frost and Blood DKs are dealing damage without pets involved. DKs are not a true pet class. They only have a pet spec.

Except summoning undead minions is a major theme of the Death Knight. In fact it's one of its defining characteristics. Summoning elementals isn't really a defining characteristic of the Shaman class, and I would argue it isn't really a defining characteristic of the Mage class either outside of Frost Mages.

Army/Apoc are not waves of exploding minions. My spell is essentially a nuke with an extended animation. At no point are the skeletons involved in this spell of mine, pets. Bonestorm isn't a projectile - it's an AoE. Soul Reaper has nothing to do with ghosts (Do DKs have any spells that deal with ghosts?), and what is Dancing Rune Blade supposed to represent?

Foul Managerie turns some of your undead minions into exploding zombies, so yes that is waves of exploding minions.
Bones swirling around the DK during Bonestorm are still projectiles.
Soul Reaper literally attacks the soul of your target and gives you a bonus if you kill them with it. Dancing Rune Weapon is a Ghost Blade. Wraithwalk turns you into a ghost and allows you to move faster.

Death and Decay, Defile, nor Abomination are diseases. Don't say diseases can do everything a poison can and then list non diseases. Busting Sores is not a spray, as in channeled function. DKs to my knowledge cannot deal damage in a channeled mechanic.

Abominations spew disease as they attack. Death and Decay can apply festering wounds. Bursting Sores infects targets around the burst. How is that not a spray?

And yet, every Necromancer NPC in WoW IS a light-armored ranged spell caster.

Then there are Death Knights, Necromancers who wear heavy armor.

No comment on the Shadowland Necromancer idea?

[Ielenia]

No, you said that clearly the DK didn't need the Necromancer class concept to raise the dead. Again, clearly Blizzard disagreed because they gave DKs the Necromancer ability among other Necromancer concepts.

You're saying that Blizzard disagrees with the idea that the original death knights from Warcraft 3 could not raise the dead... despite the unit having the ability to raise the dead. Have you given up on logic? Teriz, it's right there. You even mentioned the ability several times.

I mean, that's like saying that, in a high school test, I have to depend on a friend to solve the math questions, despite me getting straight A's on math, and my friend having at best B-. Since you say that the death knight's ability to raise the dead is "more powerful" than the necromancer's "weak" ability.

I'm not aware of a technology expansion where Gnomes and Goblins were prominently featured.

Necromancers aren't prominently featured in this expansion, either.

Semantics. This is the Tinker we're talking about;

http://classic.battle.net/war3/neutr...intinker.shtml

The Tinker as an inventing adventurer is Blizzard's invention, not mine.

That's not what semantic means. Plus I'm talking about your claim, not Blizzard's. Blizzard never made the claim that "tinkers invent, engineers sell".

See above.

No. You made the claim about the english language. I simply pointed out that, by that same english language, a tinker is inferior to the engineer. And if you want to invoke Blizzard, I will point out that what Blizzard has demonstrated about tinkers and engineers heavily indicate that they are merely synonyms of one-another.

I said it isn't as popular as some seem to believe, because there was no urgency or need to release it as a class in an expansion themed around the Necromancer's major thematic.

The argument stands. The fact we don't have a tinker class in these 15+ years of WoW is a heavy indication that the tinker is not as popular as some people seem to believe.

[sam86]

want real fact check? DH were add with 2 spec only, i don't expect blizz to add any class, even if game is starting to REALLY need ranged class

[Teriz]

Necromancers aren't prominently featured in this expansion, either.

Sylvanas was in the opening cinematic.

The argument stands. The fact we don't have a tinker class in these 15+ years of WoW is a heavy indication that the tinker is not as popular as some people seem to believe.

Again, where's the expansion prominently featuring a Tinker like this one featuring a necromancer?

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want real fact check? DH were add with 2 spec only, i don't expect blizz to add any class, even if game is starting to REALLY need ranged class

Tinker would be 3 if not 4 specs with no abilities taking from existing classes.

And yes I agree that the game needs another ranged class. I think the Tinker would be physical ranged, but use INT instead of AGI.

[Poppincaps]

A mail wearing, ranged dps. Probably hybrid, but we've never gotten a new ranged dps spec and we've had one taken away so we're due. What form that takes is up to Blizzard, but if it doesn't wear mail and doesn't have a ranged dps spec I will be upset.

[cocomen2]

I know it never gonna happen , but i would love to see some class that specializes in controlling insects and use them as weapon, like Entomomancer.
(R.I.P. Mantid allied race)

[Ielenia]

Sylvanas was in the opening cinematic.

Sylvanas is not a necromancer. You are really grasping at straws if you are now resorting to calling Sylvanas a necromancer.

