A scalping buddy of mine selling consoles and people buying them like crazy.

[Draknalor186]

Why do people want these consoles now? even at double the price?

It's not like the PS5 is gonna disappear from the face of the earth in a month or 2.. just wait to get it.

[Jotaux]

this is fucking crazy...

You want to assault someone (an illegal act) because they bought up tickets a (not illegal) act.

This is a dumb take on any issue. Legality does not dictate morality.

[omeomorfismo]

Not exactly... not when we are talking about independents usually. A lot of these overpriced cards, for instance, are auctions where people themselves drive the cost up.

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They didn't say "and tax evasion is legal" they said "lol tax evasion is legal?" with a question mark...

Tax evasion is illegal there are statues on tax evasion.

Don't makeup arguments for people they didn't say. The way they said what they said seems to mean that they doubt the people reselling are reporting their sales.

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and see here this proves what his point was

You're trying to say that they probably aren't paying taxes but you literally do not know that.... in the USA if you sell something you can claim that you were an llc (which many of these resellers are) or a solo entity and then claim the profits at the end of the year. In an llc or sole proprietorship, your profits are part of your personal income although you can opt to be taxed like an s-corp for an llc.

So you were making assumptions based on Italian law.

assumption? if an ebay 750€ ps5 isnt linked with a seller with "P.IVA" then him is a tax evasors (until he is only selling 2 console, but then he wouldnt be a scalper). in EU the amount can change, but im pretty sure that in all the union what a scalper do is illegal.
in US who cares, enjoy your unregulation....

[Kinjin]

Snip

You keep making the straw man argument that something has to be illegal to not be wrong. Legality isn't the same as morality, which you clearly already know. It's a funny thing, the lengths that people will go through to salve their fragile little egos when they are committing or trying to justify bad behavior. But you do you princess.

[Forogil]

This is a dumb take on any issue. Legality does not dictate morality.

Exactly, and as previously stated it's more the reverse instead of legality dictating morality it's morality that dictates legality (well, obviously not strictly - but it's still that way it goes; we make laws against behaviour that we find morally wrong).

[Very Tired]

I don't much care for scalpers, but usually their existence equates to the original seller not charging nearly as much as people are willing to pay, especially considering the limited supply. Seems like an odd business choice on their end to not be making as money as they could.

[Themius]

They produce nothing, and demand excess for goods simply because THEY create supply shortfalls that idiots claim they alleviate. They are the epitome of every evil claimed to stem from capitalism, parasites that are so vile they make even that title seem too light.

So? Investment banks exist. They do not produce anything either they just facilitate.

"every evil of capitalism is the small man taking advantage of the system!" I don't buy it. Parasites? you want a graphics card that bad?

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This is a dumb take on any issue. Legality does not dictate morality.

You think attacking people for supply line issues and site development issues is moral?

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assumption? if an ebay 750€ ps5 isnt linked with a seller with "P.IVA" then him is a tax evasors (until he is only selling 2 console, but then he wouldnt be a scalper). in EU the amount can change, but im pretty sure that in all the union what a scalper do is illegal.
in US who cares, enjoy your unregulation....

That's literally not how it works here.

For small businesses collecting sales tax isn't on the seller but instead it is on the buyer to report they have bought something that they need to pay tax on.

For instance a small business selling goods to California from NJ doesn't need to collect tax, instead the buyer needs to report to the IRS that they bought something from NJ and didn't pay tax on it.

The exception is if the business does over 100k in business with California, then they need to collect California tax at the time of the sale.

The onus is on the buyer not the seller.

[Nihilist74]

Why do people want these consoles now? even at double the price?

It's not like the PS5 is gonna disappear from the face of the earth in a month or 2.. just wait to get it.

Probably best not get them on the first run anyway right? That's when they have glitches and not as many games are out for them?

[Themius]

You keep making the straw man argument that something has to be illegal to not be wrong. Legality isn't the same as morality, which you clearly already know. It's a funny thing, the lengths that people will go through to salve their fragile little egos when they are committing or trying to justify bad behavior. But you do you princess.

Driving up mask prices during a pandemic is reprehensible. But fucking graphic cards?! Please...


Did you miss this fucking part??????

fragile little egos to justify bad behaviour? What the fuck are you talking about I'm not selling graphics cards lol. and you dare talk about straw man?

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Probably best not get them on the first run anyway right? That's when they have glitches and not as many games are out for them?

This is what I do not understand

" scalpers are the most horrible scum pieces of shit that need to be assaulted!!! because they make me wait a few weeks or months to buy MY FRIVOLOUS CONSUMER ELECTORNICS"

[Mistame]

Exactly, and as previously stated it's more the reverse instead of legality dictating morality it's morality that dictates legality (well, obviously not strictly - but it's still that way it goes; we make laws against behaviour that we find morally wrong).

