Sargeras vs Jailer power level

[kaelix1]

Till i actually see proper feats from Jailer and more lore i go with Sargeras without a doubt, he has the feats and the lore to back his win without a problem, for me Sargeras easy

[JacobusRex]

In the end, who cares? After this expansion, no one will give two shits about the Shadowlands. :P

[cocomen2]

If they were "Probably about even" than no point in making whole "TITAN ++" thing, they would say just :
"Jailer as powerful like guy that you maybe remember , a Sargeras".

[TheFirstOnes]

exactly what he said tho. nobody gives a shit about the jailer, the void lords or the first ones, bc all of them are bland, uninteresting power-creepers, who only exist bc blizz decided they needed even more powerful enemies after weve dealt with sargeras

Tbf here, we never really "dealt" with Sargeras. We just imprisoned him. The Jailer is, imo, just an enemy who's on the level of Sargeras, potentially higher, and is our gateway enemy toward facing beings such as the Void Lords, or the First Ones.

I love the idea of the Void Lords, as well as the First Ones. Outer Gods in WoW, and there being ultimate Gods of potentially pure omnipotence and platonic existence? Hell yeah. The Jailer is a bit of an asspull, but we never really explored the cosmologies of Life or Death all that much tbh. And while the First Ones do undermine the Titan Pantheon's existence prior, it's still interesting to see that there are forces out there that have yet to be seen in WoW, even if Blizzard just added them in for the power creeper factor.

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The biggest single mistake in WoW lore was making Sargeras planet sized. From that point on all power comparisons are stupid as hell.

Not really. Play Asura's Wrath, or look at Transformers. Being planet sized doesn't automatically make you unbeatable.

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If they were "Probably about even" than no point in making whole "TITAN ++" thing, they would say just :
"Jailer as powerful like guy that you maybe remember , a Sargeras".

Other interviews said he was merely Titan Level, but I think the point still stands that he's a massive threat. His POTENTIAL power basically rivals that of Sargeras + his hypothetical Dark Pantheon that he was crafting (which included Argus and Azeroth, btw).

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Till i actually see proper feats from Jailer and more lore i go with Sargeras without a doubt, he has the feats and the lore to back his win without a problem, for me Sargeras easy

Same tbh. Sargeras has just shown so much more right now. All the Jailer is atm is POTENTIAL. That's it.

[deenman]

That makes no sense, they're ruining their own lore. You're saying a titan who is literally a world soul, who was so powerful he was champion of the Pantheon, who defeated the other pantheon in battle and could literally cut worlds in half. Is either weaker or on par with some dude the size of his ankle?

The lich king could be the strongest being in the universe and he would still be defeated by a dude who can just cut his planet in half with him on it

its posible that they mean the jailer is powerful in different ways,sargeras is a warrior pure and simple,he can cut planets and stuff,but he himself from what we have seen cant do much else

the jailer seems to have special magical powers to create a legion of soldiers himself and control things in way sargeras couldnt by himself,think of lich king vs deathwing kind of comparison

also its very likely the jailer we see ingame now is a very weakened form of his past self,the original pictures at blizzcon showd him much closely to a titan like being

[ohwell]

Sargeras beat the entire Pantheon solo. Safe to say he is close to the Jailer in power. Also it should be noted the Jailer's power has been inflated by all the souls going to the Maw.

That's like saying Dorothy was stronger than the Wicked Witch. It had nothing to do with raw power, but weakness.

[javierdsv]

Before all the anima was funnelled to the maw: Sargeras.
Now: Sargeras.

The Jailer is just a clown for the current expansion because the game wouldn't be good without a villain. He is not even alive. No one in the Shadowlands is. (except for the Azerothians invading now ofc)

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

The Jailer doesn't seem that powerful. I doubt he will even be the last boss of the expansion. I bet Sylvanas will somehow drain his power or something and she will be the big bad in the end. Or who knows, maybe Anduin.

[Sorshen]

The Jailer has no feats, and he follows a typical asspull/power creep formula that's all too prevalent these days. If anything, he's exceptionally good at making others do his bidding while he drinks all the soul juice to increase his own power level. Blizzard has failed to make him imposing imo.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Other interviews said he was merely Titan Level, but I think the point still stands that he's a massive threat. His POTENTIAL power basically rivals that of Sargeras + his hypothetical Dark Pantheon that he was crafting (which included Argus and Azeroth, btw).