Again, where's the expansion prominently featuring a Tinker like this one featuring a necromancer?

This expansion does not feature a necromancer.

[username993720]

I know it will never happen because WoW isn't really built around it but I would love an actual support class. Having played a lot of FFXIV recently I love the Bard and Dancer and how they fit into a group. While they are ranged DPS classes they bring a lot of utility to groups through various buffs instead of just being a flat out DPS class.

I don't really trust blizzard in balancing something like that though because the way WoW works they would probably end up half assed. People are focused solely on numbers when it comes to a damage class and there is no room for something like a support that isn't a healer. Unless the buff they brought were insane people would feel like they are just taking up a spot for another DPS.

Sonic Boom — Murmur releases a massive burst of sonic energy that blasts players within 0 yards with Nature damage, then inflicts additional Nature damage every 3 seconds for 9 sec. While affected by Sonic Boom, movement speed is reduced by 90%.

Magnetic Pull — Murmur pulls all players towards him.

Murmur's Touch — Murmur touches a player, causing the air around them to pulse with sonic energy for 14 sec. When Murmur's Touch fades, a shockwave of energy inflicts 3563 to 3937 Nature damage and silences all players within 0 yards of the player that was touched for 6 sec.

Murmur's Touch — Murmur touches a player, causing the air around them to pulse with sonic energy for 7 sec, pulling all other players towards them. When Murmur's Touch fades, a shockwave of energy inflicts 3563 to 3937 Nature damage and silences all players within 0 yards of the player that was touched for 6 sec.

Sonic Shock — Murmur shocks a player, inflicting 1875 to 3125 Arcane damage to his current target.

Thundering Storm — Murmur throws sonic bolts at any player further than 25 yards from him, inflicting 2125 to 2875 Nature damage.

Resonance — When there are no players within melee range of Murmur, he inflicts 2000 Nature damage to all players and increases their Nature damage taken by 2000 for 45 sec.

Shockwave Truncheon:

[ThatsOurEric]

I am 100% right cause Dragoon is not like that that. You could easily say the FF monk instead cause it does more flippy what's-its. It's just nonsense. Stop it.

I won't waste time going back and forth with the "you're wrong, no you're wrong", so I'll
just roll my eyes and go whatever you say kid.

I shoot back at you your ignorant bias as you prove time and again that you do not know anything about these classes.

No, you come across more as being kind of a dick (well not kind of, it's rather blatant) and really don't
know how to talk like an adult. Which is the act of someone who likes to act like they know what they're
talking about (psst you don't), so yeah.

Mesmers are masters of illusions, not effin shadow priests. Priests use the power of the void. Alot of purple stuff and tentacles. Mesmers use illusions. They do not go insane and hurt themselves. It is the complete opposite!

And here is pretty much where you hit the door with your face.

I said SIMILAR. That does not automatically make them "the same", otherwise I'd just say "they're the same", as I
have done with other classes.

Mesmers do have Psychic abilities on top of their Illusion skills. If you actually did know what you were talking about,
you'd already know that, and Shadow Priests have a variety of Psychic abilities as well.

Now you move goal posts unsurprisingly. Alter time and mirror image are not nearly in the same level of a mesmer. Mesmers use tricks. They use debuffs to confuse the target and mirages. This is not what a mage does.

Arcane Mages in WoW, particularly lore-based ones, have been using the arcane to use illusions in ways similar to how
it is described that Mesmers do. If you'd have actually paid attention to the game's lore, you'd know this already. Instead,
you're frantically trying to save face, like a pedantic child.

By that logic all mechagnomes are mesmers cause they can do Hyper Organic Light Originator.

If you can't tell the difference between a spell like Mirror Image, which uses magic, and Hyper Organic Light Originator,
which can clearly only be used by Mecha Gnomes because of their mechanical origins, I gotta tell ya, you look even
more ignorant than you already do.

Can you truly not see how ridiculous your simplifications are?

No, because they're meant to be extremely brief. Apparently, you're the only person to take umbrage with this, and
the fact that you're taking it way past normal levels of serious is really really pathetic.

Mages are fire/mage/arcane casters. Illusions are just a side gig and a very tiny one. They are not a class based on them.

That is incorrect. All mages in WoW have the ability to use illusions. Some, like Arcane Mages, specialize in it more than the
others, but the potential is still there.

They have one spell mirror image. Dude, one spell DOES NOT make a whole class. You are being completely ridiculous!

As are you, for failing to know the various other times Mages in WoW have used illusionary magic as a whole. Every single important
character has used Illusionary magic, from Khargar, to Jaina, to some forgettable NPC during the various quests throught the game.
From turning the player into other characters, to creating fake obstacles, mirror images, etc. This has all been done throught WoW's
history. But you knew all that already.