His logic is easily invalidated when one changes the subject to something that's not only not illegal, but legally protected, like slurs, etc. OT: While buying something and and then reselling it for an outrageous price for it isn't illegal, buying up products to the point of limited or no supply (especially via nefarious means, eg, bots, etc) and then charging people outrageous prices makes you a piece of shit. The same applies to people who buy in excess and/or refuse to wear a mask during a pandemic.

because they make me wait a few weeks or months to buy MY FRIVOLOUS CONSUMER ELECTORNICS"

Because they're using bots to buy up all the supply, making it nearly impossible to for most people to buy them. That alone makes them a piece of shit. Add on them doing it just to resell them for an outrageous price just makes them full-on piles of shit. And you keep using your little "frivolous consumer electronics" quip, but a lot of people use their graphics card as a means to make money, so that makes it a lot less "frivolous" than a lot of things, say, for example, emotional rants on a gaming forum.

[Themius]

I never realised there were people who defended scalping. Which is by its very nature exploitation.

It isn't exploration since frankly the people buying things at those crazy prices have the means to do so. When people bid up a graphics card to $800 that retails $300 who is being exploited? Casinos and lottery are exploitation far more so than... consumer electronic reselling at high prices. The prices they demand are also only high because there is a demand for that price point.

The issue the root of the issue are supply chain, and site issues.

Apple released an iPhone... one of the most popular phones with tons of sales, yet we do not see a supply chain issue being unable to keep up with demand...

Trying to say all resellers are evil is... just stupid imo. Do you think every person in the diamond industry is scum because they buy diamonds from manufacturers and then resell them? What about when for certain specifications there are very very very few diamonds and therefore it's easy to buy up their supply is that scummy and reprehensible?

Diamonds... like graphic cards are frivolous.

[Rustedsaint]

The only annoyance I have with scalping is the people who cheat the system to get large amounts of the desired items to sell,
Like the person a previous poster said was buying items to resell before they even got off the truck. And fuck all those scalpers who use bots.

[Themius]

His logic is easily invalidated when one changes the subject to something that's not only not illegal, but legally protected, like slurs, etc. OT: While buying something and and then reselling it for an outrageous price for it isn't illegal, buying up products to the point of limited or no supply (especially via nefarious means, eg, bots, etc) and then charging people outrageous prices makes you a piece of shit. The same applies to people who buy in excess and/or refuse to wear a mask during a pandemic.

You're comparing buying up graphic cards... to buying up masks in a pandemic... one of those things is important and doesn't contribute to the literal deaths of people talk about fucking hyperbole.

Why doesn't Apple have this problem? Why is it their supply chain is perfectly capable of handling this issue? Why is it that this major issue seems primialry to just be affecting NVIDIA?

At one point not long ago (2 years) NVIDIA claimed there was an issue concerning over supply of GPUS... do you think that frame of thought could be a clue as to why they're having supply chain issues now?

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The only annoyance I have with scalping is the people who cheat the system to get large amounts of the desired items to sell,
Like the person a previous poster said was buying items to resell before they even got off the truck. And fuck all those scalpers who use bots.

I don't have a problem with people buying things before they even get off the truck... stores do it all the time.

[omeomorfismo]

That's literally not how it works here.

For small businesses collecting sales tax isn't on the seller but instead it is on the buyer to report they have bought something that they need to pay tax on.

For instance a small business selling goods to California from NJ doesn't need to collect tax, instead the buyer needs to report to the IRS that they bought something from NJ and didn't pay tax on it.

The exception is if the business does over 100k in business with California, then they need to collect California tax at the time of the sale.

The onus is on the buyer not the seller.

interesting.. (not at all)
at least EU scalpers are criminal, like it or not....

[Themius]

interesting.. (not at all)
at least EU scalpers are criminal, like it or not....

Is it though? I only see stories on ticket scalping.

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Because they're using bots to buy up all the supply, making it nearly impossible to for most people to buy them. That alone makes them a piece of shit. Add on them doing it just to resell them for an outrageous price just makes them full-on piles of shit. And you keep using your little "frivolous consumer electronics" quip, but a lot of people use their graphics card as a means to make money, so that makes it a lot less "frivolous" than a lot of things, say, for example, emotional rants on a gaming forum.

These people are using graphic cards to make money... and these graphic cards just came out... typically if one is working professionally with GPUs they don't need a new upgrade every single year a new one comes out... it isn't an emergency purchase they need to make right away. They usually have a stable setup that allows them to work as new products come out, unless suddenly something goes down. In which case they either can go new and fancy or a year older and still great hence not affecting the business much.

Again this is an issue with supply chain and issue with NVIDIA. Do you think there stance that there were too many gpus in ciruculatio could have altered the way they decided to roll out gpus?

Why isn't this an issue for other major goods like say... iphones? There were heightened prices for about a week, after that everything was normal.

This issue right now seems to be a very very specific issue to NVIDIA.

[Mistame]

You're comparing buying up graphic cards... to buying up masks in a pandemic...

No, I'm not. Read it again.

Why doesn't Apple have this problem? Why is it their supply chain is perfectly capable of handling this issue?

Their demand isn't as high as their supply. This is basic logic.

Why is it that this major issue seems primialry to just be affecting NVIDIA?

It's not. It's affecting AMD, too. And while the issue is multi-faceted, it doesn't take away from the fact that buying up the stock of something just to resell it at exorbitant prices is shitty behavior, period.