The discussions of the Jailer being a "Titan level antagonist" typically come from the same interview. The "Titan plus plus" line came from a WoWhead article (whose editor thought that Gul'dan was the last boss of Warlords of Draenor). In the full transcripts of the media interviews, Ion compares Zovaal to Argus and N'zoth when he is comparing the level of antagonist, with Argus only being an avatar when we deal with him. There's nothing to support that Zovaal is somehow as dangerous as or more dangerous than Sargeras and his Pantheon-powered Legion; however, even if Zovaal is only as "powerful" as something like an Old God or the manifestation of Argus that we faced (which technically defeated us, even with our Artifact weapons), that's by no means trivial and still makes him an existential threat to Azeroth and likely the rest of creation.

That said, it's entirely possible that by 9.3 we find that Zovaal has been juicing on those soul steroids and has become infinitely more powerful, infused with the countless souls that have come to the Maw throughout the Shadowlands expansion.

[tikcol]

Try the size of a speck of dust on this toenail. The Jailer looks like 5 humans one on top of another. Sargeras's foot is bigger than Ashenvale.

What does Titan++ mean? Because if it means what I think it means then it makes zero sense.

I wonder if he's in the cosmic football club

[TheFirstOnes]

The discussions of the Jailer being a "Titan level antagonist" typically come from the same interview. The "Titan plus plus" line came from a WoWhead article (whose editor thought that Gul'dan was the last boss of Warlords of Draenor). In the full transcripts of the media interviews, Ion compares Zovaal to Argus and N'zoth when he is comparing the level of antagonist, with Argus only being an avatar when we deal with him. There's nothing to support that Zovaal is somehow as dangerous as or more dangerous than Sargeras and his Pantheon-powered Legion; however, even if Zovaal is only as "powerful" as something like an Old God or the manifestation of Argus that we faced (which technically defeated us, even with our Artifact weapons), that's by no means trivial and still makes him an existential threat to Azeroth and likely the rest of creation.

That said, it's entirely possible that by 9.3 we find that Zovaal has been juicing on those soul steroids and has become infinitely more powerful, infused with the countless souls that have come to the Maw throughout the Shadowlands expansion.

The only comparison Ion made regarding Argus and N'Zoth was him saying "We need to make these threats at the very least Titan level to feel threatening, which is why we pinned the Jailer to Titan level aswell".

Yeah, no shit Zovaal is not as powerful as Sargeras atm. We don't know shit about his feats outside of pure "potential" statements.

"Gul'dan was the last boss of Warlords of Draenor" Technically, the editor wasn't wrong. Archimonde and Gul'dan were the final bosses, with Gul'dan being practically the main antagonist throughout the expansion. Sargeras was also the last boss and main antagonist of Legion, despite us not fighting him at all, whatsoever.

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Before all the anima was funnelled to the maw: Sargeras.
Now: Sargeras.

The Jailer is just a clown for the current expansion because the game wouldn't be good without a villain. He is not even alive. No one in the Shadowlands is. (except for the Azerothians invading now ofc)

What do you mean? Only Mortal souls are really "dead" in the Shadowlands. The Jailer is alive in the Shadowlands, the same way everyone else native to the Shadowlands is "alive".

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its posible that they mean the jailer is powerful in different ways,sargeras is a warrior pure and simple,he can cut planets and stuff,but he himself from what we have seen cant do much else

the jailer seems to have special magical powers to create a legion of soldiers himself and control things in way sargeras couldnt by himself,think of lich king vs deathwing kind of comparison

also its very likely the jailer we see ingame now is a very weakened form of his past self,the original pictures at blizzcon showd him much closely to a titan like being

Sargeras can do a lot? The fuck? He wields tons of magics, can manipulate alien races using the Light, and he possesses knowledge of countless foes, which includes their weaknesses.

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When you’re large enough to hump and stab an entire planet, that’s probably king of the baddies. However, there’s still not enough lore to determine just how powerful the jailer is. So at this point, I’ll say Sargeras is still #1.

Lots of people talk highly about this Planet destroying stuff, when that's a massive downplay to Sargeras' power...