Right?

Yes, truly, completely, ridiculous.

WAH

Yes boy howdy you've sure shown me. How could I possibly retort your "NUH UH" counter points. I am so soundly defeated.

WAH

And as opposed to actually providing clear evidence to support your nonsense, maybe even coming up with lore facts to contradict
me, you just take your ball and go home, starting out as a failure and leaving as one.

Bravo.

[Amunrasonther]

Except summoning undead minions is a major theme of the Death Knight.

Only 1 DK spec has actual pets. So much for a major theme...

In fact it's one of its defining characteristics.

You’ve said the same about diseases and plagues.

Summoning elementals isn't really a defining characteristic of the Shaman class

Summoning elementals for the main Elemental class isn’t a defining characteristic?!

I would argue it isn't really a defining characteristic of the Mage class either outside of Frost Mages.

Agreed. For frost mages, the water elemental is an iconic symbol within the spec.

Foul Managerie turns some of your undead minions into exploding zombies, so yes that is waves of exploding minions.

Nothing explodes. There is no AOE damage. There certainly is no wave of exploding undead minions.

Bones swirling around the DK during Bonestorm are still projectiles.

Projectile refers to a missile. Fireball is a projectile. Remorseless winter like Bonestorm is an AOE spell. They’re not missiles.

Soul Reaper literally attacks the soul of your target and gives you a bonus if you kill them with it.

Spectral magic involves something ghostly. Soul Reaper is not that.

Dancing Rune Weapon is a Ghost Blade.

Nothing implies ghosts here. It’s an enchanted sword inspired by the magical swords in Naxxramas.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Unholy_Swords

Wraithwalk turns you into a ghost and allows you to move faster.

Ah ok. So one utility ghost spell but no way to heal or deal damage through spectral spells.

Abominations spew disease as they attack. Death and Decay can apply festering wounds. Bursting Sores infects targets around the burst. How is that not a spray?

Abomination spreads disease from contact. Festering Wound isn’t a disease, nor are Bursting sores.

Then there are Death Knights, Necromancers who wear heavy armor.

Then they’re not Necromancers according to WoW standards. They might practice necromancy, but there’s a special criteria for being the Necromancer class. A Paladin wearing a robe isn’t suddenly a priest, and just because they use the Light, doesn’t make them a Holy Priest.

No comment on the Shadowland Necromancer idea?

Which idea?

[Teriz]

Sylvanas is not a necromancer. You are really grasping at straws if you are now resorting to calling Sylvanas a necromancer.

Her ability Black Arrow is a necromantic ability that allows her to raise undead minions. She's also raised several dark rangers from the dead.

This expansion does not feature a necromancer.

Sylvanas, Kel'thuzad (supposedly) and the entirety of Maldraxxus says otherwise.

However, it should be noted that the lack of a Necromancer lore hero is another knock against Necromancers becoming a class.

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Only 1 DK spec has actual pets. So much for a major theme...

We were talking about summons, not pets. That's a bait and switch.

You’ve said the same about diseases and plagues.

Diseases and plagues are not a defining characteristic of Shadow Priests.

Summoning elementals for the main Elemental class isn’t a defining characteristic?!

No, it's a cooldown.

Nothing explodes. There is no AOE damage. There certainly is no wave of exploding undead minions.
Projectile refers to a missile. Fireball is a projectile. Remorseless winter like Bonestorm is an AOE spell. They’re not missiles.
Spectral magic involves something ghostly. Soul Reaper is not that.
Nothing implies ghosts here. It’s an enchanted sword inspired by the magical swords in Naxxramas.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Unholy_Swords
Ah ok. So one utility ghost spell but no way to heal or deal damage through spectral spells.
Abomination spreads disease from contact. Festering Wound isn’t a disease, nor are Bursting sores.

Ah I see what you're doing. Never mind then.

Then they’re not Necromancers according to WoW standards. They might practice necromancy, but there’s a special criteria for being the Necromancer class. A Paladin wearing a robe isn’t suddenly a priest, and just because they use the Light, doesn’t make them a Holy Priest.

Given your response above, I can see why you feel that way.

Which idea?

Eh, don't worry about it. I don't think it would measure up to your view of what a necromancer is.

[Ielenia]

Her ability Black Arrow is a necromantic ability that allows her to raise undead minions. She's also raised several dark rangers from the dead.

She's not a necromancer. That's like saying Tirion is a priest, or that Illidan is a warlock.

I repeat: Sylvanas is not a necromancer.

Sylvanas, Kel'thuzad (supposedly) and the entirety of Maldraxxus says otherwise.