These people are using graphic cards to make money... and these graphic cards just came out... typically if one is working professionally with GPUs they don't need a new upgrade every single year a new one comes out... it isn't an emergency purchase they need to make right away. They usually have a stable setup that allows them to work as new products come out, unless suddenly something goes down. In which case they either can go new and fancy or a year older and still great hence not affecting the business much.

In many cases, the limitations of their graphics cards affects their income, so upgrading to a more powerful version is in their best interest. Your insistence on dismissing the importance of these upgrades is stupid. Knock it off.

Again this is an issue with supply chain and issue with NVIDIA.

...

This issue right now seems to be a very very specific issue to NVIDIA.

No, it's not.

[Themius]

No, I'm not. Read it again.



Their demand isn't as high as their supply. This is basic logic.



It's not. It's affecting AMD, too. And while the issue is multi-faceted, it doesn't take away from the fact that buying up the stock of something just to resell it at exorbitant prices is shitty behavior, period.

The issue is affecting AMD to a lesser degree than NVIDIA. AMD isn't having nearly as bad a time as NVIDIA right now.

On top, no fucking shit about apple, why the fuck do you think I keep saying supply chain issue with NVIDIA they did a poor job of meeting demand.

Consider this, scalpers are able to charge extremely high prices because they bought up quite a lot of them, however, supply and demand still apply. Scalpers have only been able to hold onto them and sell them because... there is still high demand while there are still demand issues. If there was a higher supply then prices would be forced to go down but prices aren't going down as they do not have to go down.

Why don't prices have to go down? Well because the supply is currently strangled.

Now being that this was a known thing that would happen over a year before the release of any new card, why wasn't this accounted for from the very beginning? Why didn't websites ensure they weren't selling 100 cards to a single entity? It doesn't seem they cared all that much...

Apple has extremely high demand, and extremely high supply. I have no clue what kind of structure NVIDIA uses, but Apple uses a just in time model where days in inventory can be quite low.

Total Inventories can be measured by Days Sales of Inventory (DSI). NVIDIA's days sales of inventory (DSI) for the three months ended in Oct. 2020 was 27.96.

For apple:

Days Inventory indicates the number of days of goods in sales that a company has in the inventory. Apple's Days Inventory for the three months ended in Sep. 2020 was 9.17.

It takes NVIDIA three times as long to move their inventory. That could be why there is such a difference beyond "it's just demand isn't as high for apple" it's likely that apple can move shit out of their inventory 3x faster.

Apple uses just in time and typically flies shit all over the world which is expensive but cheaper than moving them other ways given the high demand... moving them any other way would lead to bottlenecks.

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In many cases, the limitations of their graphics cards affects their income, so upgrading to a more powerful version is in their best interest. Your insistence on dismissing the importance of these upgrades is stupid. Knock it off.



No, it's not.

Oh please, get off the high fucking horse.

Do you not know how companies fucking work? Or small businesses? Do you think they're all on the verge of collapse if they must wait a month to get a brand new newly released graphics card???

Any company one graphics card away from collapse isn't stable, to begin with, and if it were such a huge issue, the cloud exists for a reason.

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Let's see what NVIDIA had to say:

The demand for the GeForce RTX 3080 was truly unprecedented. We and our partners underestimated it.

The GeForce RTX 3080 is in full production. We began shipping GPUs to our partners in August, and have been increasing the supply weekly. Partners are also ramping up capacity to meet the unprecedented demand. We understand that many gamers are unable to buy a GeForce RTX 3080 right now and we are doing everything we can to catch up quickly. Keep checking in with your favorite retailer to be notified of availability. You may use the GeForce RTX 3080 product finder to find available cards at local retailers.

Note here, that going by their DSI if they are sold out it takes NVIDIA 27 days just to move them out of inventory. 27 days to move them out to then have them moved to a store where you then need to buy it for it to be moved out again. So easily a month if you assume 2 days from the day bought shipping.

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I saw individuals who use bots/scripts celebrating the purchase of multiple GeForce RTX 3080 GPUs! Did bots get all of the available supply?

No. While individuals using bots may have shown images of email inboxes filled with confirmed orders, NVIDIA has cancelled hundreds of orders manually before they were able to ship.

[omeomorfismo]

Is it though? I only see stories on ticket scalping.

they stock many console, they can sell (in italy) at max 3 (4 without making any profit) of them.
then or they are tax evading, or they are losing money (so they would be grinches not scalpers). not many options....

[Mistame]

Consider this...

I already stated that the issue is multi-faceted. But we're talking specifically about scalpers. Anyone who buys up supply and sells it at exorbitant prices is a piece of shit. Period. That's all. Your opinions and arguments to the contrary are irrelevant.

Do you not know how companies fucking work?

No one is talking about companies. You really should see someone about your need to create a point to argue against. Straw-manning yourself is disconcerting, to say the least.

[Forogil]

If you are in the US you can try to convince your representatives to support "H.R.7160 - Stopping Grinch Bots Act of 2018", or similar legislature.