Like, saying Sargeras is beyond planetary is a bigger downplay to him than say "Goku being bullet level". That's how much you're downplaying him. Cause LOTS of guys could destroy the planet. And while this fandom can deny it all they fucking want, it's true...

DEATHWING POSSESSED FEATS BEYOND PLANETARY! And some of you weirdos only put him to MOUNTAIN LEVEL! LIKE, WHAT?!

[Kallor]

I just like the idea of Sargeras being the ultimate bad guy in the Warcraft universe, and the most powerful one. They should never retcon that.

[TheFirstOnes]

I just like the idea of Sargeras being the ultimate bad guy in the Warcraft universe, and the most powerful one. They should never retcon that.

Even if you wanted to think that the Void Lords are somehow weaker than Sargeras...

The First Ones exist.

[Magical Mudcrab]

The only comparison Ion made regarding Argus and N'Zoth was him saying "We need to make these threats at the very least Titan level to feel threatening, which is why we pinned the Jailer to Titan level aswell".

Yes and Argus, when we faced him, was just a manifestation of the real Argus. The comparison of "Titan level antagonist", and then using an avatar of a Titan as the analog, rather than Sargeras, implies that "Titan level antagonist" seems to mean a similar level of power to Argus (or Aggrammar, as they're both avatars) as we fought them in Antorus.

Yeah, no shit Zovaal is not as powerful as Sargeras atm. We don't know shit about his feats outside of pure "potential" statements.

The problem is we don't even know if that is potentially the case, especially when within the context you're asserting, which is that Zovaal may become a bigger threat than Sargeras and his Dark Pantheon, combined. This goes beyond discussion potential and into the area of wild speculation, that leaves the door open for anyone to make speculations like "Sargeras is the strongest, because once he gets free he's going to go to the void and bop the Void Lords on the snoot and make them stop being mean." There's about as much evidence for that as anything for Zovaal. Zovaal's potential is simply that he might possibly be about as strong as someone like Argus, but this may be referring to the avatar unless it's not and Ion was just being vague.

"Gul'dan was the last boss of Warlords of Draenor" Technically, the editor wasn't wrong. Archimonde and Gul'dan were the final bosses, with Gul'dan being practically the main antagonist throughout the expansion. Sargeras was also the last boss and main antagonist of Legion, despite us not fighting him at all, whatsoever.

This is just wrong. The last boss has always, invariably referred to the last encounter of a given context (i.e.: expansion, raid, dungeon, etc.). The editor is just wrong, Gul'dan was not the last boss. Even by the metric of being the "main antagonist", Gul'dan was literally just a means to an end for the Legion; he's not some great mastermind, he was a pawn. Additionally, this logic doesn't even follow what was noted in the article, as the author was referring to last boss in the context of what I noted: the last encounter of a given context (i.e.: they note Argus as the last boss of Legion, Garrosh of Mists of Pandaria, etc.). They just didn't know who the last boss of Warlords of Draenor was.

Sargeras was also not the last boss of Legion. Whether he is the leader of the Legion is irrelevant, the final hurdle we faced was Argus' manifestation. He might be the main antagonist, but he was not the last boss, as the Pantheon were the ones who dealt with Sargeras, not us.

[Kallor]

Even if you wanted to think that the Void Lords are somehow weaker than Sargeras...

The First Ones exist.

Yeah, I know that my wish isn't reality. I just think it's lame adding new orders/being that are stronger than him.

[Souflikar]

Isn’t it true that so far, the most powerful weapons the jailer had forged was the helm of domination and frostmourne? Wasn’t the forging of these items his greatest achievement via the runecarver? If true, then we’ve already defeated his known greatest accomplishment or the “Light” did by shattering frostmourne. I actually think the jailer is more cunning than powerful which could be just as threatening.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Isn’t it true that so far, the most powerful weapons the jailer had forged was the helm of domination and frostmourne? Wasn’t the forging of these items his greatest achievement via the runecarver? If true, then we’ve already defeated his known greatest accomplishment or the “Light” did by shattering frostmourne. I actually think the jailer is more cunning than powerful which could be just as threatening.