Sylvanas is not a necromancer.

However, it should be noted that the lack of a Necromancer lore hero is another knock against Necromancers becoming a class.

Which would be relevant if you proved for it to be relevant. But it's not relevant, and that's a fact. And you know why? Because there was no monk lore hero in Warcraft before the Mists of Pandaria expansion.

And no. Chen Stormstout was not a monk before MoP.

[Teriz]

She's not a necromancer. That's like saying Tirion is a priest, or that Illidan is a warlock.

I repeat: Sylvanas is not a necromancer.


Sylvanas is not a necromancer.

She raised the dead. She has necromantic powers, thus she is a Necromancer.

Which would be relevant if you proved for it to be relevant. But it's not relevant, and that's a fact. And you know why? Because there was no monk lore hero in Warcraft before the Mists of Pandaria expansion.

And no. Chen Stormstout was not a monk before MoP.

This has already been discussed and thoroughly proven. There is no need to go over this argument again.

[Traveler Voltin]

Did Ielenia miss all those skeletons Sylvanas raised in the battle for undercity?

[Amunrasonther]

She's also raised several dark rangers from the dead.

I thought a Valkyr did that?

And also this:

“The Dark Lady, Sylvanas Windrunner, realized how valuable necromancy was to their cause. Though Forsaken heal naturally, many go to the priests of the Forgotten Shadow for "repairs". Necromancers can also free enslaved, mindless undead and research powerful spells that might one day return the Forsaken to life. Sylvanas knew she needed necromancers to heal, strengthen and replace her people, and she set about wooing necromancers away from the Scourge, mainly by force.”

Black Arrow my have necromantic magic, but it doesn’t seem she can really raise the dead. And even if she could, she’s still a Dark Ranger and not a Necromancer.

Diseases and plagues are not a defining characteristic of Shadow Priests.

It was for DKs, but blizzard apparently thought it was fine if two classes could use them. And Devouring Plague is now a super important spell for Spriests.

No, it's a cooldown.

It’s also then just a cooldown for 2/3 of DK specs, because again, undead minions are only the main theme for 1 DK spec.

For Elementals, it’s a cooldown for all 3 Shaman specs, and a permanent pet (unless talented) for a Mage spec.

Bottom line is, if plagues and diseases can be shared, and elemental pets can be shared, undead minions can be shared.

Ah I see what you're doing. Never mind then.

What am I doing other than showing you that you were wrong to compare my concept specs to existing DK specs and that there are obvious differences between poison and disease?

[Ielenia]

She raised the dead. She has necromantic powers, thus she is a Necromancer.

Tirion can resurrect the dead. He has holy powers, thus he is a priest.
Illidan can summon demons. He has fel powers, thus he is a warlock.

This has already been discussed and thoroughly proven. There is no need to go over this argument again.

Oh, it definitely merits discussion because it has not been proven. You asserting it was proven does not make it so. And you were the one who brought it up, so you don't get to be the one to say "we don't need to go over this".

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Did Ielenia miss all those skeletons Sylvanas raised in the battle for undercity?

Raising undead does not make one a necromancer, just like having fel magic does not make you into a warlock, or having holy magic does not make you a priest.

Besides, she only started doing that after she got god knows how many deals behind the scenes with the Jailor and whatever. She definitely couldn't raise the dead on her own back in Cataclysm.

[Teriz]

Did Ielenia miss all those skeletons Sylvanas raised in the battle for undercity?

I guess so, and it appears he wasn’t the only one.

[Traveler Voltin]

Tirion can resurrect the dead. He has holy powers, thus he is a priest.
Illidan can summon demons. He has fel powers, thus he is a warlock.


Oh, it definitely merits discussion because it has not been proven. You asserting it was proven does not make it so. And you were the one who brought it up, so you don't get to be the one to say "we don't need to go over this".

- - - Updated - - -


Raising undead does not make one a necromancer, just like having fel magic does not make you into a warlock, or having holy magic does not make you a priest.

Besides, she only started doing that after she got god knows how many deals behind the scenes with the Jailor and whatever. She definitely couldn't raise the dead on her own back in Cataclysm.

moving the goalpost i see.

[Ielenia]

moving the goalpost i see.

What? I'm not moving the goalposts. I never said that "raising undead" makes you a necromancer. Especially since if that was my definition of necromancer, I would have accepted the death knight as the necromancer class a long time ago.

[Teriz]

Tirion can resurrect the dead. He has holy powers, thus he is a priest.
Illidan can summon demons. He has fel powers, thus he is a warlock.

Paladins and Priests are both “holymancers” basically users of holy magic.

Necromancers are simply users of necromancy.