Sargeras vs Jailer power level

[cocomen2]

Sorry , trolling , but what if Jailer is father of Sargeras or Argus.
"Hell , Silvy , i gonna give you everything , just help me with my revenge"

[TheFirstOnes]

Sargeras cuts Torghast in half and wins.

That's...not how it works. His size doesn't mean shit.

[Utrrabbit]

The jailer will win. Size doesnt matter. Also the first ones are supposed to be stronger than the titans.

[Magical Mudcrab]

The jailer will win. Size doesnt matter. Also the first ones are supposed to be stronger than the titans.

This is not the case. The only articles which call the Jailer a "Titan plus plus" antagonist are WoWhead articles from a group interview, done earlier this year. People should note that the WoWhead authors who wrote the article detailing this claim also stated that Gul'dan was the last boss of Warlords of Draenor, so their ability to accurately portray events is not stellar. More accurately, the Jailer is described in articled about the same interview as being a "Titan level" antagonist, though the more comprehensive articles that detail all the questions and answers, in full, show Ion using Argus, who we only faced as an avatar, as "Titan level". It's likely the Jailer, individually, is about as powerful as a Titan avatar, like Aggrammar or Argus in Antorus.

[Utrrabbit]

This is not the case. The only articles which call the Jailer a "Titan plus plus" antagonist are WoWhead articles from a group interview, done earlier this year. People should note that the WoWhead authors who wrote the article detailing this claim also stated that Gul'dan was the last boss of Warlords of Draenor, so their ability to accurately portray events is not stellar. More accurately, the Jailer is described in articled about the same interview as being a "Titan level" antagonist, though the more comprehensive articles that detail all the questions and answers, in full, show Ion using Argus, who we only faced as an avatar, as "Titan level". It's likely the Jailer, individually, is about as powerful as a Titan avatar, like Aggrammar or Argus in Antorus.

That isnt even remotely true. If you actuly pay attention to the lore in the game. Each first one is described as more powerful than a titan. Also the zones arent just islands in space. They are different dimensions within the shadowland. What we see is small as each dimension goes on much longer. Each first one created these dimensions out of nothing aswell as most likely many more. While titans are strong they cant literally create an entire dimension alone.

[Varodoc]

That isnt even remotely true. If you actuly pay attention to the lore in the game. Each first one is described as more powerful than a titan. Also the zones arent just islands in space. They are different dimensions within the shadowland. What we see is small as each dimension goes on much longer. Each first one created these dimensions out of nothing aswell as most likely many more. While titans are strong they cant literally create an entire dimension alone.

The First Ones are not the Eternal Ones...

[Magical Mudcrab]

That isnt even remotely true. If you actuly pay attention to the lore in the game. Each first one is described as more powerful than a titan. Also the zones arent just islands in space. They are different dimensions within the shadowland. What we see is small as each dimension goes on much longer. Each first one created these dimensions out of nothing aswell as most likely many more. While titans are strong they cant literally create an entire dimension alone.

What you're saying is a mixture of wild, unfounded speculation as well as a misunderstanding of the lore.
This is the article which the "Titan plus plus" quote comes from.
This is a report of the full interview.

The Jailer, and the Pantheon of Death (i.e.: the Eternal Ones), are not First Ones. The First Ones came before them and created the Shadowlands and are, in fact, said to have shaped the cosmos.
The Eternal Ones are described as Titan-like, though this is to be expected as Zovaal is, from what we know, an Eternal One and is said to be a "Titan level antagonist"; however, the example Ion uses is Argus, who we faced in Antorus through his avatar. This implies that Eternal Ones are likely as "powerful" as Argus was when we fought him, which, again, was just his avatar.

Even if I were to give the most generous interpretation possible, that Zovaal is actually as powerful as a living Titan in its original form/body, it wouldn't matter within the context of this discussion. Sargeras was fully capable of defeating the Pantheon alone during their original encounter, and would have killed them all had Norgannon not saved their souls. We would still be comparing a character who has demonstrated power far beyond the scope of the Pantheon in aggregate with a character who about as strong as a Titan.

[Varodoc]

What you're saying is a mixture of wild, unfounded speculation as well as a misunderstanding of the lore.
This is the article which the "Titan plus plus" quote comes from.
This is a report of the full interview.

The Jailer, and the Pantheon of Death (i.e.: the Eternal Ones), are not First Ones. The First Ones came before them and created the Shadowlands and are, in fact, said to have shaped the cosmos.
The Eternal Ones are described as Titan-like, though this is to be expected as Zovaal is, from what we know, an Eternal One and is said to be a "Titan level antagonist"; however, the example Ion uses is Argus, who we faced in Antorus through his avatar. This implies that Eternal Ones are likely as "powerful" as Argus was when we fought him, which, again, was just his avatar.

Even if I were to give the most generous interpretation possible, that Zovaal is actually as powerful as a living Titan in its original form/body, it wouldn't matter within the context of this discussion. Sargeras was fully capable of defeating the Pantheon alone during their original encounter, and would have killed them all had Norgannon not saved their souls. We would still be comparing a character who has demonstrated power far beyond the scope of the Pantheon in aggregate with a character who about as strong as a Titan.

One thing that is ambiguous to me is this: when Ion says that the Jailer is Titan-level, does he mean pre or post-Arbiter's demise? Is the Jailer Titan-level only thanks to the massive boost in power he got from all the souls flowing into the Maw? Because he grew a lot more powerful now that the machine is broken and all anima flows directly to him.