As funny as it would be for Tirion to actually be some god tier champion of Azeroth who destroyed Zovaal's mightiest weapons, only for one angry red boi to come up and blast him into oblivion and show how fragile the Jailer really is, there's probably (hopefully) going to be some explanation as to how Frostmourne was shattered and what Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination really are.

p.s.: I know he was really tortured to the point of death by Zerus, but they're both angry red bois, so it's all OK.

[Houle]

Even if you wanted to think that the Void Lords are somehow weaker than Sargeras...

The First Ones exist.

true, the first ones do exist and are seemingly quite powerful. however, if blizz wants to, they can easily turn it into a "creation became more powerful than creator" thing with the first ones and the titans. until we have some real info on them, i wouldnt include the first ones into the discussion too much, bc we know next to nothing yet.

the void lords, on the other hand, are definitely weaker than titans, AT LEAST until blizz decides to retcon that when their addon and time to shine comes.
chronicles mentions that
a) the void lords were "envious" of the titans power (which could mean either magical might or their ability to travel and influence our universe)
b) the void lords "pooled their resources" to create the old gods
c) sargeras knew about the void lords far earlier, but wasnt scared. what made him go batshit was a possible "void titan" who could potentially be ultra OP

all of that paints a pretty clear picture that the void lords, while powerful, arent quite titan level on their own.

all of that aside, i think azeroth herself is the most likely contender for "strongest being ever" at this point. shes seemingly so OP that she could overpower the void lords in the void itself, fel-powered sargeras, and everyone else. its why the whole universe wants to get their hands on her.
considering what the jailer said about a "final prize that the first ones tried to hide" and "death comes for the soul of your world" it sounds likely she is somehow connected to the first ones (possibly their masterpiece or smth)

[TheFirstOnes]

true, the first ones do exist and are seemingly quite powerful. however, if blizz wants to, they can easily turn it into a "creation became more powerful than creator" thing with the first ones and the titans. until we have some real info on them, i wouldnt include the first ones into the discussion too much, bc we know next to nothing yet.

the void lords, on the other hand, are definitely weaker than titans, AT LEAST until blizz decides to retcon that when their addon and time to shine comes.
chronicles mentions that
a) the void lords were "envious" of the titans power (which could mean either magical might or their ability to travel and influence our universe)
b) the void lords "pooled their resources" to create the old gods
c) sargeras knew about the void lords far earlier, but wasnt scared. what made him go batshit was a possible "void titan" who could potentially be ultra OP

all of that paints a pretty clear picture that the void lords, while powerful, arent quite titan level on their own.

all of that aside, i think azeroth herself is the most likely contender for "strongest being ever" at this point. shes seemingly so OP that she could overpower the void lords in the void itself, fel-powered sargeras, and everyone else. its why the whole universe wants to get their hands on her.
considering what the jailer said about a "final prize that the first ones tried to hide" and "death comes for the soul of your world" it sounds likely she is somehow connected to the first ones (possibly their masterpiece or smth)

They're likely not going to do this "creation beyond creator" thing with the Titans or anything. Like I said, I don't think the Titan's are all that powerful compared to everything else.

Also, regarding the Void Lords:

"a) the void lords were "envious" of the titans power (which could mean either magical might or their ability to travel and influence our universe)" They couldn't enter reality, while the Titan's could manipulate it, harness its power, etc etc without care. It was literally second nature to them, as they were born from astral energies of the Cosmos from the Plane of Order. No shit they were envious lol.

"b) the void lords "pooled their resources" to create the old gods" Tbf here, they just thought of it, and still had to tear holes in reality for them to even spread the Old Gods across the Multiverse to begin with.

"c) sargeras knew about the void lords far earlier, but wasnt scared. what made him go batshit was a possible "void titan" who could potentially be ultra OP" He not only knew barely anything about the Void, but he was also focused on the Demons, which were the most destructive threat at the time. He only knew about the threat from beyond when a Dreadlord serving the Void straight up told him about their power and what their corruption could do to a nascent world soul and it's might. And even then, that was probably a lie, considering the whole "Enemy Infiltration book" bullshit.

"AT LEAST until blizz decides to retcon that when their addon and time to shine comes." They're going to get retconned into something mega-powerful. You know they are lol

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Yeah, I know that my wish isn't reality. I just think it's lame adding new orders/being that are stronger than him.

Why? I think expanding upon the Warcraft Cosmology is cool.