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Original thread 10 minutes after Covenants were announced
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...nts-now/348779
and now the results:
https://www.wowhead.com/news=319716/...io#wowranks-io
https://wowranks.io/stats
As has been predicted from the day this feature was announced even with heavy nerfs people would have to be willing to purposely gimp themselves in PVP and PVE just for an aesthetic choice. Once Raider IO takes over the expansions tomorrow this will get far worse not including raiding.
Out of the source information I can count 10 specs (not at 50% concentrated) that have an option on what they want to play but some of those are before impending nerfs that will force the players to optimize their Covenant choices.
Why Blizzard why did you do this? For those of you enjoying the expansion I say great and have fun but the freight train is coming in the form of FARRRR more power unlocks, gear scaling making the differences far more stark and far more access to meaningful abilities.
Update 12/11/2020:
So because changing the Covenants screws everyone tada here come the nerfs. If only there had been people who pointed out this mess. The core issue is the stacking nature of the multiples systems that noone with 2 brain predicted would be balanced. Literally the only thing these class changes accomplish is further cementing Covenant imbalance because it scales.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...-dec-15/771191
Recent Forum Posts
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2020-12-07, 08:07 PM #1Immortal
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As I feared a few minutes after Covenants were announced....it will get worse
Last edited by Puremallace; 2020-12-12 at 03:17 AM.
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2020-12-07, 08:12 PM #2Herald of the Titans
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Numbers change, looks don't (not in video games anyway). I wouldn't worry about it.
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2020-12-07, 08:14 PM #3Honorary PvM "Mod"
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Some people may feel that way. I personally don't, I took the covenant I identified with most even though I will be raiding.
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2020-12-07, 08:16 PM #4Epic!
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Doesnt matter unless you are doing world first.
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2020-12-07, 08:16 PM #5High Overlord
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Ugh - You made me have to log in.
Very simply solutions for 90% of the instances regarding play how you want to.
A. Have a guild or friends that don't care - play how you want to.
B. Search for maybe 20% more time and you will find the desired groups; or do more content to break the "min/max barriers"
C. If you are part of the "1%ers at the very top" which I assume you are given you have your Raider.io scores in your signatures - the pick the covenant you hate the most and make a blog post about it so you get clicks, comments, and other people to complain with you.... wait...
Here is hoping you're all having fun in Shadowlands like I am. Been having a lot of fun with the Covenants I picked based on what I like!
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2020-12-07, 08:22 PM #6Brewmaster
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i chose necrolord because i'm an edgelord. i was originally going to go night fae with my bm hunter but even though the dps is better, i just don't like the zone. it was literally the questing experience that changed my mind. i wanted to pick MY covenant. i know full well that because i am a necrolord for bm, i am subpar and in the vast minority (sub 5% of all bm hunters). i love how ion and his team of idiot managers kept going on and on about meaningful choice and yet they don't freaking understand what makes a choice meaningful. the only choice they see as meaningful is power and that's because they came from an elite raiding background.
ion has no clue how to make a game with meaningful choices. i'm not saying he should be fired but at the very least, ion needs to be replaced as the lead dev.
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2020-12-07, 08:24 PM #7Immortal
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1. To choose a Covenant because of looks means during raid, mythic or pvp you are purposely choosing to gimp your team. On DPS check bosses or any boss for that matter this is easily the difference between an easy kill or struggling for 4+ hours.
Originally Posted by Holycloud
2. These numbers prove that far more then min/maxxrs care about optimizing their specs. That argument has been wrong from the day I made this thread and has always been wrong since day 1 of WoW. Nobody picks up WoW and intentionally tries to be subpar and non competitive.
3. No. Signatures are very limited on this site compared to what they used to be and this information is there. As an FYI I have not touched Shadowlands since launch due to this fear of pigeonholing and constantly never being able to optimize my class while also playing the Covenant that I wanted. Paladin for example if forced into Kyrian but I would personally prefer to play Revendreth but I would bein purposely gimpimg any group I entered and wasting my time on renown in the long run that gives me meaningless returns compared to someone who picked Kyrian because they saw it on Icy Veins.
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2020-12-07, 08:27 PM #8Void Lord
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No shit it was going to happen, not really a bad thing. Guides and mass information has been the norm since forever. Even if they were all cosmetic stuff, someone would rate one higher for "reasons."
#TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde
Warrior-Magi
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2020-12-07, 08:27 PM #9The Insane
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I ain't a mix/max'er... so I don't care, yet have no problems doing Mythic Raiding... I ain't a bleeding edge runner for world first, and most of us aren't either so...
What I hate about Covenants though are the rare drops that drop only for specific covenants, such as Hopecrusher Gargon [Venthyr] or Trophy of the Reborn Bonelord [Necrolords]... so if you're a collector you're forced to have alts :/
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2020-12-07, 08:27 PM #10Field Marshal
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Similar to how you would have to gimp yourself in pvp/pve when you pick a class that isn't top 5 I guess Originally Posted by Puremallace
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2020-12-07, 08:32 PM #11Brewmaster
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name checks out. Also why not wait a bit and see how things work instead of crapping on an entire expac not even a month after release? Originally Posted by Puremallace
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2020-12-07, 08:33 PM #12Mechagnome
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Thanks for sharing this website, it's pretty useful!
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2020-12-07, 08:33 PM #13Epic!
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This literally only affects top world cutting edge. I know and am in a mythic raid group. We will clear the raid like we do every tier.. We also told people to pick what they want. Originally Posted by Puremallace
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2020-12-07, 08:39 PM #14Legendary!
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over 75% of frost dks disagree with you, as they did not choose night fae which is when it comes to performance best... actualy, most (almost 40%) chosen necrolords, who are thematicaly best fit but worst when it comes to performance... Originally Posted by Puremallace
cant realy speak for other classes as i dont play them so i dont check their meta, but i really doubt everyone but frost DKs chosen their "best" covenant and ignored theme/aesthetics of their class...
so it seems people who care about performance are in minority, and hence people who have chosen on other criteria will have no issue finding groups... same as we didnt have any issue finding groups with "underperforming" specs for 16 years now...
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if you check his character you will find out he did not log in since a prepatch (or actualy longer given his nazjatar gear), but he sure knows more about whats hapening ingame than people who actualy play and see the differences between covenants are minimal and can be ignored unless you go for hall of fame... Originally Posted by Utrrabbit
very bad troll, i give him 2/10Last edited by Lolites; 2020-12-07 at 08:42 PM.
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2020-12-07, 08:40 PM #15Mechagnome
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Lol. Originally Posted by Lolites
/10chars
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2020-12-07, 08:42 PM #16Stood in the Fire
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This is the bit I think you clearly don't seem to get. A lot of people really don't care about relative performance, and play this game for the aesthetics and other fun, not dungeon or raid performance. Originally Posted by Puremallace
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2020-12-07, 08:43 PM #17Over 9000!
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This is also very important to keep in mind. I raid/dungeon Holy paladin so I picked Kyrian obviously since Divine Toll is just so much better than any of the other abilities due to the synergy with glimmer build. However, Venthyr is better on ret (the spec I use for PVP and world quests). If I log off as ret, this chart will show that I'm a ret with Kyrian covenant which isn't necessarily 100% accurate."It is important to note however, that due to the API, there may be minor discrepancies in the data as players who are a certain Covenant for one spec, may change specs to perform another activity like World Quests and log out as that spec. This will likely cause larger discrepancies for specs which have a Tank or Healer offspec. For an example, Shadow Priests choosing Venthyr and Retribution Paladins choosing Kyrian may show percentages that are higher than intended as Discipline Priests or Holy/Prot Paladin may be swapping DPS for World Quests and logging off as that spec."Last edited by GreenJesus; 2020-12-07 at 08:48 PM.
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2020-12-07, 08:53 PM #18Pandaren Monk
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WoW is entertainment, I'm not going to pick a covenant that I think is ugly even though it may be the best for my class. Happily that seems to be true for only one of my toons.
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2020-12-07, 08:53 PM #19The Gnome Smasher
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I fail to see a problem here.
Originally Posted by Kaleredar
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2020-12-07, 08:56 PM #20Legendary!
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not sure whats so funy about that... Originally Posted by Ivank0v
for pve, its weak option for aoe and kind of useless for single target
for pvp its mildly useful (if your oponent is rly bad), but still pretty weak... i mean literaly every caster have something to get out of it and melees can use it against you...
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i do see problem, someone who didnt play in quite some time is telling us, who actualy play the game that reality is wrong, and his ideas he got without playing are right, despite being in conflict with reality... Originally Posted by oplawlz
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