Consequently, are the normal Eternal Ones much weaker than the Titans individually, but together they could overcome a Titan? If I recall correctly, Blizzard only said that the Pantheon of Death has "Titan-like powers". Key words: "Pantheon of Death". They are talking about the entire group.

Each individual Eternal One doesn't seem that powerful really. Isn't the Archon almost killed by Devos or something?

[LoLcano]

I dunno Sargeras been going through space cutting planet in half and this jailer guy been siting there unable to even leave 1 zone (maw).

[KainneAbsolute]

Sargeras is in jail.

vs. the Jailer, yeah, he lost all advantage.

[Xilurm]

That makes no sense, they're ruining their own lore. You're saying a titan who is literally a world soul, who was so powerful he was champion of the Pantheon, who defeated the other pantheon in battle and could literally cut worlds in half. Is either weaker or on par with some dude the size of his ankle?

The lich king could be the strongest being in the universe and he would still be defeated by a dude who can just cut his planet in half with him on it

Try the size of a speck of dust on this toenail. The Jailer looks like 5 humans one on top of another. Sargeras's foot is bigger than Ashenvale.

What does Titan++ mean? Because if it means what I think it means then it makes zero sense.

[kranur]

We don't have any evidence of the Jailer's feats, other than he was a bad guy and presumably powerful and imprisoned. Meanwhile Sargeras destroyed worlds.

[Houle]

That isnt even remotely true. If you actuly pay attention to the lore in the game. Each first one is described as more powerful than a titan. Also the zones arent just islands in space. They are different dimensions within the shadowland. What we see is small as each dimension goes on much longer. Each first one created these dimensions out of nothing aswell as most likely many more. While titans are strong they cant literally create an entire dimension alone.

well, someone has no idea what hes talking about
go look up the difference between eternal ones and first ones

[Wewlad]

Hm, the OG Big Bad of Warcraft or a character so fucking bland it hurts yet forced down everyone's throats as some Bigggerer Bad?

Probably the latter because Blizzard has no sense of scale and their obsession with upping the ante in an artificial manner prevails over anything else.

[Radaney]

We're fighting the Jailer before Sargeras so I think Sargeras is stronger. Even fighting him without artifact weapons.

[TheFirstOnes]

Hm, the OG Big Bad of Warcraft or a character so fucking bland it hurts yet forced down everyone's throats as some Bigggerer Bad?

Probably the latter because Blizzard has no sense of scale and their obsession with upping the ante in an artificial manner prevails over anything else.

While Sargeras was the OG big bad, that ain't the case anymore. The Jailer and the Void Lords are the bigger bads now, and neither of them are probably the big bads, as the First Ones are now a thing.

- - - Updated - - -

We're fighting the Jailer before Sargeras so I think Sargeras is stronger.

I definitely think we'll fight Sargeras in a Light/Shadow expansion, most likely in a mini raid at the Seat of the Pantheon. Would love to see the fight transition to the Realm of Order as well, for a little bonus. But instead of killing him, we merely subdue him, and before we fight Sargeras, he's weakened by his imprisonment/torment from Illidan.

- - - Updated - - -

That's what I would like to see though. I do hope we fight Sargeras sometime soon, and I do think it may happen. Time may tell though. But the Jailer's also going to be a special case to take down.

[TheFirstOnes]

Zzzzzzzzz another discussion about how the new big bad villain is a titan ++

Next big bad villain will be titan +++ / jailer +

Repeat process of adding + each expansion. So fucking boring.

I hope sargeras is WAY more powerful than him or else it just continues the fuckery of lore.

The next big bads are probably going to be the Void Lords, which are WoW's Outer Gods. The Outer Gods are like...some of the most powerful things in Fiction. So...

In a way...

[Magical Mudcrab]

While Sargeras was the OG big bad, that ain't the case anymore. The Jailer and the Void Lords are the bigger bads now, and neither of them are probably the big bads, as the First Ones are now a thing.

Current context seems to imply that the Jailor, and the other eternal ones, are comparable to Old Gods or the Titan avatar Argus in terms of their "level" of "antagonist".

However, on the Void Lords, specifically, they aren't bigger bads in any sense when it comes to "power". They were envious of the Titan's power, which is why they pooled their power together and created the parasitic Old Gods. Unless Blizzard begins retconning more of Chronicle, which is likely, the Void Lords are likely significantly weaker than the Titans.

[TheFirstOnes]

Current context seems to imply that the Jailor, and the other eternal ones, are comparable to Old Gods or the Titan avatar Argus in terms of their "level" of "antagonist".

However, on the Void Lords, specifically, they aren't bigger bads in any sense when it comes to "power". They were envious of the Titan's power, which is why they pooled their power together and created the parasitic Old Gods. Unless Blizzard begins retconning more of Chronicle, which is likely, the Void Lords are likely significantly weaker than the Titans.

They were only envious because the Titan's could control reality in a way they never could.

Blizzard is probably going to retcon their power.

[Houle]

While Sargeras was the OG big bad, that ain't the case anymore. The Jailer and the Void Lords are the bigger bads now, and neither of them are probably the big bads, as the First Ones are now a thing.

exactly what he said tho. nobody gives a shit about the jailer, the void lords or the first ones, bc all of them are bland, uninteresting power-creepers, who only exist bc blizz decided they needed even more powerful enemies after weve dealt with sargeras